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HMS ENTERPRISE 1774 by RichardJJS 1:48 scale. New Kit from M.D

AllanKP69 said:
FWIW, some of us find your questions and concerns enlightening rather than exhausting. :) :) While MD appears to be one of the top, if not THE top quality kit maker, there may sometimes be things that need to be clarified.

Apologies for bringing it up again but the sizes of the mast steps are all in the contract and the locations on the contemporary drawing ZAZ3383. https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-83174

MIZEN STEP ….. The Mizen Step to be sided 14 ½ ins, of sufficient Depth on the Keelson, The Arms 5ft 6ins long each, & bolted with 6 bolts of 1 ⅛ diar.
MAIN STEP ….. The main Step to be sided 1 ft 11 ins and 15 ins deep on the Keelson and of a length to slide easy by the Stantions of the Well.
FORE STEP ….. The Fore Step to be sided 1 ft 9 ins, in Length 10 ft 6 ins, bolted 6 bolts of 1 ⅛ dia'r

Allan
Click to expand...
I am sorry if i am exhausting but i am having real problems. I build a Panart Victory 45 years ago when only the main frame was jig sawed
and the plans where well basic but 100 times better than the Billings Norsk LOve
Using only LOngridge and photos I took of the entire ship it was valued bu the National Maritime Museum im Greenridge at 10,000 THEN and sold at Christies for just under 5k but I now, like Keef am struggling with disability and Old Timers Desease
ALL your help is really appreciated


My questions are genuine and hopefully MAY!! help others in the build
Even Victor agreed with my suggestion of Marking the top of the plans with the top of that AMAZING jig
I really dont need a breakdown of the real thing - must admit i had removed the middle section of the Mizzen step (It had come away from the frame) now found (I aways find the part AFTER ive asked )
What I would like is CLEAR positioning of the critical parts like the steps as they must be in exactly the right place if we ever see te Masts and Rigging and this should be on the plan
If we build up to the Mast Supports higher up the bulld the step could be a few mm out and stop it shipping exactly
I TOTALLY agree about the Quality of the Kit which is why i have not given up
 
richardjjs said:
What I would like is CLEAR positioning of the critical parts like the steps as they must be in exactly the right place if we ever see te Masts and Rigging and this should be on the plan
Click to expand...
Regarding asking questions, ASK ALL YOU WANT. Many of us learn from the questions and answers of other members and do not find it to be at all exhausting.

Don't the kit plans show exactly where they go? If not, why not use the contemporary inboard profile drawing from RMG?
ZAZ3383 https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-83174

Allan
 
AllanKP69 said:
Regarding asking questions, ASK ALL YOU WANT. Many of us learn from the questions and answers of other members and do not find it to be at all exhausting.

Don't the kit plans show exactly where they go? If not, why not use the contemporary inboard profile drawing from RMG?
ZAZ3383 https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-83174

Allan
Click to expand...
I have to agree with Richard a little bit here. They have nice side view drawings, but none from above (except for the deck support timber plans) or front and rear views. There have been a few instances where additional views would have helped me.
 
It's not you Richard, it is the same on the 1:96 scale. The plans and instructions are a considerable challenge, especially for a relative newby like me. I see it as a steep learning curve that I intend to succeed on. Unicorn models was ten times clearer.
 
RichardG said:
It's not you Richard, it is the same on the 1:96 scale. The plans and instructions are a considerable challenge, especially for a relative newby like me. I see it as a steep learning curve that I intend to succeed on. Unicorn models was ten times clearer.
Click to expand...
trying to find pear wood 4 x 4 strips no one even knows what i am talking about in uk
 
Ive started preparing the Lower DEck Beams so i can make sure the Partitions under neath are exactly in the right place

Do the beams sit on the top Inner planking because i cant at the moment get the hanging beams too fit into the frame they are proud

no doubt it will come right as soo as i ask

Ive built Frame 10 and 9

Willl take photos tomorrow -
JUst temp at the moment
 
richardjjs said:
Do the beams sit on the top Inner planking because i cant at the moment get the hanging beams too fit into the frame they are proud
Click to expand...

Hi Richard,
The beams rest on the strakes of deck clamps not the regular planking. For Enterprise the clamps were about 14'' broad and 5" thick for the lower deck. This is compared to the planking adjacent which was closer to 3" thick thus the deck clamp forms what is essentially a shelf. There was at least one strake, many time two strakes, for each deck, but for simple support just one on the model will work that is about 1" to 1.5" thicker than the adjacent planking. The clamp information is on the contract from 1776 for her sister ship Aurora which is below in case you have not already downloaded it.

The clamp thickness compared to the adjacent planking can be seen clearly on a number of contemporary cross section drawings at the RMG Collections website.

Allan
 

Attachments

richardjjs said:
Ive started preparing the Lower DEck Beams so i can make sure the Partitions under neath are exactly in the right place

Do the beams sit on the top Inner planking because i cant at the moment get the hanging beams too fit into the frame they are proud

no doubt it will come right as soo as i ask

Ive built Frame 10 and 9

Willl take photos tomorrow -
JUst temp at the moment
Click to expand...
As Tim said, Look at step 63 and it shows the beams sitting on top of the "inner planking". :)
 
DRAFT
THis is the problem
Can you see how the hanging knee is away from the Frame

I am going to buld the same Beam for the Gun Deck to see if its the same

If it it is OK We will not be able to see that lower Hangin Knee (Wonder what the last few Non "Hanging" Kneees Will Do Might lake up one of those


20251213_102307[1].jpg
 
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richardjjs said:
DRAFT
THis is the problem
Can you see how the hanging knee is away from the Frame

I am going to buld the same Beam for the Gun Deck to see if its the same

If it it is OK We will not be able to see that lower Hangin Knee (Wonder what the last few Non "Hanging" Kneees Will Do Might lake up one of those


View attachment 563363
Click to expand...
All the knees are somewhat tricky, you need to alter them a fair amount with taper, bevel, notches for deck clamps to fit close to the frames as well as following top of beams.
Your image, for instance, the notch of the knee needs to be re cut to allow for the deck clamp.
Doesn't take a lot of time to bring it in closer to the frame
 
Corsair said:
As Tim said, Look at step 63 and it shows the beams sitting on top of the "inner planking". :)
Click to expand...
They are Fitting on top the Thick Stuff
so no inner planking
Photo shows the the Hanging Knees are away from the FRames
So need to .Adjust the Lower DEck Hanging knees

So ive prepared a Gun Deck Hanging Knee and It (k!)needs a much deeper slot for the Thick Stuff and a thin slot for the Inner Planking below the Thick Stuff

not happy with quality of my work but might be getting there
first picture id lower deck hanging knee

second is gun deck hanging knee
What is really needed (I think) is the knees fitted on JUST the Thick Stuff and then fill with LOwer Inner PLanking) which would be fitted AFTER the knees but not sure it is possible

20251213_102307[1].jpg

IMG_20251213_163133[1].jpg
 
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it helps ME to post what i am doing as it them seems to come together
I am building the first few Beams and Knees on theModel

Seems to be easier
Hanging Knees are NOT touching the Frames but they are close
Will add the DEck Supports as I go
Need more 4 x4
May need to use some darker stuff i have in stock #
 
Ive started fitting the Beams
Now making them as i fit them It means I can get it as near rightas possible
The Hanging Knees are still away from the Frame
I think Once Ive fitted Beam 3 I can get the Fore SEction in exactly the correct place Using Its uprights as Uprights
Then Beam 4
It looking easier that way
 
Your build, can go in any fashion you choose but FWIW, I think for lower deck, you want to fit knees, etc. every single beam as you move through hull......far easier and everything remains tight.
That was my experience.

Tim
 
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