Let's get more people into wooden ship building!

[shipbuilder]

I really think there is an obsession with warships, covered in decorations, fancy figureheads and guns. People are often held back by themselves. Hundreds of times I have had folk say things like "I could never do that!" and there the matter rests. Also, "I don't have the patience, I can't afford expensive tools, I don't have the time!" I have been using the same inexpensive tools that I have had for many years, I have very little patience, and like to see the model taking shape in the first two or three days. I was short of time when I was at sea, but always managed half an hour or so in the afternoons between watches.
When I was about 8, I built a couple of kits, but when I wanted another, I was told that my parents could not afford it and "if you had anything about you, you would just make them! yourself!" Two days later, I was given a box of yellow pine wood offcuts, and a small wooden toolbox containing, two chisels, coping saw, hammer, archimedean drill, small plane, screwdriver etc, and told to get on with it. I never got out of first grade at wood and metalwork at school, and last report said, "practical skills poor to moderate!" But plodding along at a snail's pace eventually paid off. Merchant ships, of course, are far easier than warships because of minimum decoration, and no guns, and far more interesting histories and life. To me, one sea battle is pretty much like another, and not something I would want to get involved with anyway!

 

[fourseas]

Great photo. That is obviously a young lad that will eventually go to sea.
Jim

 

[shipbuilder]

Great photo. That is obviously a young lad that will eventually go to sea.
Jim

Yes - That is me in 1952 - 9 years later - I was at sea

 

[Ettienne]

maybe turning cheap kits into fine looking models trash to treasure. or maybe a semi scratch project under $150.00

I can agree with this comment. I live in South Africa and wooden kits are quite expensive, but that does not put me of admiring some builds that I see here on this forum. But I had to decide what would work for me. So I have decided to branch into building the more afordable (for me and my wallet) plastic ships ending up building a few Airfix 1/600 kits and now I ry to turn these not so cheap kits anymore, into hopefully fine looking models. And I enjoy them immensely.

 

[zvez]

Just a heads up. I finally decided to take the plunge. I ordered the three kit set from this company, I think I recall I got this link from this thread. I built plastic models but it's been decades and I'm now 65. I'd really like to build one of the big ships but in reading on this forum I'm going with the advice of starting off smaller to get some skills.

Model Shipways Shipwright 3 Kit Combo Series

 

[RussF]

Just a heads up. I finally decided to take the plunge. I ordered the three kit set from this company, I think I recall I got this link from this thread. I built plastic models but it's been decades and I'm now 65. I'd really like to build one of the big ships but in reading on this forum I'm going with the advice of starting off smaller to get some skills.

Model Shipways Shipwright 3 Kit Combo Series

Good choice! You'll learn a lot and save tons of frustration. When complete, you'll be ready for that big one!

 

[fourseas]

A very wise choice. You will be much more prepared to tackle a more complicated kit after completing the three kit projects.

 

[El Capi]

Good choice! You'll learn a lot and save tons of frustration. When complete, you'll be ready for that big one!

I surten agree . It is like when youn start going scoole. class 1, then 2 and one day maybe the University_ this build below -as far I remember from 1991. i build the first on late 69th -when it was not laser cut- fitting all were of plastic, but I like this buils-WITH ALL ITS MISTAKE. elcapi

 

[Bob Cleek]

I think 99.99% of hobby builders are building ship models!! Not real ships lol ad they do not have to be a naval architect or shipwright!!!!!!

Ah, yes, but is it art?
Many student essays once began with the words, "Webster's Dictionary defines ... as ..." I suppose today, they begin with an unattributed quote from some AI platform. This one came from "Copilot:"
Art is one of those beautifully slippery concepts—easy to feel, hard to pin down. At its core, art is:

• Creative expression: The use of imagination and skill to produce something that evokes emotion, beauty, or thought.
• A product of human ingenuity: Whether it's a Renaissance fresco or a street mural, art reflects human experience, culture, and perspective.
• A discipline and a practice: It can be studied, refined, and mastered
• A mirror and a window: It shows us who we are and lets us glimpse worlds beyond our own.

So let's apply these criteria to ship modeling:

Creative expression: A ship model has the potential to evoke emotion, beauty, or thought, but the "imagination and skill to produce" the ship model depends upon its creator. A purely scratch-built ship model can reflect the "imagination and skill" of the model's builder. The kit model, or even the model built from a practicum, is, of its very nature, at best, an amalgamation of the model's designer and the kit's assembler. This is a matter of degree across a wide spectrum, of course. A heavily "bashed" kit model may reflect quite a bit of the assembler's "imagination and skill" and little of the kit designer's "imagination and skill." Even a kit model built exactly to the instructions, may reflect the assembler's "skill" to one degree or another. Most kit models will reflect the finishing skill of the assembler... (or the lack thereof.) That said, what only the purely scratch-built model can do, and what a kit model can never do, is uniquely "evoke emotion, beauty, or thought" as intended by the model's creator. In other words, all ship models may be capable of expression, but only purely scratch-built models can reflect the unique "creative expression" of their builders. At best, and generally in very large measure, kit- and practicum-built models express the "creative expression" of the kit's designer or the practicum's author.

A product of human ingenuity: Certainly, every ship model, be it kit or scratch, to one degree or another, is a product of human ingenuity. Here again, the question becomes, "Whose ingenuity?" Unquestionably, the purely scratch-built model is a product of its builder's ingenuity, while a model resulting from a kit or the instruction in a practicum is necessarily a product of the ingenuity of a collection of intellects, and, in most instances, largely the product of creative intellects other than the assembler or practicum-user.

A discipline and a practice: Ship modeling certainly be "studied, refined, and mastered." However, in the sage words of Roger Pellet, (quoted loosely,) "All you learn from building kits is how to build kits." When one builds a kit, or follows a practicum, without a studied knowledge of how the prototype vessels are actually built and operate, the kit assembler or practicum user is relying upon someone else's "discipline and practice." That is, of course, in part how we learn, but where such a foundation is limited to how the model is built, rather than the prototype, the "student" never gains the knowledge and experience to proceed beyond what they can obtain in the form of someone else's "discipline and practice," commercially packaged in a kit box or between the covers of a practicum.

A mirror and a window: Ship models surely "show us who we are and lets us glimpse worlds beyond our own," but whether that portrayal is accurate depends upon the design and execution of the model. Quoting the Encyclopedia Britannica, Bing's AI algorithms define "art" as "a visual object or experience consciously created through an expression of skill or imagination." ... to convey ideas or emotions."

While "beauty is in the eye of the beholder," and "matters of taste shouldn't be disputed," the question remains, "To what extent does a given ship model "created through an expression of skill or imagination" ... " convey an idea or emotion?" Rob Napier defines what should be the artistic goal of a ship model as: "A ship model should strive to convey a compelling impression of an actual vessel within the historical confines of accuracy."

Now, even if a competently executed kit model, might "convey a compelling impression of an actual vessel within the confines of accuracy" to a beholder, there remains the question of whether the model as a work of art has "artistic integrity." "Artistic integrity" refers to the commitment of an artist to maintain their own standards and vision in their work. It emphasizes prioritizing the art itself and the realization of one's artistic vision over external pressures or commercial interests. In essence, it involves a deep respect for the soul of the artwork, considering not just the literal meaning but also the imagery and emotional resonance it conveys.

A ship modeling artist can only maintain their own standards and vision in their work if their work is their own. If their model is assembled from a kit purchased from the Ho Li Fook Ship Model Company, Ltd. which was in turn a counterfeit, letter and line, from a model kit first made by the Acme Ship Model Co. which was loosely based on a kit designer's impression of a model in the Royal Museum Greenwich, errors and all and with corners cut for the sake of the manufacturer's bottom line, ... well, you get the picture.

As a hobby, "ship modeling" doesn't have to be "art," but if it's "art," it's not what some claim that 99.9% of ship models are.

For what it's worth, if the goal of increasing interest in building ship models of any kind is desirable, the quickest way to achieve it is to showcase and promote scratch-built ship models as the fine art they once were recognized to truly be and still are. I fully realize that fine art ship models are very rarely economically the time to build them, but the fact that they are built nonetheless is what makes them fine art.

Which brings us back to the question, "What can be done to 'get more people into shipmodeling?'"

This is a question I can't imagine any of the fine artists in history ever asking about art.

 

[Roger Pellett]

The old (mostly solid hull) kits came with a roughed out hull or a set of bandsawed laminations called “lifts.” Pieces of wood were included plus rigging line, and fittings. Drawings were included but often NO instructions. It was up to the builder to build the model. These kits built hand crafted models required plenty of ingenuity.

The modern POB kits with step by step instructions???

Roger

 

[Namabiiru]

The old (mostly solid hull) kits came with a roughed out hull or a set of bandsawed laminations called “lifts.” Pieces of wood were included plus rigging line, and fittings. Drawings were included but often NO instructions. It was up to the builder to build the model. These kits built hand crafted models required plenty of ingenuity.

The modern POB kits with step by step instructions???

Roger

Well, they’re certainly challenging enough for me.

 

[Bill-R]

“Let’s get more people into wooden ship building!”

The way I see what would be the best possibility of bringing more people into the hobby is by increasing exposure. There are far too few events or opportunities, in the U.S., that would expose potential new builders to the hobby. When there are contests or meets, many times, the information only gets out to the people that are already involved with the hobby. Looking into the past, when you went down to the local hobby shop, anytime there was going to be a modeling contest there would be a flyer posted in the shop. Our local newspapers would print a section detailing what was going on for the coming weekend. This many times this would include the modeling hobby. Local TV stations would do stories on what was happening around town. When I was in the Boy Scouts, the local Troops would compete against each other in a selected hobby. That was a time when there were many Boy Scout Troops to spread the word.

Now local hobby shops are few and far between, many newspapers have been reduced to printing papers once or twice a week if they haven’t gone totally digital and organizations like the Boy Scouts are not what they once were. There are also many interests in the world that our hobby competes with.

I feel an effective way that we can increase our numbers is by exposure. I am very encouraged to see that wooden ships have been added as a class for IPMS competition. IPMS is a worldwide organization and could be a major force in ensuring our hobby flourishes in the future.

There are many potential hurdles that our hobby needs to overcome if we would like to see it grow. It even needs to be determined if it needs to grow. The most important item is that if we do feel we need to bring more people into the hobby, nothing will change if all we do is talk about our dilemma.

Thanks for the opportunity to post my thoughts.

Bill

 

[Jack Sparrow]

I picked up a bunch of kits over the years when they were on discount. GIven my age and the amount of time it takes me to complete ships, I have more than enough now to keep me going. Just as well because the models these days are terribly expensive.

 

[Bob Cleek]

The old (mostly solid hull) kits came with a roughed out hull or a set of bandsawed laminations called “lifts.” Pieces of wood were included plus rigging line, and fittings. Drawings were included but often NO instructions. It was up to the builder to build the model. These kits built hand crafted models required plenty of ingenuity.

The modern POB kits with step by step instructions???

Roger

As I recall, the early Model Shipways "Yellow Box" models, as well as those from Marine Models and Bluejacket Shipcrafters did have "instructions" on a single 8.5' X 11" mimeographed sheet.

I think this may be the reason why there was a lot less of a distinction between scratch-build and kit-built models back when we were young whippersnappers. There was also what now seems to be a much larger business of selling metal fittings than today. As I recall, Fisher had an extensive catalog of Britania and brass castings and turnings in a wide variety of scales that were designed for "scratch" builders. Those were the good old days when you'd send a self-addressed stamped envelope and they'd mail you back a catalog with a tear out order form. You'd fill that out and mail it in and wait for your parts to come back in the mail. Wasn't life grand back then?

 

[AllanKP69]

For those who saw this post in a different thread, my apolgies for the repeat. Regarding getting more people interested in our hobby the following are some ideas. papers are not what they used to be, but there are city and town magazines and other tabloids that may be interested.
Allan

Have any members or clubs ever contacted local newspapers to do a story? It might get the word out, at least locally. Even articles on individuals. My dad's hobby was pysanky, which is the Ukrainian art of dying (not painting) eggs. The local newspaper did an article which led to lectures at Stetson University and Florida State University and picked up a number of younger folks that took on the hobby. It is a TINY hobby but maybe the same idea could work for ours in a bigger way.

Allan

One of Dad's eggs
View attachment 546136
View attachment 546137

 

[Greg Davis]

At the university in my city, University of Wisconsin - Green Bay, there is a large outreach program called Learning in Retirement. When I was a faculty member at UWGB I was often tapped to give talks related to my teaching and research in mathematics. Earlier this year I was asked to give another presentation and I said yes provided it was related to model ships. They said yes, so next Tuesday I will be giving a talk titles "Building Historic Model Ships: A Lifelong Learning Experience". It will be two hours (with a break) and will cover basic material as well as talk about pro's and con's related to kits, kit bashing, and scratch building. Then I will use four of my models as case studies. A lift / half-hull model of Carrie Price (scratch); Le Pourquoi-Pas built from a Constructo kit (that now resides in a Dean's office on campus); Machine a curer les ports (dredger) built from the ANCRE monograph; and a scratch built model of the Santos-Dumont No. 18 Hydroplane that required a great deal of research as well as the drafting plans. Currently the lecture's enrollment is over 20 and it is doubtful that many of that group have built model ships and even fewer that have considered a kit-less project. So I am hoping / it is my goal to get a few of the audience hooked on the hobby!

Perhaps lecture opportunities of this nature would be available for others to do.

I also wanted to mention that for a time my campus office was large enough to display a model of USS Niagara (from the Model Shipways kit). It generated a good deal of discussion and I actually had a couple of students take on the hobby after seeing it. Getting the hobby / models in a place where people that don't know about the hobby is great way to gain more attention on what can be done.

 

[Bob Cleek]

At the university in my city, University of Wisconsin - Green Bay, there is a large outreach program called Learning in Retirement. When I was a faculty member at UWGB I was often tapped to give talks related to my teaching and research in mathematics. Earlier this year I was asked to give another presentation and I said yes provided it was related to model ships. They said yes, so next Tuesday I will be giving a talk titles "Building Historic Model Ships: A Lifelong Learning Experience". It will be two hours (with a break) and will cover basic material as well as talk about pro's and con's related to kits, kit bashing, and scratch building. Then I will use four of my models as case studies. A lift / half-hull model of Carrie Price (scratch); Le Pourquoi-Pas built from a Constructo kit (that now resides in a Dean's office on campus); Machine a curer les ports (dredger) built from the ANCRE monograph; and a scratch built model of the Santos-Dumont No. 18 Hydroplane that required a great deal of research as well as the drafting plans. Currently the lecture's enrollment is over 20 and it is doubtful that many of that group have built model ships and even fewer that have considered a kit-less project. So I am hoping / it is my goal to get a few of the audience hooked on the hobby!

Perhaps lecture opportunities of this nature would be available for others to do.

I also wanted to mention that for a time my campus office was large enough to display a model of USS Niagara (from the Model Shipways kit). It generated a good deal of discussion and I actually had a couple of students take on the hobby after seeing it. Getting the hobby / models in a place where people that don't know about the hobby is great way to gain more attention on what can be done.

Now this is a great idea! Here in California, many local "junior colleges" at the county level have evening and weekend programs of a similar nature. Many are craft and hobby oriented and make use of the trade training shops at the colleges, such as the woodshops. Some are entry level basic training programs and others are "directed learning" programs where the students bring their own projects and a shop teacher is available to mentor each student to assist them with their project.

 

[Bill-R]

Hello Greg and Bob,

Your stories are great and are perfect examples of how involvement within the hobby can be increased. Where I live, Tallahassee Florida, we have a very active retirement center that gets a lot of support from the city. The support from the retirees is so strong that there are satellite centers throughout the city. At this time, the city is in the process of building a second senior center. I have thought of talking with the center and suggest the idea of starting a modeling program.

Bill

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

getting involved with the right people the problem is there are no model ship clubs no organized structure to this hobby other than the NRG but they are not interested in local events around the US. to approach ingenuity organization in Cleveland i would be asked who do i represent? no one just me i do not think that would carry enough weight to influence them.

History - Ingenuity Cleveland

Home // About // History

www.ingenuitycleveland.org

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

There are many potential hurdles that our hobby needs to overcome if we would like to see it grow. It even needs to be determined if it needs to grow. The most important item is that if we do feel we need to bring more people into the hobby, nothing will change if all we do is talk about our dilemma.

i think this is the big question why do we need to reach out and "grow" what is the reason to do that?