Model building inaccuracies

i have models i built and there are mistakes that no one will ever notice but i know they are there
I totally feel your pain on this. Even little mistakes I have made around the magazines that no one will ever see bother me. There is always the next one, but still..... I had a situation where there was a seating area and a head down below and I re-did it twice as the overhead could be removed in order to see the inside. I had no choice on that one as it would be seen by the clients but I was glad I did the do-overs even for my own satisfaction.

Head and inside seating with cushions..JPG
 
I remember beginning building model ships. I was six years old. Pyro had released their "Tabletop Series", which were 1/1200 scale and easily affordable on my 50 cents per week allowance. I eventually built the entire collection, and every one of them was criticized by various people because I had not painted them. I didn't care; I just enjoyed building them. Besides, they were grossly undetailed.

Then, I discovered their small-scale sailing ships! The first one I built was the "Half Moon". I proudly showed it at Show and Tell, quoting the box as being the ship of Hendric Hudson. Immediately one boy loudly shouted that I was wrong; it was Henry Hudson! Although the teacher had intervened, I became somewhat jaded about my modeling.

I did keep it up, though, but decided that my models were for me and that critics could . . .

Bill
 
Criticism can either be a dissuader or a tool for improvement, and which it becomes for you largely has to do with the intent of the person making the criticism and how the recipient accepted the criticism. For me, critical comments have been an invaluable tool in improving my models, and without them, I'd still be making mere toy boats instead of historic vessel simulations. Discussing the accuracy of ship model features is a fundamental part of this forum. If one only wants to hear praise or accolades about one's work, you can find there here too, but be prepared to hear viewpoints that conflict with your perspective on model building. Since I try my best for historical accuracy in a subject where facts are unknown or highly debatable, more information from all sources is always good, and helps me choose the most educated choice for every feature in a ship model.
 
Criticism can either be a dissuader or a tool for improvement, and which it becomes for you largely has to do with the intent of the person making the criticism and how the recipient accepted the criticism. For me, critical comments have been an invaluable tool in improving my models, and without them, I'd still be making mere toy boats instead of historic vessel simulations. Discussing the accuracy of ship model features is a fundamental part of this forum. If one only wants to hear praise or accolades about one's work, you can find there here too, but be prepared to hear viewpoints that conflict with your perspective on model building. Since I try my best for historical accuracy in a subject where facts are unknown or highly debatable, more information from all sources is always good, and helps me choose the most educated choice for every feature in a ship model.
I suppose that the early criticism from key people in my life meant that I could take honest criticism meant in a positive way. Unfortunately, it wasn't meant that way early in my life.

Bill
 
I remember beginning building model ships. I was six years old. Pyro had released their "Tabletop Series", which were 1/1200 scale and easily affordable on my 50 cents per week allowance. I eventually built the entire collection, and every one of them was criticized by various people because I had not painted them. I didn't care; I just enjoyed building them. Besides, they were grossly undetailed.

Then, I discovered their small-scale sailing ships! The first one I built was the "Half Moon". I proudly showed it at Show and Tell, quoting the box as being the ship of Hendric Hudson. Immediately one boy loudly shouted that I was wrong; it was Henry Hudson! Although the teacher had intervened, I became somewhat jaded about my modeling.

I did keep it up, though, but decided that my models were for me and that critics could . . .

Bill
Nobody ever built a monument to a critic!... Cautious
 
Being still somewhat new to this web site, can someone give me some advice as to how react to a modeler's post showing obvious inaccuracies, historic, construction, equipment, ect., in either or both the progress of the build or in the finished product? I recently saw, in another similar site, an otherwise nice model of an US Aegis class destroyer on which the builder added equipment that the ship he was modeling never had. It would appear the builder put the model together straight out of the box without doing any research (books, photos, etc.) on the ship he was constructing first. He just installed everything in the kit regardless. Am I making too much out of this? Surely model building is about the enjoyment of the process. I find that the research prior to and during the building of a model enhances the enjoyment of building a model and getting the finished product as close to depicting the original be it airplane, jet or ship. I suppose there are "modelers" for whom that part of the build is not as important as it is to me and others. I will continue to research the HMS VICTORY (2nd model) and the VASA I am building and hope to resume posting progress on the two models in the build logs I started a while back.
You answered your own question in your post. The short answer to your question “Am I making too much out of this?” is yes but there are others that would say no. There’s obviously a full range of opinion and modeling approaches. I enjoy building and don’t care to research details for hours. That’s why I like a good kit with good instructions. I focus on precision assembly and realistic finishes and weathering for a very convincing result. There never has been or ever will be anybody who sees my display case that would ever know the difference as to the whether a feature or two are accurate or inaccurate. I and everyone who has ever viewed my models loves them. To each his own.
 
Criticism can either be a dissuader or a tool for improvement, and which it becomes for you largely has to do with the intent of the person making the criticism and how the recipient accepted the criticism. For me, critical comments have been an invaluable tool in improving my models, and without them, I'd still be making mere toy boats instead of historic vessel simulations. Discussing the accuracy of ship model features is a fundamental part of this forum. If one only wants to hear praise or accolades about one's work, you can find there here too, but be prepared to hear viewpoints that conflict with your perspective on model building. Since I try my best for historical accuracy in a subject where facts are unknown or highly debatable, more information from all sources is always good, and helps me choose the most educated choice for every feature in a ship model.
Hello
It is a perfect exposition of what I wanted to say.
I agree with everything.
Greetings
 
In another forum where I participate, it is sometimes mentioned that a modeller suffers from SMA (advanced modeller's syndrome).
This syndrome almost always leads to never finishing a boat, due to the amount of doubts and queries that the patient makes so that his boat is clean of errors.
I am at the beginning of this diseaseo_O
It's not about being sick to that point, just trying not to make major mistakes.
But there are some who do not consider this and sail freely and are undoubtedly happier.
Anything goes, both to be happy and finish many models without stopping to do a little research, or to spend sleepless nights consulting the ship's logs to count the number of sailors who could share a room with the chickens, which were taken for provision. of eggs, like a friend of mine makes
 
In another forum where I participate, it is sometimes mentioned that a modeller suffers from SMA (advanced modeller's syndrome).
This syndrome almost always leads to never finishing a boat, due to the amount of doubts and queries that the patient makes so that his boat is clean of errors.
I am at the beginning of this diseaseo_O
It's not about being sick to that point, just trying not to make major mistakes.
But there are some who do not consider this and sail freely and are undoubtedly happier.
Anything goes, both to be happy and finish many models without stopping to do a little research, or to spend sleepless nights consulting the ship's logs to count the number of sailors who could share a room with the chickens, which were taken for provision. of eggs, like a friend of mine makes
If after researching ALL the sources you can muster and still not find evidence of a particular ship feature, it's time to make a best guess and move on to other parts of the model. You shouldn't let lack of information stop you entirely. Perhaps you will find some guidance on that point in the future, but if you let it stop all progress, the model won't get finished.
 
People that
I totally feel your pain on this. Even little mistakes I have made around the magazines that no one will ever see bother me. There is always the next one, but still..... I had a situation where there was a seating area and a head down below and I re-did it twice as the overhead could be removed in order to see the inside. I had no choice on that one as it would be seen by the clients but I was glad I did the do-overs even for my own satisfaction.
Use bi-fold doors ;)
 
Jerry
The model followed the original plans from the designer. In the end some re-design was needed as the model I did for them showed there was insufficient room for access for a wheel chair if they followed the original plans. The wheel chair access was a major part of the design of the new schooner so having the model turned out to be a big help.
 
A perfectionist is a person who never finishes a project. I may have said this before on this forum. If so, forgive me, I just want to get it right. :rolleyes:
 
A perfectionist is a person who never finishes a project. I may have said this before on this forum. If so, forgive me, I just want to get it right

In another forum where I participate, it is sometimes mentioned that a modeller suffers from SMA (advanced modeller's syndrome).
This syndrome almost always leads to never finishing a boat,


i followed in my dad's footsteps of graphic art and design. and became a commercial artist. i have seen it many times an artist will continue to fuss over a piece not knowing when to stop.

it is well known and understood art is never "finished" it is abandoned

i know it is the third time i have taken apart and started again on the project i am working on.
 
So far, the conversation has been something along the lines of "should we criticize?" I'm not sure that's the right question to be asking. To my mind, at least, a better question is "how do we help the new modeler?" Those new to this craft (I really don't like the word "hobby") are the ones most likely to commit errors, and the ones most likely to commit serious errors. The difficulty is that many people do not know what they do not know. For example, when I built my first wooden model ship, I wanted it to be historically accurate, but to save myself some time, I bought a kit. Kit manufacturer's, I figured, would have put a lot of time and effort into researching their product. What could go wrong? Granted, I bought this kit when dinosaurs still roamed the earth, and that internet thing had yet to be invented, but I suspect the problem still exists today, at least to some extent. I also suspect that may new modelers don't know that kits are typically inaccurate.

The usual answer to this problem is to tell folks to do their research, but that's not a very specific instruction. There are several types of research that needs to be done:
(1) Research on your ship's history. I think, for whatever that's worth, that this is the least important part of building a model. but I would not be surprised to find that many new to ship modelling interpret the question this way.

(2) Research on what your ship looked like. This can be VERY involved. Part of this question involves learning whether the plans you have are accurate. If you're building something from the 17th century are earlier, its almost always the case that there were either no original drawn plans or, if there were, they have been lost. This is not something new modelers are likely to know. I wonder how many models of the Mayflower or the Santa Maria have been built by people who thought they were building exact replicas of these ships.

Part of this kind of work also involves finding and examining artwork. The latter is trickier than it sounds, at least with older ships. In the 17th century, at least, artists often made mistakes, and portrayed features that were never on any given ship. I wonder how widely this is known.

(3) Another part of the research is on how you are going to build your ship. This can involve researching shipbuilding techniques of the era you're interested in, and the woodworking techniques you need to know. This is also pretty involved.

IMHO, there is no good place for the new modeler to go to find this kind of information. Information for those new to the craft is often written by experienced modelers who know a lot, and forget how little someone who is new to the craft does not know.. It's not much of an overstatement to say that when I began, i was pretty sure that if you had deadeye, you should see an ophthalmologist, and that someone who was talking about a wale had made a grievous spelling error in their description of a marine mammal. How can we help the new modeler with research, when they do not know what they do not know?

Another difficulty is that information to ne modelers is usually found in a series of posts that contain material not always relevant to new folks. Having to wade through a series of posts can be frustrating. Books are also problematic. These "how to" books often describe how a modeler built a particular ship. The material in that book may not be relevant to a ship of a different period. This is not meant as a criticism of these books and posts. It is meant to illustrate how difficult it is for new modelers to find exactly the material they are looking for. So, again, "how do we help them?"
.

Then, too, there is the issue of outreach. It would not surprise me if we don't ever see most models. These are the models made by those who don't even know that there are modeling forums. I have no solution to this problem that doesn't cost a lot of advertising money, but it remains a problem. I only found SOS by accident, and there are probably a lot of people who have not had such a happy accident.
 
So far, the conversation has been something along the lines of "should we criticize?" I'm not sure that's the right question to be asking. To my mind, at least, a better question is "how do we help the new modeler?" Those new to this craft (I really don't like the word "hobby") are the ones most likely to commit errors, and the ones most likely to commit serious errors. The difficulty is that many people do not know what they do not know. For example, when I built my first wooden model ship, I wanted it to be historically accurate, but to save myself some time, I bought a kit. Kit manufacturer's, I figured, would have put a lot of time and effort into researching their product. What could go wrong? Granted, I bought this kit when dinosaurs still roamed the earth, and that internet thing had yet to be invented, but I suspect the problem still exists today, at least to some extent. I also suspect that may new modelers don't know that kits are typically inaccurate.

The usual answer to this problem is to tell folks to do their research, but that's not a very specific instruction. There are several types of research that needs to be done:
(1) Research on your ship's history. I think, for whatever that's worth, that this is the least important part of building a model. but I would not be surprised to find that many new to ship modelling interpret the question this way.

(2) Research on what your ship looked like. This can be VERY involved. Part of this question involves learning whether the plans you have are accurate. If you're building something from the 17th century are earlier, its almost always the case that there were either no original drawn plans or, if there were, they have been lost. This is not something new modelers are likely to know. I wonder how many models of the Mayflower or the Santa Maria have been built by people who thought they were building exact replicas of these ships.

Part of this kind of work also involves finding and examining artwork. The latter is trickier than it sounds, at least with older ships. In the 17th century, at least, artists often made mistakes, and portrayed features that were never on any given ship. I wonder how widely this is known.

(3) Another part of the research is on how you are going to build your ship. This can involve researching shipbuilding techniques of the era you're interested in, and the woodworking techniques you need to know. This is also pretty involved.

IMHO, there is no good place for the new modeler to go to find this kind of information. Information for those new to the craft is often written by experienced modelers who know a lot, and forget how little someone who is new to the craft does not know.. It's not much of an overstatement to say that when I began, i was pretty sure that if you had deadeye, you should see an ophthalmologist, and that someone who was talking about a wale had made a grievous spelling error in their description of a marine mammal. How can we help the new modeler with research, when they do not know what they do not know?

Another difficulty is that information to ne modelers is usually found in a series of posts that contain material not always relevant to new folks. Having to wade through a series of posts can be frustrating. Books are also problematic. These "how to" books often describe how a modeler built a particular ship. The material in that book may not be relevant to a ship of a different period. This is not meant as a criticism of these books and posts. It is meant to illustrate how difficult it is for new modelers to find exactly the material they are looking for. So, again, "how do we help them?"
.

Then, too, there is the issue of outreach. It would not surprise me if we don't ever see most models. These are the models made by those who don't even know that there are modeling forums. I have no solution to this problem that doesn't cost a lot of advertising money, but it remains a problem. I only found SOS by accident, and there are probably a lot of people who have not had such a happy accident.

as the NRG says "better models through research" that is far easier said than done. As an example, i stated to 3D model of a 1848 Great Lakes steam engine that was salvaged and the Smithsonian has the engine. I do have drawings but those drawing lack detail of some parts. So i send an Email to the Smithsonian asking about the engine, that took 4 months of exchanging emails until i finally found the right person to ask. I was told yes there are about 1,000 35mm slides of the salvage operation and of the engine, plus a number of reports a gold mine of research information except here is the catch. No one at the Smithsonian will sit there and go through the steam engine files. I am told they do not have the staff to do research but if i like i can come to the Smithsonian and do the research myself. The problem with that is i live in Ohio and making a trip to Washington DC getting a hotel room for 2 or 3 days, pulse the cost of $35.00 per image to copy. Well! you see the problem with "research" the cost is staggering. I can hire a researcher, but that cost is very expensive. The same is true from major museums to small historical societies.

KITS
Model kits are not based on firsthand research they most likely are based on other kits or contemporary sources, secondhand news if you will. This is why you rarely see new subjects from kit manufactures and so many of the same ship done over and over by different companies. Research is very, very expensive.
Even though "better models through research" is a grand idea but not practical at a hobby level or even at a serious building level.

The difficulty is that many people do not know what they do not know.

this is the truth if you do not know the nomenclature of ship building you don't know what to look for or what to ask. a beginner would not know terms like a shutter plank or garboard, thick stuff, dead rise and the list goes on.
The only source of information is from other model builders and from published Model ship magazines and journals but those are not academic, articles are by other model builders and the publications are riddled with errors that have been passed down from on source to another. One prime example is ship were built using wooden treenails, this is true in some cases but not all, but over time it became the standard belief. In reality copper or iron rods were used with clinch rings, spikes were used for planking not wooden treenails.

there are so many different building methods over the period of wooden ship building it would be impossible to cover them all. It just might be better to keep it all as a hobby and do the best we can with what we have available, leave the historical accuracy in the hands of Texas A&M ship model lab. They have the resources that we do not. However, we still need to lay the groundwork of basic model ship building. We may be able to show some historical point in a kit but keep in mind the construction methods of model ship kits are worlds apart from how an actual ship was built.

 
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