Rope Quality Question

I'm a first-timer, but as a long time modeler, I knew immediately before even getting started that if I was putting the effort into this kind of build, fuzzy thread was not going on my ship. After watching Olha's ropewalk video, I decided to put together my own using spur & pinion gears for an RC truck from a local hobby shop. The brass rod, bearings, and collars were off Amazon, and this head stock was put together for around $40. As goofy as it may look, the tail stock is just a rigged up old cordless drill on a trolley with a counterweight. Even though my first ropes (pictured) are in need of some technique work, the difference is still night & day. These are from Gutterman threads for sales at Ropes of Scale.

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Hatteras said:
There is no doubt your rope is superb, but averaging at € 1,00 a meter I wouldn't say it is an 'affordable' alternative, like I specifically asked. The Kolderstok rope at € 0,12 a meter doesn't fuzz either.
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Dry-Dock could maybe make available larger packs of its superb stuff at more affordable everage costs. Six metres of rope, considered the vast quantities needed even for a small craft, trouble me much more than the 1 euro per metre.
 
Who is going to look at your completed model with a magnifying glass and a pedantic eye? I agree that OcCre thread is a bit fuzzy and an effective dust trap. It is, though, very pliable and user friendly. It wraps round sharp turns and stays knotted. It is very good for deadeye lanyards. Some synthetic ropes are a bit springy, will not stay knotted and need CN, rather than PVA glue to secure. For general use without being too obsessive I have found Amati rope very satisfactory.
 
Short John Bronze said:
I agree that OcCre thread is a bit fuzzy and an effective dust trap. It is, though, very pliable and user friendly. It wraps round sharp turns and stays knotted. It is very good for deadeye lanyards. Some synthetic ropes are a bit springy, will not stay knotted and need CN, rather than PVA glue to secure.
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Your divergent opinion is refreshing I must say. You also mention some disadvantages of real rope that I was not aware of, and that have so far not been discussed by the advocates.

For general use without being too obsessive I have found Amati rope very satisfactory.
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I think I will order some samples of Amati rope to try it out. Is it much different than Occre rope?

Who is going to look at your completed model with a magnifying glass and a pedantic eye?
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The members of this forum are! (And of course I am.) If it wasn't for the wonders of close-up smartphone photography this would be a very different discussion.
 
FrankW said:
I'm a first-timer, but as a long time modeler, I knew immediately before even getting started that if I was putting the effort into this kind of build, fuzzy thread was not going on my ship. After watching Olha's ropewalk video, I decided to put together my own using spur & pinion gears for an RC truck from a local hobby shop. The brass rod, bearings, and collars were off Amazon, and this head stock was put together for around $40. As goofy as it may look, the tail stock is just a rigged up old cordless drill on a trolley with a counterweight. Even though my first ropes (pictured) are in need of some technique work, the difference is still night & day. These are from Gutterman threads for sales at Ropes of Scale.

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Oh, I HAVE to make one of these!
 
Hatteras said:
You also mention some disadvantages of real rope that I was not aware of, and that have so far not been discussed by the advocates.
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For the sake of clarity... Mr. Bronze was saying that ropes made from synthetic fibers require CA rather than PVA to secure the knot. The topic here is synthetic (polyester) ropes versus cotton ropes - not ropes versus threads.

Ropes can be made from polyester source threads or from cotton source threads. Poly 'tends to be' less frizzy though I have seen frizzy poly ropes and really nice (not too frizzy) cotton ropes, so it is really all about the quality of the source threads (again, with the overall idea that poly does tend to be less frizzy than cotton in the end).

And yes, ropes made from poly source threads cannot be secured with PVA (indeed, the water-based PVA glues just sit on the surface of poly ropes). CA (or similar) must be used to secure those knots. Ropes made from cotton source threads can be secured with either adhesive.

Hope this helps.
 
dockattner said:
For the sake of clarity... Mr. Bronze was saying that ropes made from synthetic fibers require CA rather than PVA to secure the knot. The topic here is synthetic (polyester) ropes versus cotton ropes - not ropes versus threads.

Ropes can be made from polyester source threads or from cotton source threads. Poly 'tends to be' less frizzy though I have seen frizzy poly ropes and really nice (not too frizzy) cotton ropes, so it is really all about the quality of the source threads (again, with the overall idea that poly does tend to be less frizzy than cotton in the end).

And yes, ropes made from poly source threads cannot be secured with PVA (indeed, the water-based PVA glues just sit on the surface of poly ropes). CA (or similar) must be used to secure those knots. Ropes made from cotton source threads can be secured with either adhesive.

Hope this helps.
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I had understood that, but thank you for elaborating on the subject, it does help. This forum consists of both masters and novices, so it's easy to misunderstand.
 
Hatteras said:
I had understood that, but thank you for elaborating on the subject, it does help. This forum consists of both masters and novices, so it's easy to misunderstand.
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You are most welcome. I invested countless hours on this rope-making boondoggle, so I have more to say on the subject than I ordinarily contribute... For the record, count me in the novice camp (though I'm learning as fast as I can ROTF).
 
Hatteras said:
Your divergent opinion is refreshing I must say. You also mention some disadvantages of real rope that I was not aware of, and that have so far not been discussed by the advocates.


I think I will order some samples of Amati rope to try it out. Is it much different than Occre rope?


The members of this forum are! (And of course I am.) If it wasn't for the wonders of close-up smartphone photography this would be a very different discussion.
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Веревки Amati из набора Vanguard

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Hatteras said:
Soon I will start with the rigging on my Occre HM Bark Endeavour. However, I am not happy with the quality of the rope supplied with the kit. It is fluffy and does not look like real rope at all. I have rigged my first build (HMS Endurance) with this very same rope - which I even waxed - but I want something more convincing now.
Can anyone inform me whether the ropes provided by AL or Amati (which are obtainable relatively easily in The Netherlands) are any better than the Occre rope? Are there perhaps any other - affordable - alternatives?
I did order some samples from the Dutch firm Kolderstok. This rope is clearly of a better quality, but unfortunately they only produce brown and white, while I would prefer it in a natural colour.


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On the left: Kolderstock rope. On the right: Occre rope.
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Hi I am building the same model and I too are not are not happy with the rigging supplied. What I have done is to run the thread through a candle flame a few times and this does get rid of the fuzz. On my last model which was the Victory I made my own and it does make a difference but it is a lot of work. with the Endeavour I might make some depending on the look of the Occre thread. But the candle flame does work, wax the thread first and it is even better. Good luck
 
I judge rope by three criteria: no fuzzies, no twisties, and scale. I have found acceptable rope meeting these three criteria in strange places…including a craft twine from a crafting store that was amazingly good…but good rope from the on line sources is ideal…
 
I have purchase rope from rope and scale and the quality was very good.
I also have sent him rope off old ship that I have been restoring to match the color.
he matches the color of the old rope and made some for me.
 
dockattner said:
I'll weigh in here as well if I might. The challenge you face is that you have noticed the difference between scale rope and thread, and you don't think you can ignore the difference. This puts you in a potentially difficult spot. It's sort of like drinking wine...you're pretty happy with what's in the 1-liter bottle until you get a taste of cru-class burgundy and suddenly you realize there is a difference. But now: what to drink?
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Dockattner hit the point here, I think. Before you know that other real quality ropes are available, you think kit rope, or even thread, is fine. My first ship model used one size of thread for the entire model. I didn't know better, and I was happy with the result. You have discovered that some rope is better than others, and I hope you receive a real answer on your question of AL vs Amati vs other less expensive rope. You have to decide what is best for you, what you can afford and what you are willing to put into your model. My Carrack is the first model for which I have used 3rd party rope. While the kit by MarisStella came with Amati rope, I wanted something better. I really wanted RopesOfScale, but at close to $200 could not rationalize it. I settled for rope from Modellbau-Takelgarn in Germany, at about a third the price. Not cheap but not so expensive. It looks good, but I don't think it's the quality of RopesOfScale, as it's not easy to work with and has slight fuzz. That is my compromise. You will have to decide what yours is. When you display your model to your friends, none of them will know the difference, only you.
 
Hatteras said:
Soon I will start with the rigging on my Occre HM Bark Endeavour. However, I am not happy with the quality of the rope supplied with the kit. It is fluffy and does not look like real rope at all. I have rigged my first build (HMS Endurance) with this very same rope - which I even waxed - but I want something more convincing now.
Can anyone inform me whether the ropes provided by AL or Amati (which are obtainable relatively easily in The Netherlands) are any better than the Occre rope? Are there perhaps any other - affordable - alternatives?
I did order some samples from the Dutch firm Kolderstok. This rope is clearly of a better quality, but unfortunately they only produce brown and white, while I would prefer it in a natural colour.


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On the left: Kolderstock rope. On the right: Occre rope.
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Thank you for your input @bianco55 and @danielsje and @Signet

Meanwhile I have already taken the plunge and ordered rope directly from Amati in Italy (thank you @Winter ). It seems that - although it is not comparable with real rope - it is a considerable step ahead compared to Occre rope and at a fraction of the price of real rope. Another consideration to replace the rope was my 'discovery' that the scale of the rope that is supplied with the Endeavour kit is not always correct. Since postage had to be paid anyway, I also took the opportunity to order real wooden blocks and deadeyes from Amati. These can be stained in contrast to the composite ones in the kit. That's another problem solved.

I have tried waxing and 'burning' the rope, but for me the limited resulting improvement (e.i. easier threading) is not worth the cumbersome process.

I reckon I will be working on Endeavour for another six months. I do not know what my next build will be, but it will probably involve real rope.
 
Old timers used to use only linen thread for rigging because it lasts forever (as in mummies in Egypt long). I found some at a shoe repair shop and also in an art store that sells linen thread for book binding, which comes pre-waxed. I dye them with natural dyes like onion skin, octopus black ink, etc. to get to the colors I want and wax them using bee wax if they aren't already. If I need a smaller diameter, I unwind the thread and put it in my rope walk to remake it. Tedious, but classic!
 
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