Language Barriers

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
if it is a ship based on an Admiralty plan in any way shape or forum it is subject to licensing if it is going to be sold
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Even in this case it is not always true. After a certain number of years, original copyrights and all claims expire. For example, there is NO restrictions on using the original 1781 draught of the USF Confederacy from the NMM for all uses - both private and commercial. Here is an exact quote from them regarding the attached artefact. I believe it is important for all modelers to understand this!!!

The original artefact or artwork has been assessed as public domain by age, and faithful reproductions of the two dimensional work are also public domain. No permission is required for reuse for any purpose.
The text of this image record has been derived from the Royal Museums Greenwich catalogue and image metadata. Individual data and facts such as date, author and title are not copyrightable, but reuse of longer descriptive text from the catalogue may not be considered fair use. Reuse of the text must be attributed to the "National Maritime Museum, Greenwich, London" and a Creative Commons CC-BY-NC-SA-3.0 license may apply if not rewritten. Refer to Royal Museums Greenwich copyright.

Confederate_(captured_1781)_RMG_J5352.jpg
 
mrshanks said:
Wanted to get this out to a larger audience since my comment was buried in someone's build log thread. I hope this helps to explain a few things you have been hearing.

We live in a very large world made smaller by the internet!!

Language barriers... Several Chinese model company's purchased Ancre drawings and used those drawings to develop models. This is perfectly legal when those models are for personal use. However, once they become "kits for sale", then a proper "commercial use" license must be purchased from Ancre. Due to language, legal and cultural differences many people in China (and elsewhere) did not know this. It was not intentional and not stealing.... it was by mistake. Uwe has helped to bridge that gap and these companies are now beginning to work together to obtain proper copyright licenses to produce their kits.

I am not sure why this has not been explained until now. It should not be a secret. There is no ugly underground pirate model building industry. We need full transparancy on this topic!

I have seen the very same mistake made by people living in the USA running small businesses who just did not understand the law. It is not a malicious crime, it is just a misunderstanding.

Regarding whether you can or cannot PURCHASE a model kit on the internet. As a CONSUMER, you can buy ANYTHING you want, and BUILD anything you want. There is no crime against this as long as it is for private personal use. If it can be puchased from Ebay, Amazon, AlliExpress or any other E-Commerce platform it is, by definition legal (International Free Trade).... If you are buying it for personal use to build your own model it is, by definition legal (Fair Use). Copyright issues are for the kit makers and sellers to worry about... not the consumer.

Do not let anyone tell you different.

Sail on.
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ANCRE I believe are doing very well from the Chinese makers even without licence. I have bought 4 books from ANCRE after buying the CAF Salamandre and La Belle kits. 4 expensive books that I would never have bought otherwise. I am sure many CAF kit buyers also have bought the ANCRE books as well. In the long term it would be beneficial for both parties to come to an amicable arrangement as both have indirectly boosted each other’s reputations in the modelling world.
 
ANCRE I believe are doing very well from the Chinese makers even without licence. I have bought 4 books from ANCRE after buying the CAF Salamandre and La Belle kits. 4 expensive books that I would never have bought otherwise. I am sure many CAF kit buyers also have bought the ANCRE books as well. In the long term it would be beneficial for both parties to come to an amicable arrangement as both have indirectly boosted each other’s reputations in the modelling world.


that is a good point and perhaps the reason in the manufacturing and retail business thing are just left as they are. in a round about way everyone supports everyone else. To create a circus of it all just divides and creates a riff in the natural flow.
it is like that loud and obnoxious guy at a party yelling about something no one cares about who had way to much to drink and everyone hopes he goes home or passes out in the yard
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
To create a circus of it all just divides and creates a riff in the natural flow.
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Very true. One of the reasons Fair Use laws were created in the first place was to keep the courts from being flooded with frivilous lawsuits over intellectual property and copyright arguments for otherwise creative works that allow things like scale model building to flourish and progress into the future as technology evolves.

en.wikipedia.org

Fair use - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
I have a feeling that we may be seeing any number of small collectives producing models that the buying public will jump at the chance to build. There are any number of ships in the worlds vast history of maritime endeavors that would make excellent models. The ships of the Mediterranean Sea fairing nations would be a good place to start as well as the vast majority of the ships used by the Barbary pirates, the Egytptians, the Phoenicians, the Greeks and Romans and the list goes on. I realize that some of the aforementioned ship types have been produced by some of the European makers, but there are many that have been left out. The same goes for the vast majority of French. English, Spanish and American ships, Another Victory - not needed, let's move on.
 
Brian077 said:
Sea Burd,
I agree with your sentiments about European kits, but after building about 8 European kits by Artisana Latina, Euromodel, Solaine,and Billings, I can assure you that the top end quality kits from China are the best in the business. Their timber and fittings are vastly superior.
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I hear ya, but I just can’t.
 
Sea Burd said:
I hear ya, but I just can’t.
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Just can't what? Build a kit from China due to some preconception of cheapness? Ok, how about from Russia - Master Korabel? Or perhaps Maris Stella - from Croatia? All of these are far, far superior than the classic Euro kits... read some reviews... look at some build logs.. There is nothing cheap about a CAF or Trident kit from China, neither in price nor quality. Take it from a guy who fabricates nearly every day. Or not, its cool.
 
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mrshanks said:
Let us all not forget... regardless of what country the "kit" comes from, it is the builder who creates the model. Look at this great model of Soleil Royal by @BigMike . The kit is ZHL from China. But the work to build it is ALL BigMike.

Soleil Royal ZHL kit 1:90 Scale [COMPLETED BUILD]

Mike - excellent work. Regards,
shipsofscale.com
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Thanks for the compliment Mike. I did that build log so everyone could see what you get and hopefully make a decision about the kit instead of just taking someones word who has never looked at the kit. I am far from being an experienced builder, still learning all the time. I liked the kit so I built it.
I get where Sea Burd is coming from and respect his reasons. This part of the country went through hard times especially through the mid 70’s into the 90’s.
But this is a hobby and I’m not going to be told how build or what to build. Everyone relax and model on.
 
Alot of that with the just cant is from our social conditioning at the time we grew up. We were taught from any early age that communist empires were the source of all evil. They were most likely taught the same thing about us. I remember being so sure at one time or another my unit would be activated because the Russians or Chinese were up to something and we'd be firing our 105's in anger to defend our soil. It never came to pass but those fears and conditioning can stay with a person all their life.

We live in a truely wonderous time right now, outside of Covid and all the rioters and such. In the 70's, 80's, or 90's there wasn't any getting kits from Russia or China really. Now we make friends with the persons we like, regaurdless of immaginary lines drawn on a map declaring nationality. We can buy kits from anywhere pretty much, and the sellers/customers have a happy friendly possition towards each other.

I think what it comes down to is this: Governments make arbitrary rules to enforce their power, while the people from whatever country are just people. They just want to live their lives and be happy.
 
Clair G said:
Well if we are going to start wishing for new model subjects may I submit for your review:

en.wikipedia.org

USS Ohio (1820) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

I would love to see a model of an American ship of the line. Sure, I couldn't afford it, but Id still drool all over it. :)
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i have plans for all the american ships of the line and i was thinking of a stern model of the Pennsylvania. i also have the drawings of the Ohio done by Robert Bruckshaw.
Problem is the time it takes to design and drawn working plans and the high cost of 3D printing for the carvings
 
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