Question about Braces -- standing end attachment on a schooner

[Brewbrarian]

Alright, ladies and gents,
I am about to run the braces on my Black Prince Schooner, and I have a question.
I'm venturing off-kit on my rigging, and I have followed Marquardt (The Global Schooner, 1695-1845) in rigging a schooner stay to free the movement of the fore gaff. This stay runs from the mainmast top horizontally to the foremast and down to the deck
Now, for the braces, I understand that the standard way of rigging fore course braces would be to secure the standing end of the braces partway down the mainstay, then running the lead through the brace block pendant on the yard, back to a block at the mainmast top, and finally down to belay at the rail.
My question is, with the schooner stay high up and nearly horizontal, would the braces still be seized to that stay. If so, the lead would be coming from on high, vertically down to meet the pendant blocks, so I am considering securing the standing end to the crosstrees.
I can't seem to find anything in Marquardt or Lees on where this standing end would secure, and would love some advice.
Cheers!

 

[Brewbrarian]

Bumping this up the list, hoping for a response.

 

[Donnie]

I will try to give this a shot - Most braces (path) does include attaching the block to a stay. I have never seen in any situation of what you are wanting to do by attaching it to the tree. However, I don't think there are any fast rules on this as this is a schooner and not a square rig.
Is there any "part" of the rigging "path" that concerns you the most? Is it the vertical drop that concerns you?

 

[danielsje]

Rigging is always more an art rather than a science. There are standard methods that work universally but the working rule is to run lines for one of two purposes...first to stabilize masts. In this case is to position standing rigging to take advantage of stress points and angles to counter the stress on masts while under sail. Second, the Running rigging must be able to move sails using block and tackle concepts. For running rigging one must have a free run and the right block and tackle combination to lift the sail under stress. So what is the reason for this reminder? Free run of lines means to belay at any point that provides easy access to the line and maintains free run. It really does not matter if the belay is point a or point b. So the issue for you...does the belay points achieve leverage and free run for inning rigging and a reasonable stasis for the stresses of standing rigging? If so...especially in modeling...go for it. Of interest, many Captains of tall ships had their own ideas of rigging plans for their ships and often changed around belay points, block and tackle combinations, and the physics of standing rigging.

 

[Denis Gaille]

Hello Eric,
I am building a schooner dated 1816 probably copied on the Lynx/Musquidobit. (It is a Greek schooner named Terpsichore)
You are right not to find any specification in Markhardt's Global schooner as they aren't any.
In Lennarth Petersson's Rigging an American schooner, top sail and fore course braces braces pass through a double block nailed
on each side of the main mast heel, belayed on pins at the starboard and port belaying areas.
In Howard I Chapelle's "the search for speed under sail", the rigging plan of the Lynx (as another example)
shows fore course brace passing through a single block attached at 1/3 (from deck) height of the first shroud while
the top sail brace passes in a double block nailed under the cross tree.
In the same book, if you look a the rigging plan of the "Prince de Neufchatel 1815", the fore course and top sail braces are double
and belaying points different...
I believe that Jim's comment is very relevant and when we don't have the specific information for the said model,
we may choose the (most) probable option!
Denis

 

[Brewbrarian]

Hello Eric,
I am building a schooner dated 1816 probably copied on the Lynx/Musquidobit. (It is a Greek schooner named Terpsichore)
You are right not to find any specification in Markhardt's Global schooner as they aren't any.
In Lennarth Petersson's Rigging an American schooner, top sail and fore course braces braces pass through a double block nailed
on each side of the main mast heel, belayed on pins at the starboard and port belaying areas.
In Howard I Chapelle's "the search for speed under sail", the rigging plan of the Lynx (as another example)
shows fore course brace passing through a single block attached at 1/3 (from deck) height of the first shroud while
the top sail brace passes in a double block nailed under the cross tree.
In the same book, if you look a the rigging plan of the "Prince de Neufchatel 1815", the fore course and top sail braces are double
and belaying points different...
I believe that Jim's comment is very relevant and when we don't have the specific information for the said model,
we may choose the (most) probable option!
Denis

Hi Denis,
This is very helpful. Do those sources indicate where the standing end was secured in those instances, e.g. seized to the mainstay, shrouds, or eyebolts elsewhere, before being reeved through the brace block?
Thanks again,
Eric

 

[Denis Gaille]

Hello again Eric,
There is one more book book where you can find more details on the rigging of early schooners:
The Schooner by David Mac Gregor.
I hereby attach 2 drawings of the said book that show how different braces are rigged.
Your choice...