L'Orenoque Mamoli 1:100 scale

[The Gavel]

Last thought on the outrigging mechanism for the bateaux tambour (maybe not last ). How did they raise the inboard side enough so that the boat's weight would start to fall outboard and then engage the fixed davits? Yellow arrow. Perhaps yard tackle? I can't see a bunch of sailors with crowbars and bulging thigh muscles getting 3 tons of metal off the top of the sponson without a mechanical aid to do the heavy lifting. Blue arrow.

 

[Martin By Eye]

Last thought on the outrigging mechanism for the bateaux tambour (maybe not last ). How did they raise the inboard side enough so that the boat's weight would start to fall outboard and then engage the fixed davits? Yellow arrow. Perhaps yard tackle? I can't see a bunch of sailors with crowbars and bulging thigh muscles getting 3 tons of metal off the top of the sponson without a mechanical aid to do the heavy lifting. Blue arrow.

View attachment 588141

i had long ago understood that the hinged spars were used to flip the boat. The chain at the top remains attached to the end of the hinged spar so that it is used to raise the inner edge of the boat. It runs around the top davit sheave to the purchase that is shown, top left. Once the boat is practically vertical , the mobile spar is fitted into the upper end of the hinged spar and the lower davit sheave is used to push it over and outwards while the chain now becomes a brake. As i said previously , the curve of the davit guides the hinged spar to stop sideways flexion forces from breaking the hinges at full opening. I still believe there must be some mechanism fixing the boat solidly to the hinged spars. see next post.

 

[Martin By Eye]

Martin!

I have been thinking about both parts of your post. This first part - how did they manage to flip the boats? I finally figured it out.

I could always see these bars - yellow arrows, but I couldn't understand them from the Panama plans.

View attachment 588127
View attachment 588131

It seemed to me that they would interfere with the wheel. I was wrong. This from my Paddle Wheel Warships reference book:

View attachment 588133View attachment 588134

Here finally is an original French plan from 1850 showing the same mechanism

View attachment 588135

Now I see that on the working bateaux tambours on my model (the port side) I have some detainling work to do

Thank you for your curious questions, spirit guide!

Blessings.
Chuck

here on the second from last illustration , you can see that the design is slightly different and that the wales of the boat fit snugly into recesses on the hinged spars. This would stop the boat from sliding around on the spar and that is the mechanism that i find necessary , but cannot see. note that the last illustration shows straight davits but the hinged spar tips still engage at full closure , with the same locking pin as seen on the Panama. The hinged spars are what the french denominate "Arcs Boutantes"

 

[The Gavel]

The chain at the top remains attached to the end of the hinged spar so that it is used to raise the inner edge of the boat.

Like this?

 

[The Gavel]

Martin! @Martin By Eye I forgot to add to my last post - So, given that the picture shows the mechanics of lifting the bateaux - no need for yard tackle - there would be no need to unrig the chain?

Thoughts please.

Blessings.
Chuck

 

[GrantTyler]

I'm enjoying working out the details.

….. and owning the outcomes.

 

[Martin By Eye]

Martin! @Martin By Eye I forgot to add to my last post - So, given that the picture shows the mechanics of lifting the bateaux - no need for yard tackle - there would be no need to unrig the chain?

Thoughts please.

Blessings.
Chuck

you've got it. i don't know how you add all those coloured arrows, makes it much easier to explain.. The chain can stay where it is, looks pretty heavy .Just the purchase to be stowed away, (it may well run through a pulley somewhere on the opposite side of the bridge, then down to the capstan when working). and , the loose pusher spars, which would probably have a storage rack somewhere close by. The system is self contained, needs no yard involvement. That gauge chain will be easy enough to find, stowage chain for the crossed fixations would be much finer and may be more difficult. Cost me a fortune for the Cutty. Are you going for chain stays for the funnel ? The stays for the davits look to be wire rope, it was beginning to commonly take over.

 

[Martin By Eye]

the pusher spars would probably be wood, by the way,they do not carry all the weight. all the rest would be forged or cast iron with steel pins.

 

[The Gavel]

What ho, shipmates!

The story of epic failure

Making the bateaux tambours davits has been very challenging. I don't have a shipyard with a precision metal drill press or a lathe to turn square brass stock into a round profile. Those would be the right tools for the job of making these davits. So, when you don't have the right tools, improvise.

Pic 1: On the left V 1.0 - I thought to grind out the paths for the chain and rope and cover theground out part with a small sheet of brass. If my soldering skills were well developed, I might be able to do it. You see the result. Part of the trouble was making good contact between the brass so that the parts did noot move when the iron hit the solder. On the right V 2.0. Even though V 2.0 is wrong, I tried the blackening brew on it. Only one bath in and I think after a second she might do.

Pic 2: V 2.0. I could see that I would have to suggest the methods shown in the plans rather than making a miniature of the actual method. The chain is meant to pass through the top loop. Oops. I put double loops too low. Those loops are meant to hold the davit guy lines and belong at the top with the chain loop.

I spent two hours last night on V 3.0. We'll see.

Blessings. Peace. Gratitude.
Chuck

 

[Martin By Eye]

i think you will probably need about fifteen attempts to get a compromise up to your own high standards . I do the same sometimes(often) !
I suggest perhaps trying soldering short flat plates either side of where your sheaves will be then drilling through between them with a dremel rather like a block would be made.
I have some chunks of cork that i use as a pin mat when holding things in place for soldering with pins . if the pins get stuck in the solder i cut them out afterwards

 

[The Gavel]

i think you will probably need about fifteen attempts to get a compromise up to your own high standards . I do the same sometimes(often) !
I suggest perhaps trying soldering short flat plates either side of where your sheaves will be then drilling through between them with a dremel rather like a block would be made.
I have some chunks of cork that i use as a pin mat when holding things in place for soldering with pins . if the pins get stuck in the solder i cut them out afterwards

Martin! Too right!

I will keep trying. Part of my problem has been failing to care properly for my preferred soldering iron tip. I have retinned it - I think .

The other problem is finding bits that are small enough AND sturdy enough to drill through the brass. The scaled diameter of the davits is 1/16inch. Anyone out there with ideas on the right drill bits - preferably available on Amazon?

There is an alternative - look at the RN method - no sheeves through the davits. I would not like to go this route, but it would save me from getting to V 30.0

Blessings.
Chuck

 

[Martin By Eye]

avoid the tungsten , they snap instantly. Plain HSS is best. can you not get proxxon bits on amazon U.S. ? i pay 7€50 for a three pack.

 

[Martin By Eye]

avoid the tungsten , they snap instantly. Plain HSS is best. can you not get proxxon bits on amazon U.S. ? i pay 7€50 for a three pack.

oops sorry, i just looked at amazon US , they want 54$ for the same thing. that's just crazy!

 

[Roger Pellett]

Brass work hardens. When you stretch it, compress it or bend it it gets harder. It’s therefore, important that your drill takes a bite from the surface being drilled as soon as it starts turning. If it just “massages” it just makes the surface being drilled harder.

HSS wire sized drills are available in sizes as small as approximately .0125” Some modelers buy a selection from industrial supply houses like McMaster Carr. I buy mine on Amazon. Beware of imported ones from you know where. Mine came from Amazon, are US made, Chicago Latrope brand. The Gyros brand recommend by Amazon are junk.

The work hardening property of brass requires sharp drills and pressure. Drilling by hand in a pin vise is hit or (mostly miss). I put these small drills in a pin vise chucked in my drill press. They go through the brass like butter.

The smallest hole that I have drilled is .025.”
Roger

 

[The Gavel]

HSS is best. can you not get proxxon bits on amazon U.S. ?

Some modelers buy a selection from industrial supply houses like McMaster Carr. I buy mine on Amazon.

Martin! Roger!

Thank you both! I just ordered some Proxxon bits on Amazon HHS for about $15 per set (got 3 sets). Roger, I'll check your brand - can one ever have too many tiny drill bits? Also thank you for dropping the knowledge about needing an immediate bite.

Seems like a drill press is necessary . Oh well. I guess I don't need that new pair of wingtips after all.

Blessings. Peace. Gratitude.
Chuck

 

[dockattner]

Oh well. I guess I don't need that new pair of wingtips after all.

I say that sentence all the time .

 

[Martin By Eye]

i manage without a drill press for that sort of stuff. A quick stroke with a file will break the surface and get the hole started if needs be. i have a large drill press that i use for mast holes and stand holes but that's it.

 

[The Gavel]

What ho, shipmates!

Been busy making tiny things. How about you? I became very frustrated with the metal working last weekend. I didn't understand why things weren't going as smoothly on the davits as they had on te railings. Now I know that I had killed my solding iron tip. So, I retinned it and last night was able to produce one set of the pump mechanism based on the plans from L'Aigle:



I could tell, that the re-tinning was not the only problem with my tip. I think I really ruined it by not maintaining it while I was making the railings. Don't worry - I thought ahead. See below.

Over the work week I calmed my frustration by making the pin racks for the masts and the pin rails except for the poop deck. On the poop deck I will make the pin rails of brass and solder it to some reinforced railing.

I also invested in a nice Weller soldering iron and a bunch of very pointy tips so that I can get my soldering done without frustration and should I burn up a tip, I can get replacements

This weekend: I think I will have my replacement belaying pins and cleats from Bule Jacket in the mail today - if so, blacken and fill the pin racks and raills and add cleats to the bulwarks and masts.

Keep working on the ironwork - second set of pumps handles - maybe even a third set Finish the pumps. Galley funnel. Between the pins cleats, pumps and funnel I will have all of the deck fixtures finished. The only think standing in the way of starting on the rigging is the bateaux tambours davits.

And most certainly work on the tambour bateaux davits!!!! Perhaps I'll start there

Blessings on your efforts, shipmates!

Peace. Gratitude.
Chuck