Model building inaccuracies

DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
I agree with John Hendrix. You could first ask the builder if he was intending the model to be an artist's piece or an accurate simulation of the actual ship. He may not care about accuracy, and build simply for the enjoyment of building. I am on the other end of the spectrum from John, since even though I love the building process, my goal is to try to build the most accurate model as far as available knowledge on the vessel allows. That adds a lot of research work into a model project, and expense in the form of books, but the research can also be fun, the thrill of chasing down and locating that one source which tells you the paint colors of a vessel at a certain time in its history or how the belaying points were, say belaying pins, ties to rails, kevels or cleats. Research is about 80% of the work, and most of the features of the model are educated guesses, with wild guesses being more plentiful the farther you go back in time period. The point is, what is the modeler's motivation(s) for making the model? They may be radically different than yours would be, and that is why the model looks unappealing to you. Depending on how well you know the modeler, you may be able to offer advice if he/she is trying to go for realism and falling short of the mark, but if he/she is not of the same mind as you are, just compliment him/her on the work. I do like seeking the advice of those who have the same perspective as myself for modeling, because I value greatly their criticism because it helps me become a better model maker.

Does he like this,
View attachment 450467

or this?
View attachment 450469

Both are great works of art. . .
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First one reminds me of my youth and Haight Ashbury days :cool:;)
 
Here’s my take on the subject. I belonged to a group that is titled “beginning woodworking”. One would assume that it was geared toward people learning or interested in woodworking. However, if someone asked whether you should fit the tenon to the mortise or the mortise to the tenon, some troll would invariably state, “everyone knows you should do it this way…”. Someone please explain to me how that response is helpful, meaningful and supportive?
What I have found here at SOS is those types of responses NEVER appear. Everyone is respectful and helpful. Are there differences in opinions, methods and practices? Certainly! (This thread is proof of that!) what, I believe, it boils down to is that we do this hobby because we enjoy it. Some are model kit builders, some only scratch build, some like to research, others could care less. So, varying methods of planking, rigging, striving for historical accuracy, etc. are all provided by members. As novices we are free to try a method suggested or discard it as we choose. That’s the beauty of this group… There is no one right path to success just do the right path for me.

In the word of Morgan Richard Olivier:

You did the best you could
With what you knew at the time

Don’t let new wisdom
Lead you to condemn yourself
Over old struggles

Forgive yourself and move forward
 
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imho it boils down to:

- keep in mind that, unless you build professionally, or your model ends up in a museum, accuracy only matters to you, no one else.
- offer critique/advice when asked for, and ask what the builder's intentions are.
- do this in a respectful way ("c'est le ton qui fait la musique!").
- respect goes both ways; rivet counter, slap-dash I do what I want builder, scratcher, kitter or basher..to each their own.
- let's try to stop the hierarchical thinking. Scratch is not 'better' than bash is not 'better' than kit etc.
- instead, let's start measuring the value of a model in terms of the pleasure and satisfaction it gives the builder.
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It would be a mistake to confuse or co-mingle lack of historical accuracy with lack of build quality. Of these two build quality is probably more important to many modellers. That's why I just laid and re-laid the poop deck of a Heller victory 3 times before I found it to be at least acceptable. So build what you please, but build the best models you can, each is a challenge and an education in itself. Knowing you have done the raw materials justice is the best approach.
 
In my case, I am currently building the MS Constitution. There are already two great build logs for this ship, so I wonder what's the point of posting mine? I might create one when I get to the part where I am adding sails to the ship. That would be something new to show.
 

Jack Sparrow​


We had a lovely tabby cat who came to be known as 'Captain Jack' because of his swaggering walk, devil may care attitude to everything and lack of personal hygiene. He was much loved by us, and also his housemate, a neutered female ex street cat who adored him.

Off topic, for which I apologise, but it made me smile remembering him
 
Always difficult to find a tactful way to "offer advice". On occasion I have posted a supporting comment along with a reference photo. For example, someone posted an update of a whaler try works they were working on which had some inaccuracies. I complemented their work along with photos of the actual try works "they may find helpful".
 
In my case, I am currently building the MS Constitution. There are already two great build logs for this ship, so I wonder what's the point of posting mine?

the point of yours is not the final model it is how YOU got to the finish line. So many build logs have hidden gems on how something was done hints, tips, etc.
when i do a build log i try to include the "how i did it". Sometimes i get " i never thought of tapering a plank that way"

And that, Zoly, is a continuing problem for this forum. SO MANY modeler think themselves below the standards of construction of the more experienced ones here that they absolutely refuse to post any pictures of their work

Ships of Scale is not a competition of who builds the better model it is a school of learning model ship building where builders come to learn. As my dad use to tell me if you have no questions i assume you know everything.
a quote from one of my teachers in model building
"not only is knowing how to build a model but also how to take it apart and do it again the right way."
Robert Bruckshaw
 
I agree with Dave! We have absolutely no competitions here on SOS, and our build logs have a solely learning and educational purposes. Some of us, like beginners, can learn the methods and techniques, while others, more experienced ones share their 'How To'. On SOS we don't judge and never compare someone's work, we appreciate it!
We encourage members to start their build logs and our experienced members are 'watchers' They can step up and help with their advice but... only if the members are asking for it.

We are trying to help each other. This is the SOS mission and the ultimate goal.
 
I have to say I am very new to this hobby. I have found SOS invaluable, especially the building logs. I have done a few logs myself and have openly asked for help. The response has always been kind and helpful. At this stage, I am certainly not looking to produce a 100% accurate boat. To be honest I don't think I ever will. But as others have said this is for my enjoyment and to be honest your family and friends who see the finished product will not be 1/10 as critical as you will be yourself on the finished product. Each project has been a learning experience.
 
I allow myself to respond and add my opinion to this forum. Frankly what can it do or bother you if a model maker does what he wants?. We are not representatives of a museum, which is rigorous! We are a group of people who enjoy themselves with their hobbies and who are kind enough to show you their work. So just or not, we don’t care and it’s none of your business. Everyone can do what they want and most importantly, what they can. We do not all have the possibility to make perfectly fair models, for lack of means or information. So rejoice in belonging to this community and learn from others what they offer you or what you will find there. Personally I had posted my work of construction of the Amerigo Vespucci of Panart to 1/84 and a member took the liberty of criticizing me on a detail. I did not ask him for his opinion. I was very upset and decided not to publish anything any more. Everyone lost. I do not publish my photos to ask the opinion of others, but just to show with pride what I am modestly capable of. If I have to be criticized then I go somewhere else because what right can you criticize? Especially since the one who gave me his opinion without me asking him, was wrong and told me mistakes. Then he should have kept quiet instead of being ridiculous. Let us be proud of our work and let us be aware that there are still spaces for dialogue and freedom in a world that already lacks much.
 
Alan Smith said:

Jack Sparrow​


We had a lovely tabby cat who came to be known as 'Captain Jack' because of his swaggering walk, devil may care attitude to everything and lack of personal hygiene. He was much loved by us, and also his housemate, a neutered female ex street cat who adored him.

Off topic, for which I apologise, but it made me smile remembering him
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lol. that is quite the story.
 
Philski said:
I build for fun. And I try to use methods that will make my model as to what I consider to be "presentable". They're only going to sit on shelves at home. Reminds me of a joke: A very young man went to a house of ill repute. One of the ladies there asked" Who do you think you're going to please with that little thing?" To which the boy replied,"Me!"....and so goes our builds....want a pink ship, then by all means, have at it.
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I agree. From all my years reading reading this forum I never once thoght of it as being directed at professional modelers. I always considered it to be a great repository of information that educates by providing techniques and resources to help each orher grow and make modeling more fun. This is supposed to be fun and provide hours or escape from our crazy world. Also, for all of the critics, I have visited many model ship museums all over the world, been on the Victory 6 times over 50 years, the Constitution, the Constellation, the C. W. Morgan, the original and rebuilt Cutty Sark, just a few weeks ago the Vasa in Stockholm, etc., etc and on each tour the first thing guides describe are the many, many modifications made to them throughout their active lives. So even the most accurate "professional" museum models should include information and disclaimers within the display stating all the specifics that were addressed by the modeler as an "accurate" representation. The reality is that we all know just from reading history this is impossible so we research, iterate and incorporate from whatever information is available to enjoy making a model that satisfies our own requirements. It's a great hobby with many dynamics opening up windows of learning opportunities. Just enjoy the ride!
 
SylvainBL said:
Personally I had posted my work of construction of the Amerigo Vespucci of Panart to 1/84 and a member took the liberty of criticizing me on a detail. I did not ask him for his opinion. I was very upset and decided not to publish anything any more.
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Hi, Sylvain. I agree with you, it was a bad idea on his/her side. But please continue to post your work, you know you do not maintain a build log because of this individual. You are doing this for thousands (yeah many thousands of others), not just our members, your blog can be viewed by many modelers across the globe.

But please don't take it seriously, this is a public forum and everyone has their opinion to express. Sometimes an opinion of one can disappoint us, but... thousands of others appreciate your work and find it valuable! If you stopped your log, you punished many others who were looking at your work.
 
Hoy mates, wonderful conversation. Do whatever research you can a d build it. If anybody gas a complaint, tell them to contact the maker of the model.
Did you know some chemical specialist have discovered the HMS Victory has the wrong color of paint! A new color variant is now being made to repaint the ship in its proper color. So all the models we see of the HMS Victory are wrong????
 
uncchains said:
Being still somewhat new to this web site, can someone give me some advice as to how react to a modeler's post showing obvious inaccuracies, historic, construction, equipment, ect., in either or both the progress of the build or in the finished product? I recently saw, in another similar site, an otherwise nice model of an US Aegis class destroyer on which the builder added equipment that the ship he was modeling never had. It would appear the builder put the model together straight out of the box without doing any research (books, photos, etc.) on the ship he was constructing first. He just installed everything in the kit regardless. Am I making too much out of this? Surely model building is about the enjoyment of the process. I find that the research prior to and during the building of a model enhances the enjoyment of building a model and getting the finished product as close to depicting the original be it airplane, jet or ship. I suppose there are "modelers" for whom that part of the build is not as important as it is to me and others. I will continue to research the HMS VICTORY (2nd model) and the VASA I am building and hope to resume posting progress on the two models in the build logs I started a while back.
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It's all about the person viewing the work. Whether it's a refurbished old car, a historical novel, or a ship model, the accuracy, beauty, creativity, and skill will be judged upon the viewer's limit of tolerance. Everyone has different expectations, so as the old saw says, "You can't please everyone!"
 
SylvainBL said:
I allow myself to respond and add my opinion to this forum. Frankly what can it do or bother you if a model maker does what he wants?. We are not representatives of a museum, which is rigorous! We are a group of people who enjoy themselves with their hobbies and who are kind enough to show you their work. So just or not, we don’t care and it’s none of your business. Everyone can do what they want and most importantly, what they can. We do not all have the possibility to make perfectly fair models, for lack of means or information. So rejoice in belonging to this community and learn from others what they offer you or what you will find there. Personally I had posted my work of construction of the Amerigo Vespucci of Panart to 1/84 and a member took the liberty of criticizing me on a detail. I did not ask him for his opinion. I was very upset and decided not to publish anything any more. Everyone lost. I do not publish my photos to ask the opinion of others, but just to show with pride what I am modestly capable of. If I have to be criticized then I go somewhere else because what right can you criticize? Especially since the one who gave me his opinion without me asking him, was wrong and told me mistakes. Then he should have kept quiet instead of being ridiculous. Let us be proud of our work and let us be aware that there are still spaces for dialogue and freedom in a world that already lacks much.
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Hello
You are actually establishing censorship.
I do not consider a well-intentioned observation about something that presents their work, a criticism to get angry.
I participate in other forums and it is common to point out errors and even make jokes or small observations that in general the "criticized" usually appreciates.
Delete the review
It is actually a form of tyranny.
In addition, the forum has moderators who intervene when criticism is malicious.
All the best


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Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
Being still somewhat new to this web site, can someone give me some advice as to how react to a modeler's post showing obvious inaccuracies, historic, construction, equipment, ect., in either or both the progress of the build or in the finished product?

that is a good question and i got into a hot debate over the issue of correcting others work. It got to a point i was suspended from the forum as a troublemaker.
It started out i commented on a bad hull planking job and what was wrong with it.

there are two valid sides to the issue
It is the builders ship model and it can be built anyway the builder see fit or built to their skill level. As you said some build for fun and are not concerned about historical accuracy or errors in construction. Bottom line it is you model so built it your way. Another point is who do you think you are to critique others work or be so critical. a negative aspect of this is say a novice builder spent months building and decides to post the progress. Then you get others jumping all over it nit picking the model apart. now that is discouraging to say the least. Odds that builder will think twice before showing his work

now for the other side of the coin

so many times, i see comments like nice job, good work, when in fact it is totally wrong. Novice builders will search through forums and build logs looking for answers or the correct way to do something. When they come across a build with comments like a good job you would assume it is correct. what is going on here is bad or wrong information is being passed along. When you see hull planking done 5 different ways it becomes confusing. By nature a novice builder is well "novice" and lacks information and when a forum subscribes to "it's you model build it your way" is doing a great disservice to future builders.
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I completely agree with the undeserved praise given to ships full of errors, which lead to the mistakes of those who are not experts.
Everything that is published is exposed to criticism and I have learned a lot from criticism.
If someone gets upset by well-intentioned, constructive criticism, I simply stop paying attention.


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Hello
I put one of my reviews on another forum that has raised nothing but smiles (and also some criticism).
They know me and they know that I always do it in good faith.


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Marine invertebrates
Marine organisms

Term applied essentially to marine invertebrates such as Limnoria sp.p. and Teredo sp.p., which require a certain degree of salinity of the water and which excavate extended galleries or cavities in the wood. These organisms can seriously damage both fixed and floating structures.

The boat (boat, I would say) is very good and attracts attention
The phrase "is out of the ordinary" I suppose it refers to doing something other than frigates, nepomucenes, holy trinities and similar things
Those of us who visit other forums where "abnormal" ships are shown enjoy ships like this, and even those that are less "normal."
I don't want to bother anyone, I hardly write in the forum because I almost always see the same things (it's not that I'm used to it, it's just that except for very well-made boats, they bore me to death) and this project arouses my interest.
What I was going for.
It bothers me once again that the boat is partially painted, except for the rough work, which is the first thing that should be done on a boat that is supposed to imitate the real thing, from what I mentioned at the beginning.
If it is not desired or documentation on the range of colors is not available, a tone of off-white or old white can be applied to the living work, or a dirty copper color if it corresponds to the period, imitating a lining of plates of that material. , or consult L........, or C......., who know everything.
In general, models with exposed wood finish are due to three causes:
1º The art of painting is not mastered (absolutely acceptable and understandable, but almost no one trusts)
2º The aim is to show the good construction of the boat (that is, what in my time was called "showing off")
For this, the execution must be impeccable and in most cases this is not the case, with very few and honorable exceptions, in which at most two or three ranges of colors typical of different woods are used.
3º The so-called "mandrill ass" case applicable to blue combs and bulwarks painted red on the inside indistinctly (incomprehensible, at least to me).
In the case that I mention, with a living work in whitish color this model would have been luxurious
I am very happy, he adopted a beautiful cat, since the one he had died after thirteen years.
The one I have now has the "living work" in old white and the "bow" and spine in dark brown
Greetings and I hope they request my resignation from the forum again.
 
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