Integration of 3D Modeling and Printing of plastic details into Wooden Ship Model Construction (HMS Victory | Cutter Alert) by Serikoff

[Huc Bernard]

Je n'ai jamais réussi à imprimer plus finement. Au-delà, ça casse.

 

[Jack Sparrow]

c'est beau

 

[Philski]

I think they would print ok with a decent resin printer.

So, this morning, I drew a belaying pin in Fusion 360 totally freehand, not to any spec. Just eyeballed it. I can add accuracy and detail later. I then created and STL file of the pin and took it into my 3D Slicer. (Anycubic Workshop). I scaled the pin to 30mm and then scaled another down to 4mm and put them side by side. They would print. Maybe after I try doing a couple of different replicas of pins and scaled them to a few different sizes, I might try printing some and see what happens. I would choose a resin that is tough and can create detail - most likely Craftsman DLP resin (it has an amount of ceramic in it too). There are other resins that would provide flexibility and toughness too.

 

[Jack Sparrow]

So, this morning, I drew a belaying pin in Fusion 360 totally freehand, not to any spec. Just eyeballed it. I can add accuracy and detail later. I then created and STL file of the pin and took it into my 3D Slicer. (Anycubic Workshop). I scaled the pin to 30mm and then scaled another down to 4mm and put them side by side. They would print. Maybe after I try doing a couple of different replicas of pins and scaled them to a few different sizes, I might try printing some and see what happens. I would choose a resin that is tough and can create detail - most likely Craftsman DLP resin (it has an amount of ceramic in it too). There are other resins that would provide flexibility and toughness too.View attachment 500928

I wonder how many you can print at the same time? That would be something to look at, I think.

 

[Jack Sparrow]

Until I win a lottery I’ve given up on that. I bought a budget handheld model last year but sold it on within a few months. Nowhere near sophisticated enough for our game. I imagine pro-quality gear does a better job but suspect you would still need to put in many hours converting the scan if dimensional accuracy mattered (which it did for me).

I need to sit down and see what I can do with it. Right now it`s in a box collecting dust...

 

[Huc Bernard]

I wonder how many you can print at the same time? That would be something to look at, I think.

 

[Philski]

I wonder how many you can print at the same time? That would be something to look at, I think.

a bunch! and I would probably print a range of sizes.

 

[Philski]

So I redrew a pin then printed a few. I took a few pictures with my SLR camera and will work on those tomorrow. But I grabber a couple of pics with this Galaxy tablet. Show here. I started with 25mm, then down to 20, 15, 10 5 and even 4mm. In keeping with scale tge 4 and 5mm pins are very small and the pins themselves, to scale are about as thick as a human hair. I do't know how you would ever wrap rigging around such a tiny pin. These pics do not show the smallest pins - I'll show them here tomorrow.

 

[Kevin the Lubber]

When I printed them, the problem was not in the printing itself, but in the fact that if the thickness of the part is 0.1-0.2 mm, it can deform and bend during the final processing (while raw) and break (after exposure), so you need to intentionally slightly increase some parts for reinforcement and for banal visualization, since very small details will not be visible on the model.

I wanted to come back to this. Parts can shrink and deform both during printing and post-processing. In my experience, most of the shrinkage occurs during printing and, if dimensional accuracy is critical, you need to play with the xyz scale settings in your slicer once you know, from a test print, what's happening. Be aware that shrinkage is not necessarily uniform, it depends on factors such as the object shape and design, orientation on the print plate, nature and extent of supports, even resin temperature, so you may need to make different adjustments for each axis. And of course this can have you chasing your tail.

I have found that it is best to process thin section prints immediately after the print sequence has completed. Leaving ultra-thin things to sit on the plate for a couple of hours, perhaps as a way of letting the wet resin drain off, can lead to distortion. Even the breeze from the printer fan can cause thin sections of wet resin to deform.

Parts can also deform during cleanup. I do my IPA wash sequence while the parts are still attached to the plate. Small parts are bound to get damaged if they are rattling around in the cage. It also cleans up the plate for later use.

I mix resins to try to get the properties I most need for a part. Typically, I mix standard resin with ABS-like to get more rigidity but still with enough flex. I find standard resin is usually too brittle and elegoo ABS is too bendy, but a blend gives a nice result. Ultra-fine parts are always going to be very fragile though. For window bars or lattices, adding 'glass' can help.

 

[Philski]

I wanted to come back to this. Parts can shrink and deform both during printing and post-processing. In my experience, most of the shrinkage occurs during printing and, if dimensional accuracy is critical, you need to play with the xyz scale settings in your slicer once you know, from a test print, what's happening. Be aware that shrinkage is not necessarily uniform, it depends on factors such as the object shape and design, orientation on the print plate, nature and extent of supports, even resin temperature, so you may need to make different adjustments for each axis. And of course this can have you chasing your tail.

I have found that it is best to process thin section prints immediately after the print sequence has completed. Leaving ultra-thin things to sit on the plate for a couple of hours, perhaps as a way of letting the wet resin drain off, can lead to distortion. Even the breeze from the printer fan can cause thin sections of wet resin to deform.

Parts can also deform during cleanup. I do my IPA wash sequence while the parts are still attached to the plate. Small parts are bound to get damaged if they are rattling around in the cage. It also cleans up the plate for later use.

I mix resins to try to get the properties I most need for a part. Typically, I mix standard resin with ABS-like to get more rigidity but still with enough flex. I find standard resin is usually too brittle and elegoo ABS is too bendy, but a blend gives a nice result. Ultra-fine parts are always going to be very fragile though. For window bars or lattices, adding 'glass' can help.

I find that calibration for each resin helps. These boxes were printed at 2X and as you can see, they're dimensionally stable. They have been washed and cured.

So I redrew a pin then printed a few. I took a few pictures with my SLR camera and will work on those tomorrow. But I grabber a couple of pics with this Galaxy tablet. Show here. I started with 25mm, then down to 20, 15, 10 5 and even 4mm. In keeping with scale tge 4 and 5mm pins are very small and the pins themselves, to scale are about as thick as a human hair. I do't know how you would ever wrap rigging around such a tiny pin. These pics do not show the smallest

So I redrew a pin then printed a few. I took a few pictures with my SLR camera and will work on those tomorrow. But I grabber a couple of pics with this Galaxy tablet. Show here. I started with 25mm, then down to 20, 15, 10 5 and even 4mm. In keeping with scale tge 4 and 5mm pins are very small and the pins themselves, to scale are about as thick as a human hair. I do't know how you would ever wrap rigging around such a tiny pin. These pics do not show the smallest pins - I'll show them here tomorrow.View attachment 501155View attachment 501156

Printed a few in different sizes. size was adjusted in my slicer by changing the scale. The slicer allows me to change scale while maintaining proportionality in all 3 axis if I so choose. I printed 25, 20, 15, 10 5, and 4mm's. One picture shows the belaying pins as printed on the build plate, the other pictures removed from the plate and photographed. Note: while I did print at least 10 each, not many of the 4mm and 5mm pins survived the scraping off the build plate. I can change the exposure times to make them more robust (rigid) but this run is only a test to see what happens. I think that when needed to print the very small sizes (5mm or less) it might be better to print the entire pin rail with pins installed as one piece. And I cannot imagine needed to actually rig to the smaller pins on a model while using the smallest pins to actually secure the ropes. Let me know what you think.

 

[serikoff]

I wanted to come back to this. Parts can shrink and deform both during printing and post-processing. In my experience, most of the shrinkage occurs during printing and, if dimensional accuracy is critical, you need to play with the xyz scale settings in your slicer once you know, from a test print, what's happening. Be aware that shrinkage is not necessarily uniform, it depends on factors such as the object shape and design, orientation on the print plate, nature and extent of supports, even resin temperature, so you may need to make different adjustments for each axis. And of course this can have you chasing your tail.

I have found that it is best to process thin section prints immediately after the print sequence has completed. Leaving ultra-thin things to sit on the plate for a couple of hours, perhaps as a way of letting the wet resin drain off, can lead to distortion. Even the breeze from the printer fan can cause thin sections of wet resin to deform.

Parts can also deform during cleanup. I do my IPA wash sequence while the parts are still attached to the plate. Small parts are bound to get damaged if they are rattling around in the cage. It also cleans up the plate for later use.

I mix resins to try to get the properties I most need for a part. Typically, I mix standard resin with ABS-like to get more rigidity but still with enough flex. I find standard resin is usually too brittle and elegoo ABS is too bendy, but a blend gives a nice result. Ultra-fine parts are always going to be very fragile though. For window bars or lattices, adding 'glass' can help.

Thanks for the advice. I already figured it all out through trial and error, but thanks anyway.

 

[serikoff]

In this post, I'd like to share the results of 3D modeling metal parts for the Alert 1777 cutter model.

All these parts will be 3D printed and copper-plated, followed by a blackening.

I discuss galvanization (copper coating of plastic) in more detail here >>>.

I'll cover the modeling, printing, and preparation in more detail in the next post.

The modeling results, in three parts, are available at the links below: Part 1/3

HMS Alert [1777] 1:48 POF by serikoff. (Two hulls: skeleton and fully rigged)

Thank you, friends, for your activity. Thank you, @Charlie1805 Thank you for your kind words and wishes. The same to you, friend! Today is a day of disappointment for me... after four and a half months, my order from the carpenter arrived. As you may remember, I was modeling stands for models...

shipsofscale.com

Part 2/3

HMS Alert [1777] 1:48 POF by serikoff. (Two hulls: skeleton and fully rigged)

Thank you, friends, for your activity. Thank you, @Charlie1805 Thank you for your kind words and wishes. The same to you, friend! Today is a day of disappointment for me... after four and a half months, my order from the carpenter arrived. As you may remember, I was modeling stands for models...

shipsofscale.com

Part 3/3

HMS Alert [1777] 1:48 POF by serikoff. (Two hulls: skeleton and fully rigged)

Beautiful modelling, Sergey! Question - isn't the eyebolt off by 90 degrees on this part?

shipsofscale.com

 

[serikoff]

Now a few words about 3D printing.

After modeling, we have STL files that need to be prepared in the Anycubic printing slicer.

The slicer parameters (Anycubic Photon Workshop) are as follows:



I print on an Anycubic Photon M3 Plus 3D printer with a 20-micron layer thickness. I initially used Anycubic Water-Wash Resin, but I switched to the new Anycubic Water-Wash Resin 2.0 HD gray. It's convenient because it doesn't require alcohol removal; regular water is fine.

However, curing with UV light is essential, and a regular manicure lamp will do the trick.



I use a mirror for even illumination.

Remember, printing time directly depends on the height of the item you're printing...





...so it doesn't matter how much space is filled on the table—the key is the height! So, if you need a lot of copies, print them all at once—it'll be faster.



As you can see, there are almost five copies of almost every part on the table, except for the cannons and anchors. These are for my two models and one other, plus spares for possible defects during printing or post-processing. (By the way, not a single part was defective during printing.)

An important point is to install the supports correctly. There are some basic rules, but you can find them online, and you'll only understand the nuances with practice.

The huge advantage is that, firstly, you can print an infinite number of the required parts, which is very difficult to do individually by hand. The parts will be absolutely identical. More importantly, the thickness of the parts can be as small as 0.2-0.3 mm. The important thing is that such parts must first be separated from their holders while still wet and exposed between two pieces of glass (or by other means) to fix their shape so that they don't deform during exposure. By the way, it is better to remove the supports (holders) before curing and when they are wet - this reduces the risk of plastic tearing off the part.









Now all these parts are waiting to be copper plated and blackened...

My tests with copper coating of plastic and subsequent blackening are here >>>.

 

[Johnnymike]

I am very happy to find this thread.
I want to learn more.
I have built a few Dutch VOC ships over the years.
When I started work on the Batavia I knew about 3D printing and although it looked interesting I did not see a use for me.
I have been a mechanical engineer all my life and use AutoCAD and Solid Works regularly.
I decided to give it a try and found it very rewarding that I can use it for my hobby.
I just started with an inexpensive printer but found out how easy it is to design a part, draw it and then print it.

I am still a beginner but I am using some of the parts I created on my build now. I don't use it that much yet but see more potential and enjoy the process of designing my own part and using it on the build.

 

[serikoff]

This will be of interest to both beginners (those just starting out or considering buying a printer) and experienced users who might learn something new from it.

I currently have two printers:



The M3+ with a 6MP sensor and FEP film, and the M5s with 12MP and ACF film.

These are two completely different devices, each with its own pros and cons. I'll share my experience using them, but this isn't a manual or a recommendation. It's merely an experience and a starting point for those who are completely new to this topic or who can't set up the perfect print.

I previously attached a screenshot of the M3+ settings, and with these settings, I printed small parts perfectly (shown above). When I got a second printer (the M5), I decided to print the same set on it, but I adjusted the settings for it, considering that it was supposedly much better. BUT! Several prints were unsuccessful. The base would fall off, or parts would break away from the supports... And I realized that they can write a lot of things on paper, but in the end I came to my proven settings and practically duplicated them for the second printer (although it is considered better, these settings were completely suitable for both the M5 and M3+).



Through trial and error, I realized I needed to disable Intelligent Mode in the M5. Otherwise, the printer takes control and typically sets parameters that might fail for extremely small details, resulting in defects. I was beginning to think this printer was bad, or that it had run 666 print cycles with a total of 293,318 layers (to put that in perspective, 4,000 layers can take 15 hours to print). I even replaced the film in the vat, but that didn't help. Until I changed the settings like on my old printer and increased the support.



In the support section, you can leave everything at default except three parameters: 0.250/0.350 and the checkbox next to the 0.500 diameter ball. Through trial and error, I found that these exact parameters on two printers provide the minimum support without the risk of tearing. If you try them, start with these values and increase them if tearing occurs.

So, the old M3 printer printed small parts perfectly, but when printing cannons and anchors (the print took 13.5 hours), there were defects.





I'm not sure what it was, most likely the film, but there weren't that many of these grooves. Considering I usually print much more than necessary, it's tolerable...



But the fact that the print texture was visible on the surface is a drawback. There's a way to combat this. After thoroughly rinsing in the shower (and remember, I use a resin that's water-washable, not alcohol-based) and after drying, but BEFORE curing with a UV lamp, rub the surface with a gloved finger. This will reduce the print mark significantly.



But then you must definitely expose the plastic to ultraviolet light!



A regular nail lamp will do the trick. However, you need to apply light evenly to each side, alternating the two. If you only apply light to one side, or if you don't apply light and let the piece sit in the sun or just pile up with light pressure, it will bend into an arch.



Therefore, the parts must be exposed to the light invertedly, first with a 30-second exposure and then with a one-minute exposure several times. Unexposed parts are fragile and can scratch and damage each other simply by friction.



Some parts, like anchors, have flat areas and to prevent them from twisting, they need to be exposed first on the side opposite to the twisting.



Check the situation. Sometimes it's better to break off the holders and expose the parts to light on the mirror, but sometimes you need to expose them without removing the holders. In these cases, you need to expose them constantly, changing the angle of the light and rotating either the lamp or the table.



In this situation, I handled things differently. I tore the anchors from their supports and rubbed the surface to remove the print marks.



The print is more visible on flat surfaces, but that's not a problem since I'll be polishing the surfaces before the copper coating. To reduce the workload, it's better to rub before the surface is exposed, and the surface will be much smoother.

The entire bottom section is covered in marks from the holders, but when removed, there's no defect because I chose holders with a ball. This area will also be sanded on flat surfaces, making it convenient and quick.



It's recommended to position long, straight parts at a 45-degree angle. This reduces print height and time, but I don't like it that way. In this case, many of the holders will be on the side of the part, which means extra work and sanding. Most importantly, when tilted, long parts inevitably bend. And then it's very difficult to straighten them. While this can be resolved with an anchor at the copper plating stage (simply physically bending them back), it's not possible with a cannon. Therefore, I position everything strictly vertically.





And in this case, I also replaced the supports. I had to completely reprint all the guns, because the first time (on the M3), I installed too many of them in a very bad location, where polishing them would be very difficult. But this time (on the M5), I placed them completely differently, and here's my logic.



First, I reduced their height (which will speed up printing). Second, I removed all the supports from the complex back surface, moving them to the side, where they're very easy to sand. And to make sure they're at the very bottom, I installed four supports at the tip of the gun, which will then be easily sanded to a spherical shape. I also reduced the number of supports on top.



And now, after the breakaway of supports...



...the sanding area is convenient and there's no torn-out "meat" from the supports (which is a defect), as the support with a ball was chosen. These balls remain on the surface and can be sanded off.

And the most important difference between the two printers is the texture of complex (non-flat) surfaces.



The key here is to leave the sticky layer undisturbed and to cure the parts directly on the stage without lifting them from the supports. Apply the UV light in a circular motion to ensure all surfaces are evenly exposed and to achieve a smooth, gliding (non-sticky) surface.



As you can see, the result on the left is much better than the one on the right. (Just ignore the dust... it will be removed before applying the graphite varnish.)



Preliminary fitting (for dimensions, use 1mm wire). Next comes grinding, polishing, and copper plating with a blackened finish.

 

[AllanKP69]

Great post!!! Your results are superlative. Now if you can offer to provide all the 3D drawings I might convince myself to look at the payback versus buying them.. My problem is that I pay less than a US$ for a 3D printed cannon barrel, including shipping. The last ones were for 1:64 scale guns. With a machine that costs over $600, I would need to build six first rates to recoup my investment and that will likely never happen.
Thanks again for your report and explanations, this was great to see!
Allan

 

[serikoff]

Great post!!! Your results are superlative. Now if you can offer to provide all the 3D drawings I might convince myself to look at the payback versus buying them.. My problem is that I pay less than a US$ for a 3D printed cannon barrel, including shipping. The last ones were for 1:64 scale guns. With a machine that costs over $600, I would need to build six first rates to recoup my investment and that will likely never happen.
Thanks again for your report and explanations, this was great to see!
Allan

I understand. But I got both printers for free. Whenever we buy a new one at work, I keep the old one. Now I have two. And I'm saying that you can safely buy a used one and it won't be that expensive. But for copper plating, I need a lot of blanks, so having a printer is a must for me. And if you're painting the parts, then naturally buying a printer isn't always wise if you can find parts cheaply somewhere.

 

[Strand]

Q

 

[Charlie1805]

Beeindruckend und absolut überzeugendes Ergebnis. Einfach klasse! Danke fürs Zeigen. Toller Beitrag.