initial Soleil royal using the heller 1/100 scale kit (post prepared in advance)

Hubac’s Historian said:
The RL 1692 portrait
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Ok; just bare in mind that there are doubts as to whether it was Puget who did that drawing; Jean Buodriot wrote that though it is labeled under the ''Puget dossier'' at the museum, it doesn't correspond to his way of drawing ships;
The ship on the drawing is vertically a bit squished and elongated; his view is that the true owner of that drawing would have been Bernard Turreau, or ''toro'', who was one of the master sculpters in Brest at that period; he was the son of Pierre Turreau, or ''Toro'' who was one of the sculpters who worked on the ship.
Boudriot also mentions that puget would never draw a ship sideways unless there was another one, sometimes the same ship, showing either the bow or the stern. Puget drew ships in a perspective view if it was to be the only one in view.
There is also an issue with the timeframe; Puget was carving his Alexandre and Diogene marble and also his Plague of Marseille, in Marseille during the 1693 period. He hadn't been anywhere close to the arsenals in years. He died in 1694 before he could finish his work; the ship was finished in August 1693, in Brest...
I know what you're thinking:))) But I don't want you to make a mistake before you at least know some information:)))
 
Guy, I got a question on the scenario page 70 to 73: Can they be mixed? Per example, the bas-relief from 72 mixed with the mouldings and white hull from 73?
Thanks, I wonder if one can't reproduced what tanneron did on the quarter gallerys in resin, then add it to the hull.
 
So, you would want the coat of arms from the middle deck and the top decors from the top deck on a white hull?
You choose any combination you want but it will look a bit crowded on the hull and not something they would have done in the days...
Of the 6 carvings on each side of the interior of the galleries, ther are 4 whixh are coat of arms; the ones in the corners.
I think for a person to be able to handle some sculpting and mold resin parts it is feasable; if you want someone to do it, you would need to ask around; if you decide to cut away the bottles' closed format and use the symbols, you would need to carve them out of the plastic backing, then produce a negative by carving some flat piece of material usually used for molding, then work the resin to fill that carving;
There are 13 spaces on each side, so 26 in all and 6 &7 of each coat of arms distributed in an equal alternate pattern....
Now, if you leave the ones inside the galleries, ad the ones on the second deck planking AND leave the decor on the top cannon deck planking, it will definitely be overcrowded.....
 
Yes they were, but not in that way....There was decoration around the gun ports but not in between; only the second deck had the coat of arms and the ports decorated, although less the the top row....
 
The document said that between the gun ports of the 2nd battery, the marine trophy and anchor/shovell (?, it's pèles page 29 of the description, not sure of its english meaning) when those of the 3rd had leaves mouldings with "griffons". When I said édecorated", I didn't meant they were the same way.
 
You would need to visualize the whole decor in one glance to understand; go to page 47 of the document where the RoyalLouis is shown in a drawing by Puget; It will give you a better idea; then go to page 61, and you will get a clue of what type of decor there was on the ship; it isn't the same since that is a representation of the front of the second Royal Louis it is thought, but it will give you ideas....
That pages describes the decoration on the stern with the triton statues...
 
I saw them and on the dauphin royal from page 47, the windows observed on tanneron model is present on the drawing.I still think doing what michel saulnier did would still be valid for a 1669 SR
 
What he did for the moldings on the 3rd battery, I intend to take inspiration of that.
simula11.jpg

The build of mr saulnier: https://5500.forumactif.org/t2944p875-le-soleil-royal-au-1-48-par-michel-saunier
This will be helpful for the flags:
tableau-des-pavillons-et-bannic3a8res-que-la-plus-part-des-nations-arborent-c3a0-la-mer.jpg

source:
troisponts.net

Les pavillons de la marine sous l’Ancien Régime

« On appelle Pavillons, des bannières faites d’étoffes légères, communément d’étamines, flottantes au gré du vent, attachées à un bâton élevé sur la poupe du vaisseau, qui servent …
troisponts.net troisponts.net
 
The royal louis was described with "cadre de feuillage" on its 2nd battery page 29, I'll see what's written in the SR document. I like what you did on your moldings and will do what you did for the rear guns. I wonder why tanneron removed one and didn't fellowed the berain/vary drawing who show a verry different arrangement (one of the reason I don't think the tanneron SR is a 100% the second one btw). Your white, blue, black and ocre look good too.
 
aurélien wolff said:
The royal louis was described with "cadre de feuillage" on its 2nd battery page 29, I'll see what's written in the SR document. I like what you did on your moldings and will do what you did for the rear guns. I wonder why tanneron removed one and didn't fellowed the berain/vary drawing who show a verry different arrangement (one of the reason I don't think the tanneron SR is a 100% the second one btw). Your white, blue, black and ocre look good too.
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In my view Tanneron never wanted to make the refit or the second Soleil Royal; my feeling is that his mandate at the time was to reproduce the very first ship with the document he had access to at the time. The reason the hull reflects the 1693 Soleil Royal is because, except for the 5 feet or so, the shape and dimensions as a whole were quite similar, and once reduced to the 1/40th scale it becomes very small. the only part which does not respect the second ship is the higher upper rear part. The assumption from all that this is a representation of the Berain ship is totally wrong.....
 
GuyM said:
In my view Tanneron never wanted to make the refit or the second Soleil Royal; my feeling is that his mandate at the time was to reproduce the very first ship with the document he had access to at the time. The reason the hull reflects the 1693 Soleil Royal is because, except for the 5 feet or so, the shape and dimensions as a whole were quite similar, and once reduced to the 1/40th scale it becomes very small. the only part which does not respect the second ship is the higher upper rear part. The assumption from all that this is a representation of the Berain ship is totally wrong.....
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There is nothing mentionned for some second battery decor anywhere, and since Dassie mentionned that the ship's general look was more subdued, one can assume there might not have been any in the end, although I suppose that on the very original Le Brun scenario there must have been some....
 
So the SR was sober than the royal louis. On Tanneron, yeah, he might've had not access to all documents we have and he did take a lot of artistic licenses. The chase gun being missing is a argument I've seen by those who say tanneron did the 2nd one, but at the same time, he made the stern verry different from the berain drawings (that I think heller had access to since the figurehead look like the one on the drawings, not sure why they choosed to not adapt what berain did on their SR, budget? time constraint?)
 
aurélien wolff said:
So the SR was sober than the royal louis. On Tanneron, yeah, he might've had not access to all documents we have and he did take a lot of artistic licenses. The chase gun being missing is a argument I've seen by those who say tanneron did the 2nd one, but at the same time, he made the stern verry different from the berain drawings (that I think heller had access to since the figurehead look like the one on the drawings, not sure why they choosed to not adapt what berain did on their SR, budget? time constraint?)
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My guess is that it was easier to measure, photograph and take note of the details from a real model than simple drawings; you don't get to measure well in three dimensions on a drawing:) the rest of the decor is an interpretation by taking cues from the refit ship drawings and its figurehead since the very first figurehead drawing is not available....There is a new wood model kit from Artesania Latina which represents the Soleil Royal in the refit Berain version......
 
GuyM said:
My guess is that it was easier to measure, photograph and take note of the details from a real model than simple drawings; you don't get to measure well in three dimensions on a drawing:) the rest of the decor is an interpretation by taking cues from the refit ship drawings and its figurehead since the very first figurehead drawing is not available....There is a new wood model kit from Artesania Latina which represents the Soleil Royal in the refit Berain version......
Click to expand...
Remember Tanneron based his hull on the second 1693 Soleil Royal dimensions and cannon number from 1705..... No chase port were cut at that time.....
 
A thing I wonder about the SR representation, why do so many of them paint the 3rd battery blue? Is it based on one of the louis XV model?
LouisXV_Musee.jpg
 
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