Replacing Occre kit rope?

Alan56

Alan56

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Location
Fond du Lac,WI.
I'm getting to the stage in my Occre La Candelaria build where I need to think about the rigging & Ive read that builders sometimes prefer 3rd. party rope. I noticed that my kit rope looks rather fuzzy, especially the tan rope as seen below.


IMG_7178.jpg
I've looked at rope from Ropes of Scale & from Syren Ship Model Co. The tan rope in my kit is .15mm & the closest I can find is from Syren which is .20mm. Will a .5mm larger size look that much different? The dark brown in my kit is .50mm but the closest from Sryen is .45mm.
Below is the shopping cart from Syren. This being my first build I know almost nothing about rigging so I can see a steep learning curve ahead. Once again, my question is about size difference & using a higher quality material. Thanks for any input............Al.IMG_7179.jpg
 
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Hi Alan,

I seriously doubt the Occre rope is 0.15 mm. To measure it wrap the line around something ten or twenty times - keep the wraps snug but not compressed - and then measure the length of the wrapping and divide by the number of wraps. This will give you an accurate measure of the diameter.

Now, to the larger question - on the actual ship there were many (many, many) more sizes of rope in play than the simplicity of the Occre offering might indicate. So now you have to ask yourself the question: do I just want to finish my first model and create a nice looking ship - or am I in pursuit of high level accuracy? There is not a wrong answer here - just helping you shoot at the target you want to be shooting at.

Does the quality of the rope/line matter? In my opinion this decision will have a dramatic impact on the final model. If resources are not limited get the best rope you can.

Helps?
 
dockattner said:
Hi Alan,

I seriously doubt the Occre rope is 0.15 mm. To measure it wrap the line around something ten or twenty times - keep the wraps snug but not compressed - and then measure the length of the wrapping and divide by the number of wraps. This will give you an accurate measure of the diameter.

Now, to the larger question - on the actual ship there were many (many, many) more sizes of rope in play than the simplicity of the Occre offering might indicate. So now you have to ask yourself the question: do I just want to finish my first model and create a nice looking ship - or am I in pursuit of high level accuracy? There is not a wrong answer here - just helping you shoot at the target you want to be shooting at.

Does the quality of the rope/line matter? In my opinion this decision will have a dramatic impact on the final model. If resources are not limited get the best rope you can.

Helps?
Click to expand...
Interesting, 10 wraps is approx. 4mm wide giving me .40mm wide rope. The dark brown rope printed at .50 is actually .70mm. Confusing me is why Occre would print misleading numbers on these spools. I'm assuming rope from 3rd. party vendors is more accurate?

To the "larger question" yes I want a nice looking ship but I'm striving to be as accurate as I possably can with the knowledge I have at the time. Not everthing on my model will be to scale but if there are ways I can get close to scale I'll strive for that.

Yes, the quality of the rope matters if I can possably find a better product which in this case I can. I'll buy the 2 shown in the cart above & go from there.
Thanks for your response.....Al.:)
 
Alan56 said:
Interesting, 10 wraps is approx. 4mm wide giving me .40mm wide rope. The dark brown rope printed at .50 is actually .70mm. Confusing me is why Occre would print misleading numbers on these spools. I'm assuming rope from 3rd. party vendors is more accurate?

To the "larger question" yes I want a nice looking ship but I'm striving to be as accurate as I possably can with the knowledge I have at the time. Not everthing on my model will be to scale but if there are ways I can get close to scale I'll strive for that.

Yes, the quality of the rope matters if I can possably find a better product which in this case I can. I'll buy the 2 shown in the cart above & go from there.
Thanks for your response.....Al.:)
Click to expand...
so just to give you an idea of what you are up against, for accuracy in sizes. I did a look at a ship smaller than what you are working on (HMS Alert) and I saw about a dozen different rope diameters listed. It listed sizes from 1" to 6" in 1/2 increments, plus an 8" and a 13" diameter line. Now, convert those sizes to the scale of your ship (1/85) and see if you will be able to determine a difference in size. The smallest would be 0.3 mm. The next size would be 0.45 mm. The 2" diameter line would be 0.6 mm. And we haven't even begun to talk about what size goes where. Do you have all this documentation on the ship? Can you find it?
How you begin to see what is involved. While wanting to make your model as accurate as possible is commendable, sometimes it's not practical. That is why most kit manufacturers don't put a bunch of different sizes of line in a kit.

I'm not trying to discourage your work here, I'm just trying to make sure you know what you are up against. I would start with trying to get the documentation as to what sizes there are on the ship and where each one goes. Without that, there is no way you can make it completely accurate.

Jeff
 
Thank you Jeff for the information. Occre has info. on the two rope sizes provided with the kit & where they get attached, in schmatic form & also on a 1/1 print. I have yet to find any other info. on this particular ship, historical or a model. If I can get higher quality rope in a few sizes I'll be content with that. I'm still a ways off from rigging but just preparing for what lies ahead. Thanks.......Al.
 
Hey Alan, I am pretty much in same position as you. I am just starting the rigging on my first model which is Occre HMS Beagle. I have the exact rope in my kit. Honestly, if you are like me, the quality of the rope is probably not going to have a huge impact on your model. I find rigging the hardest part so far for me. Building the rope ladders, learning to tie the correct knots, finding out I should have done things in another order so as to make rigging easier, understanding the importance of placing pulleys, deadeyes, etc. with rigging in mind, are all things that will make my 2nd model so much better. I don't think it really matters at our level of rope quality, but sure it's only a few bucks, so , get the best if you can. However, I would also add the tips above plus learn to use beeswax on your rope and get yourself a lot of those little needle threader tools from a sewing shop. Most useful tool I have come across so far.
 
Thanks Gene for providing your tips....much appreciated. I feel if I can improve on the quality of rope it will not only look better but also may be easier to rig. We have a couple sewing shops in town so I'll check them out.
 
Most sources(but not all) list rope sizes as the circumference of the rope so when you're doing the arithmetic remember pi when changing to diameter.
 
jgsandberg said:
another tip I learned rigging the Beagle... wherever possible cut lengths of running rope first and rig to the belaying pins before anything else, doing it last is VERY difficult. You will thank me later.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tip, I have it in my notes.:)
 
Hi Alan,
I'm on my second OcCre ship. First was the Albatros, now I'm on the Endurance. Working on the Albatros, I used wax to help give the cotton thread some shape and take care of some of the fuzz. I took a break after starting the Endurance and did the John Smith Shallop by Pavel. The rope provided was nylon, not cotton. The nylon was a little more difficult to work with. It would unravel at the cut ends so I had to always apply CA glue before I cut. The nylon also didn't tighten on itself like the cotton thread did. There was a learning curve there to get the lines taught with the nylon.
But, I have to say, the nylon looks so much better than the cotton. I am definitely buying aftermarket rope when it gets time to rigging. A little harder to work with, but well worth it in the end, in my opinion. I'm either going with Crafty Sailor or Ropes of Scale. But now thanks to your post I want to look in to Syren also.
Thanks for the post!
Kramer
 
To take the fuzz off thread, I always run it across a small block of bees wax several times. Helps preserve the thread over the long term for those museum quality ships we are all building. lol
Phil
 
I should have added in my reply above, if you get too much wax on the thread, as a final step, run it across a warm light bulb.
Phil
 
Kramer said:
Hi Alan,
I'm on my second OcCre ship. First was the Albatros, now I'm on the Endurance. Working on the Albatros, I used wax to help give the cotton thread some shape and take care of some of the fuzz. I took a break after starting the Endurance and did the John Smith Shallop by Pavel. The rope provided was nylon, not cotton. The nylon was a little more difficult to work with. It would unravel at the cut ends so I had to always apply CA glue before I cut. The nylon also didn't tighten on itself like the cotton thread did. There was a learning curve there to get the lines taught with the nylon.
But, I have to say, the nylon looks so much better than the cotton. I am definitely buying aftermarket rope when it gets time to rigging. A little harder to work with, but well worth it in the end, in my opinion. I'm either going with Crafty Sailor or Ropes of Scale. But now thanks to your post I want to look in to Syren also.
Thanks for the post!
Kramer
Click to expand...
Hey Kramer - a heads-up...Crafty Sailor is closing and their ropes are on sale right now and will soon be unavailable.
 
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