Rope Quality Question

Joined
Jul 9, 2023
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Location
's-Hertogenbosch, Netherlands
Soon I will start with the rigging on my Occre HM Bark Endeavour. However, I am not happy with the quality of the rope supplied with the kit. It is fluffy and does not look like real rope at all. I have rigged my first build (HMS Endurance) with this very same rope - which I even waxed - but I want something more convincing now.
Can anyone inform me whether the ropes provided by AL or Amati (which are obtainable relatively easily in The Netherlands) are any better than the Occre rope? Are there perhaps any other - affordable - alternatives?
I did order some samples from the Dutch firm Kolderstok. This rope is clearly of a better quality, but unfortunately they only produce brown and white, while I would prefer it in a natural colour.


rope_01.jpg

On the left: Kolderstock rope. On the right: Occre rope.
 
Hi ,you can look around here for high quality cotton ropes,No Fuzz!!




 
Hi ,you can look around here for high quality cotton ropes,No Fuzz!!




There is no doubt your rope is superb, but averaging at € 1,00 a meter I wouldn't say it is an 'affordable' alternative, like I specifically asked. The Kolderstok rope at € 0,12 a meter doesn't fuzz either.
 
Лучшая альтернатива коробочным канатам, это изготавливать свои канаты! Плюс в том что можно сделать канат любого нужного диаметра, цвета, и количества.

The best alternative to box ropes is to make your own ropes! The advantage is that you can make a rope of any desired diameter, color, and quantity.
 
Лучшая альтернатива коробочным канатам, это изготавливать свои канаты! Плюс в том что можно сделать канат любого нужного диаметра, цвета, и количества.
Of course you're right, but that is not what I had in mind for now. It would be much easier to simply dye the white Kolderstok rope in the colour I want it. But as it is - you can call me lazy - I am looking for a finished product.
 
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If you want good rope you will have to either buy it or make it. Getting a ropewalk and thread is expensive upfront but you can make a ton of rope for low cost. You can get a ropewalk from https://syrenshipmodelcompany.com/ropewalk.php another option is https://www.shipworkshop.com/. Thread can be bought from me or a local sewing shop. https://www.wawak.com/ also has a lot of threads that are useful for rope-making.

I also have polyester rope available, It's not much cheaper than cotton.
 
I will simplify my question: Can anyone make a quality comparison between Occre, Artesania Latina and Amati rope, based on personal experience?

I am really not interested in making my own rope. Maybe when I have grown up as a ship modeler.
 
I will simplify my question: Can anyone make a quality comparison between Occre, Artesania Latina and Amati rope, based on personal experience?

I am really not interested in making my own rope. Maybe when I have grown up as a ship modeler.
They are not real ropes just some simple threads!!
 
The other members are correct. All three manufacturers do not make proper rope. The difference in appearance between properly wound rope and the twisted fiber strings that Amati, Artesania Latina, and OcCre produce is very different. Dry Dock Models & Parts, Syren Ship Model Company, Ship Workshop (in Russia) and Crafty Sailor all provide excellent rigging rope. Sorry if I left any other good model parts vendors out of that short list. If you want your model to appear at least one step above average, you should be using proper rigging rope.

I have been debating buying an rope walk, but it is very expensive, so buying my rope from model vendors is what I do. Some members here have bought a rope walk and have has excellent results, but it takes time and practice to get the machined tuned properly so the ropes are stable (will not unwind), and they are not underwound or overwound. The links to the vendors above are those I have bought from before and all make excellent rigging rope.

Here is a small example of how sharp and defined proper rigging rope appears on Paul Kattner's Vasa below. The twists can be clearly seen on the smallest ropes of the gun tackles and the coils of line laid atop the fish davit. None of the lines provide by ANY kit come even close to looking this good.
1703588948099.png
 
Alright, I got the picture: it's crap rope - sorry, thread or string.

So what is the best option when you can't spend several hundreds of dollars on just rope, and don't want to make your own?

Any constructive suggestions?
 
I am very sorry but there is no "best" option. You want "gold" standard you have to pay "gold" standard. Even you said it more the once I just can repeat others by saying doing the rope by your own. It is fun! And satisfying. There is no need to buy an expensive ropewalk, just build your own.

You can find lot's of receipts how to turn the rope here on SOS though :)
 
Alright, I got the picture: it's crap rope - sorry, thread or string.

So what is the best option when you can't spend several hundreds of dollars on just rope, and don't want to make your own?

Any constructive suggestions?
Those are the only options. Buy quality rope and spend less money than the cost of a rope walk, and build perhaps 1 or 2 models, or buy or build a rope walk, learn how to use it, and spend time making ropes for lots more models, plus be able to produce ropes in any size you need. Either way, you will be spending up to a couple hundred dollars on rope if you want your rigging to appear in the highest standard of appearance. There is no cheap solution. This is a reality that saddened me a bit too. There's a reason why high quality models are build by so very few people these days. Making decent rigging rope and cable is one of them.
 
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Thank you for your elaborate reply @DARIVS ARCHITECTVS

Do you have any opinions on the Kolderstok rope? There's a picture of it in my original post.
I'm sorry, but I am not familiar with Kolderstok's ropes. It's hard to judge ropes from a photo alone. You need to compare samples to really get an idea how they look. If the rope is made from cotton, quality rope will not have any fuzziness from loose fibers. The cleanest appearance usually comes with poly rope or poly-cotton blend rope. The ropes made on Paul's Wasa above were made by him on a rope walk he purchased, and he used Gutermann thread from Germany, which is a poly-cotton blend, if I am not mistaken. Most modelers with a rope walk used Gutermann thread to make their own ropes that I have seen.
 
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Begroetingen Hatteras,

I'll weigh in here as well if I might. The challenge you face is that you have noticed the difference between scale rope and thread, and you don't think you can ignore the difference. This puts you in a potentially difficult spot. It's sort of like drinking wine...you're pretty happy with what's in the 1-liter bottle until you get a taste of cru-class burgundy and suddenly you realize there is a difference. But now: what to drink?

To answer your above question directly: I am not aware of any budget after-market rope. The materials aren't expensive, and the tool(s) needed to make the ropes need not be expensive, but the learning curve is steep, and it takes SO MUCH TIME to make the needed supply of rope (especially on the size of ship you are contemplating). Being fully aware of this aspect, the after-market suppliers upcharge for their work.

But in my mind the cost is justified. I spent about a year on the rigging of the Vasa. At some point along the way the hours and hours (and hours and hours) I was spending making ropes began to make me frustrated (that is, what started out as a most enjoyable and satisfying experience turned into drudgery).

But let's say I could have purchased all the rope I needed for $400 (just a guess). Spread that over a year and the cost dissipates into the background.

Of course, money is real, and if you are on a shoe-string budget then the tension you feel is not easily resolved. Only you know yourself...would you enjoy the prospect of hand-making all your ropes? Problem solved. Does your hobby-budget establish financial thresholds? Again, problem solved (albeit with a level of dissatisfaction). Does the quality of the final outcome trump all other measures? Then you also know what you have to do (make or buy).

Speaking for myself, in the future I plan on celebrating that there are suppliers out there that make some amazing ropes. I'll just make it my Christmas present / birthday present / odd job income spend for one year of my life and consider it money well-spent.

I feel your pain my friend!
 
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Begroetingen Hatteras,

I'll weigh in here as well if I might. The challenge you face is that you have noticed the difference between scale rope and thread, and you don't think you can ignore the difference. This puts you in a potentially difficult spot. It's sort of like drinking wine...you're pretty happy with what's in the 1-liter bottle until you get a taste of cru-class burgundy and suddenly you realize there is a difference. But now: what to drink?

To answer your above question directly: I am not aware of any budget after-market rope. The materials aren't expensive, and the tool(s) needed to make the ropes need not be expensive, but the learning curve is steep, and it takes SO MUCH TIME to make the needed supply of rope (especially on the size of ship you are contemplating). Being fully aware of this aspect, the after-market suppliers upcharge for their work.

But in my mind the cost is justified. I spent about a year on the rigging of the Vasa. At some point along the way the hours and hours (and hours and hours) I was spending making ropes began to make me frustrated (that is, what started out as a most enjoyable and satisfying experience turned into drudgery).

But let's say I could have purchased all the rope I needed for $400 (just a guess). Spread that over a year and the cost dissipates into the background.

Of course, money is real, and if you are on a shoe-string budget then the tension you feel is not easily resolved. Only you know yourself...would you enjoy the prospect of hand-making all your ropes? Problem solved. Does your hobby-budget establish thresholds? Again, problem solved (albeit with a level of dissatisfaction). Does the quality of the final outcome trump all other measures? Then you also know what you have to do (make or buy).

Speaking for myself, in the future I plan on celebrating that there are suppliers out there that make some amazing ropes. I'll just make it my Christmas present / birthday present / odd job income spend for one year of my life and consider it money well-spent.

I feel your pain my friend!

Thank you for your emphatic analysis @dockattner !

I think your estimate of $400 is not far of. Indeed I am on a tight budget, but of course in the end it is all a matter of choice. So if I really wanted to I could actually choose to spend this kind of money without having to economize on essentials.

But that's not the whole story. The retail price of this kit is about €320 (I got it for €260), which I think is good value for money. However the materials used are of course not the best. No walnut and boxwood, but plywood and lime wood for example. Real ropes combined with plywood deck furniture, wouldn't that be like installing golden taps on a budget bathtub? It also would not be the end. The composite deadeyes and blocks would be next in line to be replaced. These don't come cheap either.

And then there is this. Building a wooden model ship takes a long time. So in the process one develops skills and increases knowledge. Halfway one regrets choices that are made or not made in the beginning of the build, in spite of ample preparation. For instance, at a certain point I decided to make some of the parts of an alternative, more suitable kind of wood than supplied with the kit, especially these parts that needed to be carved. But still the parts that I made before are of a lesser quality wood, and this shows. It is unfortunately too much of a hassle to replace these. On the other hand I did break away the original - superglued - decorations of the stern and replaced them with more convincing ones. This was quite a decision to make because of the risk of irreversible damage, but I'm very happy with the result now. The cost of these adaptations however was modest. The dilemma is, should't one at one point - within reasonable limits - accept things as they are and save any newly acquired insights for the next build? Particularly because some of the bad choices, either your own or the manufacturers, simply cannot be undone.
But of course with each next ship the whole thing starts all over again...

Finally one more thing to consider. I still have so much to learn. This is only my second ship, and I even lack any former experience in woodworking. Shouldn't I first develop my skills and only then start using fancy materials?

To conclude: I still think the Kolderstok rope/thread could be a nice compromise.

PS: Your Vasa looks magnificent. I remember it attracting my attention on this forum before.
 
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I think everyone who begins this hobby should read what you just wrote! You have described every modeler's experience (at least the ones who stick with it) perfectly.

But, for your particular case I believe you have now arrived at your best decision:
The dilemma is, should't one at one point - within reasonable limits - accept things as they are and save any newly acquired insights for the next build?

You'll be a master builder in no time!
 
Some excellent posts in this thread especially Mike’s @Hatteras sensible discussion of a new ship builder’s dilemma as modelling experience grows. I can relate to everything you wrote Mike.

I’m also looking back at Ben’s @BenD post #6. His rope is also well worth considering as you search for alternatives. It’s impressive rope. (I’m not affiliated - just a happy customer).

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