rope coils

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

NIce precise coils. Two questions: are the carriages from kit parts? If not their scale and thickness of side material is larger than in scale with the cannons. The other is that when the cast rings were placed on later barrels they are on top of the cascabel and not below as you show in this trial setup. You will be working very small and fine to cut and place the cap squares over the trunnions and their securing components. An excellent reference for the carriages is Building 18th Century Artillery by Damian Siekonic. While for almost full sized guns, these are for salute guns, the principles and proportions are the same. I like to think about the space required for a gun crew of 14 around a 32 pounder, including the gun captain at the breach and two boys running powder charges and shot from below. That leaves six or seven present in lines on each side of the gun with their assigned loading/firing/reloading procedures. WHOOMMMMM!!!! PT-2

The cannons on the upper gun deck shown are Corel kit ones. The cannon placement relative to deck supports does not leave room for the gun crew. The kit has several problems. As for the cast rings, I'll get it right on the next ship! Thanks PT-2 for the tips. Always learning more stuff on this forum....
You got a book on 17th century artillery?

 

[PT-2]

The cannons on the upper gun deck shown are Corel kit ones. The cannon placement relative to deck supports does not leave room for the gun crew. The kit has several problems. As for the cast rings, I'll get it right on the next ship! Thanks PT-2 for the tips. Always learning more stuff on this forum....
You got a book on 17th century artillery?

Yes, my firing scale cannon is really fun to shoot and learn the elevations for different ranges. It is tricky though with the tapered bolster which is limited in how far to place it in or out for elevation changes. If I wanted to cheat I would add a threaded rod and spoked nut for fine elevation adjustments with better control and a means to set the same elevation again. I have spent some time on my own and with my very well informed younger brother in not only the guns but also ship handling back then. Gunnery was a matter of luck for the most part as the ship was continually pitching and rolling. He has told me that the majority of engagements were around 50 yards apart. The shot did not do the damage but it was the fragmentation of the wood or stones on shore that created injuries and death. He is telling me that I am at least matching if not bettering the accuracy of those old guns in my scaled size and ranges. WHOOMMMM!!!!!!! I am only responsible for my own actions and not those of others who may use anything that I have put up on this topic of actual firing mini-cannons. PT-2

 

[TKAM]

I think I saw how to do this pictorially somewhere, not sure where but this is how I make rope coils for belaying points like pin racks and such.

 

[Uwek]

Take a look at the post made by @Donnie

Donnie's HMS Blandford Cross Section Build: 1/32 Scale [COMPLETED BUILD]

Thank you Kurt and Uwe, et al. Now, to prepare the ring bolts and other hardware for the final rigging, including having to make my own blocks. I still have not found a breeching line that I am happy with. I just used a tiny file to make the grooves on the blocks. Sorry that I did not include...

shipsofscale.com

 

[dearg]

My method was very simple. I made a platform on a stick with a 2cmx2cm square piece of double faced tape. You lay a length of line onto the tape with he line in one hand and guide the press the line onto the tape by tapping it with the tip of your razor knife into the coil shape. Then coat the coil with two applications of PVA glue. Allow to dry. Pry the coil off the tape with the edge of the razor knife. Glue them to your deck. Done! I made both left and right hand coils. The coils shown are 1:100 scale, a bit smaller than most people need.

View attachment 189254

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Thanks for the information,and your reply. George

 

[dearg]

I think I saw how to do this pictorially somewhere, not sure where but this is how I make rope coils for belaying points like pin racks and such.

Many thanks for this video. This will be my next task after the cannons. I have used your build log to guide me through my first build of the Rattlesnake.

 

[Jeff T]

I am with Donnie on this one. The Flemish coils look great and are a testament to the modeler's skill (and patience). However, I don't think they would be used for everyday use on a warship. They look like trip hazards on a wet, moving and dark deck. I attached a picture from HMS Victory that shows what I think is a more realistic everyday rigging for the guns.

 

[PT-2]

I am with Donnie on this one. The Flemish coils look great and are a testament to the modeler's skill (and patience). However, I don't think they would be used for everyday use on a warship. They look like trip hazards on a wet, moving and dark deck. I attached a picture from HMS Victory that shows what I think is a more realistic everyday rigging for the guns.View attachment 189446

Yes, this is a configuration for tourist viewing and walking where I believe that the have eliminated all of the deck tripping hazards that they could. Notice the breach restraining hawser is not present or passing through the cast ring on top of the cascabel on this style of barrel and have coiled it on the bulkhead as seen in the next gun over. It appears that they are alternating one side or the other to lay the outhaul tackle over the breach in front of the vent. The outhaul was not meant to withstand the recoil in firing but that is not clear to a casual viewer onboard. Also the did not rig the inhaul tackle at the rear of the carriage as it too would be a tourist's tripping hazard. Given the spacing and gundeck area around each gun we can see how the gun crew could place a line of five or six on each side of the carriage with their assigned tasks in the firing process. This photo is more clear and better framed that those that I have previously seen facing from the other side. Models will always be what the builder wants to present or leave out. It is easier at the larger sized model than the small ones. Just some thoughts. PT-2

 

[Uwek]

I feel a little embarrased having to ask this question,but here it goes. Can anyone give me a tip as to how to make neat rope coils. My attempts so far are terrible.

Hallo @dearg
we wish you all the BEST and a HAPPY BIRTHDAY

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

So, I guess I have to be contrary and ask really the dumbest question. All the neat and tidy coils must have been done this way obviously when the cannons are not being used, but in heavy warfare, that would not be the case, but rather messy???
. . . and as a matter of fact, while I was searching for the exact same thing so that I can rig my cannons, I saw a picture of a deck of a ship that even though the Cannons were NOT being used, the lines were just 'heaped' or coils piled up - so, which also begs the question, is the practice of coiling the ropes a 'real thing' or is this just something that a modeler started a long time ago. I am only curious and not trying to start a huge discussion about it.

you made me smile Donnie

any working ship i have been on look like this. Those tidy little coils on models are just that its a model thing and not really how things look.



besides that there isn't that much rope used with a cannon to even coil

 

[Namabiiru]

What a fun and informative discussion.

In regards to PT-2’s observation above that the outhaul tackle was not meant to withstand the recoil, I had been wondering about that very thing. Was it unhooked just prior to firing, and then hooked back up immediately after? I’m also curious how they would relax the outhaul tackle up after running the gun out in preparation for the next volley. working against the leverage of those double and triple sheaved blocks, i wouldn’t think it would be an easy matter of just pulling the hook back.

In reference to Dave‘s comment on the neatness of loose ropes; if any of the depictions of the Royal Navy I’ve seen/read about in dramatizations of the age of sail are to be believed, the RN were quite uptight about keeping everything neat and tidy when not actually in action. Merchantmen in particular seemed to be the objects of quite a bit of derision from those in His Majesty’s service owing to their comparatively laid back approach to such things. So I think either approach (to coil or not to coil, that is the question!) would potentially be correct, depending on the subject and presentation.

But I confess to being more a student of historical fiction than history…

 

[PT-2]

What a fun and informative discussion.

In regards to PT-2’s observation above that the outhaul tackle was not meant to withstand the recoil, I had been wondering about that very thing. Was it unhooked just prior to firing, and then hooked back up immediately after? I’m also curious how they would relax the outhaul tackle up after running the gun out in preparation for the next volley. working against the leverage of those double and triple sheaved blocks, i wouldn’t think it would be an easy matter of just pulling the hook back.

In reference to Dave‘s comment on the neatness of loose ropes; if any of the depictions of the Royal Navy I’ve seen/read about in dramatizations of the age of sail are to be believed, the RN were quite uptight about keeping everything neat and tidy when not actually in action. Merchantmen in particular seemed to be the objects of quite a bit of derision from those in His Majesty’s service owing to their comparatively laid back approach to such things. So I think either approach (to coil or not to coil, that is the question!) would potentially be correct, depending on the subject and presentation.

But I confess to being more a student of historical fiction than history…

I think that your answer to ropes and lines is what your own goal is????? Once you determine that, then you will be able to decide how much and how to place those lines. You are correct about the vast difference between a working vessel and one moored at a pier for display/inspection. Just some thoughts, d Rich (PT-2)

 

[Namabiiru]

I think that your answer to ropes and lines is what your own goal is????? Once you determine that, then you will be able to decide how much and how to place those lines. You are correct about the vast difference between a working vessel and one moored at a pier for display/inspection. Just some thoughts, d Rich (PT-2)

Actually, my question in the first paragraph was more in relation to the actual handling of the guns in action. Not really anything to do with modeling so much as curiosity about how the rigging of the gun functioned IRL.

As to my point (more like, observation/conjecture) in the second paragraph, i think you nailed it.

 

[Uwek]

Actually, my question in the first paragraph was more in relation to the actual handling of the guns in action. Not really anything to do with modeling so much as curiosity about how the rigging of the gun functioned IRL.

As to my point (more like, observation/conjecture) in the second paragraph, i think you nailed it.

There are some nice paintings showing the sequence of firing







for bigger guns there were much more seamen necessary - all together 10 men

 

[Namabiiru]

Appears from those drawings the outhaul tackle remains attached to the carriage when the gun is fired, which makes sense, but it must put an awful strain on the tackle.

 

[PT-2]

Appears from those drawings the outhaul tackle remains attached to the carriage when the gun is fired, which makes sense, but it must put an awful strain on the tackle.

These are good illustrations of the sequence. Jean B. has a very detailed text of the firing orders and sequence in his work on the guns. Rich

 

[Oktay Yaylacıkoral]

ben böyle yaptım

this is how i did it

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

ben böyle yaptım

that's what I did

 

[Oktay Yaylacıkoral]

ben öyle yaptım

video yükledim ama olmadı

I uploaded a video but it didn't work

 

[Uwek]

video yükledim ama olmadı

I uploaded a video but it didn't work

Please upload the video on youtube and add here the link - the easiest way