Language Barriers

If I can say my humble opinion, everyone can and should build what they want. The big companies are all history. China, Croatia and Russia have long since escaped you. But a good kit comes at a price. MariaStella
sells his Ontario for over 500 euros if you add shipping, customs and tax to it that exceeds some of his asking price. But since you can build on it for more than a year
and want something sensible, that's okay.
 
Why does it take soooo long for CAF to come to terms with ANCRE ?? Really not brain surgery flat fee for kit sold period. I think the lesson here is not to stop selling your product till you have an agreement. By stopping to sell certain kits worldwide, CAF must have lost more than a contract with ANCRE will ever bring in . Just my opinion of course, not knowing the hang up. I always felt that CAF was dealing from a position of strength and should stop listening to certain web sites .
 
And while we are on the subject. This general badmouthing of products made in China is puzzling. Folks have to remember, China will manufacture whatever you tell them and whatever you are willing to pay. For many years I have been involved in the shipbuilding arena in China and I can tell you first hand that the product when delivered is first class. Walmart is not the true picture of their accomplishment. I know it is IN to pick on China, but by doing so we are missing an opportunity for some great model kits now and in the future.
 
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU GISEL, AND THEY ARE NOT CHEAP, BUT FANTATASTIC AND INOVATIVE KITS, SCREW THE NAYSAYERS YOU KNOW WHO I MEAN, SO TIRED OF OVERPRICED BAD INSTRUCTIONS, TERRIBLE PLANS AND 40 YEAR OLD KITS THAT NEVER CHANGE GOOD BY WHEN THE GO, GO CHINA, RUSSIA, CROATIA ETC. GOD BLESS STAY SAFE. DON
 
gisel said:
Why does it take soooo long for CAF to come to terms with ANCRE ?? Really not brain surgery flat fee for kit sold period. I think the lesson here is not to stop selling your product till you have an agreement. By stopping to sell certain kits worldwide, CAF must have lost more than a contract with ANCRE will ever bring in . Just my opinion of course, not knowing the hang up. I always felt that CAF was dealing from a position of strength and should stop listening to certain web sites .
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Logistics are always taking the time. I think we shouldn't suggest what CAF should do. But I get a better idea for you @gisel if you don't mind obviously, If you know the way how to expedite logistics between CAF and ANCRE, why not help?? ;) How about that???
 
gisel said:
Why does it take soooo long for CAF to come to terms with ANCRE ?? Really not brain surgery flat fee for kit sold period. I think the lesson here is not to stop selling your product till you have an agreement. By stopping to sell certain kits worldwide, CAF must have lost more than a contract with ANCRE will ever bring in . Just my opinion of course, not knowing the hang up. I always felt that CAF was dealing from a position of strength and should stop listening to certain web sites .
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one way to speed up new kits is to start with something no one else has done. Why pick a ship drawn by ANCRE or anyone else in the first place when there are thousands of subjects to choose.
I kind of agree if i were making a kit based on drawings by ANCRE ( which i would not do) but for the sake of argument i would continue to produce the kit until ANCRE came knocking on my door and said ok guy we want X amount per kit. At that point i would either accept the offer or trash the kit. A done deal either way.
it is my loss in time and all the work that went into making the kit by doing it first then waiting for permission, that is backwards, work the permission deal first then go into R&D to produce a kit..


gisel said:
And while we are on the subject. This general badmouthing of products made in China is puzzling. Folks have to remember, China will manufacture whatever you tell them and whatever you are willing to pay. For many years I have been involved in the shipbuilding arena in China and I can tell you first hand that the product when delivered is first class. Walmart is not the true picture of their accomplishment. I know it is IN to pick on China, but by doing so we are missing an opportunity for some great model kits now and in the future.
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actually that is not true on a world wide basis no one is badmouthing kits made in China. It is just a tiny little bunch of people with a grudge. So i say NO it is not the IN thing to pick on China. Working with kits designers and manufactures in China is the IN thing and that is exactly what is going on.
 
Jimsky said:
Logistics are always taking the time. I think we shouldn't suggest what CAF should do. But I get a better idea for you @gisel if you don't mind obviously, If you know the way how to expedite logistics between CAF and ANCRE, why not help?? ;) How about that???
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exactly right we should not get involved or suggest what any two businesses should do. Why not Help? maybe because none of us are international lawyers for either business.. We are just the average everyday consumers of Hobby products.
 
gisel said:
Really not brain surgery flat fee for kit sold period.
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There is quite a bit more to it than that I am sure. Ancre is a French company. CAF is from China. I began this thread speaking of "language barriers" between different countries, cultures and laws. My wife and I have been in business a number of years laser etching products in the US and I can tell you working with Copyright, Trademark, Fair Use, and Free Trade between companies is never just a "flat fee". These things take time. It would not surprise me if CAF decides to discontinue a couple of it's kits. In any event, it is their business - not ours.
 
mrshanks said:
There is quite a bit more to it than that I am sure. Ancre is a French company. CAF is from China. I began this thread speaking of "language barriers" between different countries, cultures and laws. My wife and I have been in business a number of years laser etching products in the US and I can tell you working with Copyright, Trademark, Fair Use, and Free Trade between companies is never just a "flat fee". These things take time. It would not surprise me if CAF decides to discontinue a couple of it's kits. In any event, it is their business - not ours.
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quite frankly say i am involved with the Hahn estate and i have some sort of arrangement or maybe i don't and maybe Mike Shanks has an agreement or maybe he does not with me or the Hahn estate or maybe there are other legal entanglements between kit makes and after market products and this and that.

Then some self appointed person or group tries to step in, personally i would say "hey this has nothing to do with you or you opinions or anything it is none of your business what goes on between businesses so back off.

same with CAF and Ancre it is not our place to meddle in their business affairs.
 
Brian077 said:
Daves comment has considerable merit.
I would suggest a model kit manufacturer would be much better off to use their own research and draft plans from scratch. That would eliminate any copyright issues.
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there are thousands of ship plans in the US national archive all copyright free pick one or two or all you want but NOOOOOOOOOOOO you have to pick some drawings done by someone else that has a copyright then go through all the legal hassle of international laws and royalties.
 
gisel said:
Why does it take soooo long for CAF to come to terms with ANCRE ?? Really not brain surgery flat fee for kit sold period. I think the lesson here is not to stop selling your product till you have an agreement. By stopping to sell certain kits worldwide, CAF must have lost more than a contract with ANCRE will ever bring in . Just my opinion of course, not knowing the hang up. I always felt that CAF was dealing from a position of strength and should stop listening to certain web sites .
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keep in mind these are the opinions of members and not the policies or options of SoS and its staff. We also allow such opinions to be expressed because we respect everyone. CAF is making an effort to deal with issues how long it takes and what the particulars of the talks are is between them. Not us, we do not meddle in such legal affairs.
 
Sea Burd said:
The European kits just have a nicer sound to them, Ive had people ask me, who made that model kit? Spain I say.
if you say China, it sounds like just all the rest of the junk coming from there. I’d never buy one.
and Wendy’s is fast, ive been there. It’s brutal
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IDK. I've been looking at the ZHL Soleil Royal from China. It looks pretty good to me.
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
i have plans for all the american ships of the line and i was thinking of a stern model of the Pennsylvania. i also have the drawings of the Ohio done by Robert Bruckshaw.
Problem is the time it takes to design and drawn working plans and the high cost of 3D printing for the carvings
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Now there's a great idea Dave, Stern models would be a great new alternative.
 
Hedley said:
Aahh, come on MIke, spit it out!!!!!
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I would love to... but 1) you guys already have plenty of models to work on for the moment... and 2) I don't want to get slammed with questions like our good friends at Trident and CAF.....

It takes hundreds and hundreds of hours to do things properly.... always best to wait.. especially for a one man show like me... HA!!
 
HOPEFULLY A STERN KIT OR I WOULD EVEN UNDERTAKE A SCRATCH BUILD AS LONG AS I COULD GET ITEMS THAT I COULD NOT DO, LIKE DECORATIONS, JIG ETC, LOVE THE PUNISHMENT. GOD BLESS STAY SAFE DON
 
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