Book review Sovereign of the Seas 1637-John McKay

NMBROOK said:
Michael
Here is the link but sadly out of stock currently as with most things at the moment

Laser Etched Windows Sovereign of the Seas

Laser etched window set for the Sovereign of the Seas 787 165x120mm
www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk

Kind Regards

Nigel
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You could also find a local laser cutter who could do the work. It will be a little more expensive because the cost lies in setting up the machine with the pattern, not the cutting.
 
Being new to ShipsofScale, I subscribed a few days ago, and it immediately pay's out. The built of my 'Sergal Sovereign of the Seas' is pretty much halfway and I was really worried how to continue with the sails and rigging. John McKay's book about the Sovereign of the Seas 1637 seems to tell it all. I'm a happy man!
Sovereign Bakboord Resized.jpg
 
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JanVolante said:
Being new to ShipsofScale, I subscribed a few days ago, and it immediately pay's out. The built of my 'Sergal Sovereign of the Seas' is pretty much halfway and I was really worried how to continue with the sails and rigging. John McKay's book about the Sovereign of the Seas 1637 seems to tell it all. I'm a happy man! View attachment 165608
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We would like to see your SOS in build log
 
JanVolante said:
Being new to ShipsofScale, I subscribed a few days ago, and it immediately pay's out. The built of my 'Sergal Sovereign of the Seas' is pretty much halfway and I was really worried how to continue with the sails and rigging. John McKay's book about the Sovereign of the Seas 1637 seems to tell it all. I'm a happy man! View attachment 165608
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Hallo and a warm welcome here on board of our forum.
We are very happy, that our forum was already helping you giving hints and tips.
Your model is looking very good - so we would like to ask you to show us your model in a building log - you can also start directly from the actual status - Would be great
 
JanVolante said:
Being new to ShipsofScale, I subscribed a few days ago, and it immediately pay's out. The built of my 'Sergal Sovereign of the Seas' is pretty much halfway and I was really worried how to continue with the sails and rigging. John McKay's book about the Sovereign of the Seas 1637 seems to tell it all. I'm a happy man!
View attachment 165608
Click to expand...
Hallo @JanVolante ,
we wish you all the BEST and a HAPPY BIRTHDAY
Birthday-Cake
Hope to see your model more in detail - looking very good
 
NMBROOK said:
Maarten I looked at the transom in the Lely portrait,the planking lines are in an arc,if the transom was flat,these would be straight in a diagonal fashion.That is how I reached the decision.

Kind Regards

Nigel
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That is the same reason that I opted for the ‘round tuck’ on my SOS. There is definately a curvature to the planks in the Lely Portrait. Below is my version of the round tuck.

1616261838628.jpeg

Regards,
Bill
 
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Hello I would like to get 1/48 scale plans to build this boat just like the book. How do I get these plans in blow version. I know u said it was 15 dollars per sheet. How many total sheets is there and total price to have all the plans. I already have this book. It looks like a very fun project. Thanks and my name is william
 
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wgrigsby2001 said:
Hello I would like to get 1/48 scale plans to build this boat just like the book. How do I get these plans in blow version. I know u said it was 15 dollars per sheet. How many total sheets is there and total price to have all the plans. I already have this book. It looks like a very fun project. U can email me back at w.grigsby2001@gmail.com with the infoe. Thanks and my name is william
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In the book is information on how to contact John McKay and order his plans. Be advised that McKay's interpretation of HMS Sovereign of the Seas is fraught with errors, most of them stemming from his using sources from 70-100 years after the ship was built. That is not to say that the book is not worth consulting. The decorations seems to be the best content. The shape of the hull (especially the transom at the stern) and use of fittings like ladders and companionways, and capstans, and the particularly the design of the frames in the hull are way off the mark. At least if you are building a plank-on-bulkhead model, the worst mistakes in McKay's design, the framing, is not relevant. For more discussion of McKay's design, read the first few pages of my build log. Like myself and many others, to build a model of the Sovereign as historically accurate as possible, you will have to rely on several sources including McKay's book to piece together a basic model design and fill in the blanks with your own researched guesses. Such is the way of building all 17th century ship models.
 
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wgrigsby2001 said:
Hello I would like to get 1/48 scale plans to build this boat just like the book. How do I get these plans in blow version. I know u said it was 15 dollars per sheet. How many total sheets is there and total price to have all the plans. I already have this book. It looks like a very fun project. Thanks and my name is william
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Hi William,

I have removed your personal email address from this post. I do have the email address from John mcKay and I also have his 1:48 scale drawings which I ordeted from him by email.

I will forward you his email in a PM so you can contact him directly.
 
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
In the book is information on how to contact John McKay and order his plans. Be advised that McKay's interpretation of HMS Sovereign of the Seas is fraught with errors, most of them stemming from his using sources from 70-100 years after the ship was built. That is not to say that the book is not worth consulting. The decorations seems to be the best content. The shape of the hull (especially the transom at the stern) and use of fittings like ladders and companionways, and capstans, and the particularly the design of the frames in the hull are way off the mark. At least if you are building a plank-on-bulkhead model, the worst mistakes in McKay's design, the framing, is not relevant. For more discussion of McKay's design, read the first few pages of my build log. Like myself and many others, to build a model of the Sovereign as historically accurate as possible, you will have to rely on several sources including McKay's book to piece together a basic model design and fill in the blanks with your own researched guesses. Such is the way of building all 17th century ship models.
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I totally agree with you Kurt.

However there is one thing Mc Kay has offered modellers that some may agree/disagree with. However much one may dispute the books contents, this is the first Anatomy book to cover an English ship of the period. This would allow a modeller to build a model from scratch of this vessel to enter a Naviga competition with.Previously, this was impossible as you cannot enter this competition with a scratch built model based on conjecture with any hope of getting a decent score. Anyone familiar with the rules will know that you have to follow a source of historical reference, any deviation from that, you would need pretty much cast iron reference to deviate from your original source.This is why models of French vessels have such a big presence in this competition due to the detailed nature of the monographs available.

The controversial thing for some is that Naviga places emphasis on how accurate the model follows the drawings even if the drawings are deemed by many to be correct.In theory, a perfectly scratch built model that follows this book exactly could achieve full marks.

I realise competition is not for everyone and to me it can become a case of taking a hobby far too seriously that it becomes more like a day job, but it is nice that the builders that do, have a source of reference they can use to build a vessel that was once a "no go for the purists".For this reason alone, I applaud John McKay for taking the risk publishing this book on a subject so fraught with debate.

Kind Regards

Nigel
 
NMBROOK said:
I totally agree with you Kurt.

However there is one thing Mc Kay has offered modellers that some may agree/disagree with. However much one may dispute the books contents, this is the first Anatomy book to cover an English ship of the period. This would allow a modeller to build a model from scratch of this vessel to enter a Naviga competition with.Previously, this was impossible as you cannot enter this competition with a scratch built model based on conjecture with any hope of getting a decent score. Anyone familiar with the rules will know that you have to follow a source of historical reference, any deviation from that, you would need pretty much cast iron reference to deviate from your original source.This is why models of French vessels have such a big presence in this competition due to the detailed nature of the monographs available.

The controversial thing for some is that Naviga places emphasis on how accurate the model follows the drawings even if the drawings are deemed by many to be correct.In theory, a perfectly scratch built model that follows this book exactly could achieve full marks.

I realise competition is not for everyone and to me it can become a case of taking a hobby far too seriously that it becomes more like a day job, but it is nice that the builders that do, have a source of reference they can use to build a vessel that was once a "no go for the purists".For this reason alone, I applaud John McKay for taking the risk publishing this book on a subject so fraught with debate.

Kind Regards

Nigel
Click to expand...
Fully agree here with you Nigel. McKay dared to stick his head above the ground with his work.
It is for sue a source to build into a beautiful model in which you put your own interpretation as long as you don t compete in Navigia.
All these sources will add to our knowledge about SotS.
 
Uwek said:
Hallo Nigel,
Many Many thanks for the interesting Book Review - it is good, that you made it, knowing so much about the ship.
Only one additional word referring your comparison to ancre publications. From acre you get for the money a complete monograph incl. a complete set of drawings in the usual modeling scale, means f.e. 1:48. This book about the Sovereign has no drawings attached, you have to buy them in addition via direct contact to the author John McKay. Interesting to know would be, how much the planset of the Sovereign would cost? I think there is nothing written in the book.
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I contacted the Author John Mckay, the only drawings available are the ones included within the book,




SOVEREIGN OF THE SEAS DRAWINGS –

- 68 Drawings as listed and similar to those published in Sovereign of the Seas 1637 A RECONSTRUCTION OF THE MOST POWERFUL WARSHIP OF ITS DAY by Seaforth Publishing, Barnsley.

- All drawings are protected by International Copyright.

- All prices are in United States dollars.

- Due to the price of printing, postage and fuel I cannot accept orders under $200.00.

- Please add 15% to orders for shipping.

- The price is subject to change without notice and includes mailing costs by air. Usually a tracking number is given. (Other shipping arrangements, such as by courier, can be made if preferred.) The drawings will be sent in a rolled format.

- Drawing scales and sheet sizes: The drawings were executed at a base scale of 1 to 48 (1/4” = 1’– 0”). This produced a sheet size of 36” X 60”. (The base scale is for the hull; details are drawn larger and the rigging drawings are at about one half of the base scale.) However, with modern copying machines almost any scale (Imperial or Metric) is available up to 1 to 48 so the prices given are for two examples only. Please contact me for a price for other scales.

- Pricing examples:

Base scale 1 to 48, Sheet size 36” X 60” - $15.00 per sheet.

Base scale 1 to 96, Sheet size 18” X 30” – $10.00 per sheet.

- Coloured illustrations: Because the sizes and requirements of coloured illustrations (those reproduced from pages 68 to 80) can vary dramatically, please contact me for a quote.

SOVEREIGN OF THE SEAS DRAWINGS:

SHEET No. PAGE No. DRAWING

(PLATE No.) (From Book)

COVER SHEET -

1 End Papers Outboard Profile and Weather Decks (Rendered)

HULL FORM –

2 152-3 Body Lines Sweeps, Body Lines, Body Lines Comparison and Body lines Isometrics

3 154- 5 Dimensions Profile

4 156-7 Body Plan, Body Line Sweeps

5 158-9 Sheer Plan and Lines Plan

HULL -

6 160-1 Outboard Profile (Decoration) and Weather Decks Plan

7 162-3 Outboard Profile (Plank) and Upper Deck Plan

8 164-5 Inboard Profile and Second Deck Plan

9 166-7 Gundeck Plan and Section Details

10 168-9 Orlop Deck, Quarter Deck and Poop Deck Plans, Bow Isometric (Head

Rails), Beakhead Detail and Section

11 170-1 Hold Plan, Bow Isometric and Section Details

12 172-3 Sections at ‘&’, ‘Z’, ‘W’, ‘T’, ‘Q’, ‘M’, and ‘J’

13 174-5 Sections at ‘F’, ‘C’, ‘Φ’, ‘3’, ‘6’, ‘9’ and ‘12’

14 176-7 Sections at ‘15’, ‘18’, ‘21’, ‘24’, ‘27’, ‘30’ and ‘33’

15 178-9 Stern Elevation, Sections at ‘36’ and Upper Deck, Quarter Deck and Poop Deck Isometrics

16 180-1 Hull Isometric (Decoration)

17 182-3 Inboard Profile (Isometric)

18 184-5 Gun Deck and Second Deck Isometrics

19 186-7 Hold and Orlop Deck Isometrics

FRAMING -

20 188-9 Framing Profile and Framing Plan

21 190-1 Keel, Gun port, Wale, Beams, Rider and Rider Knee Details and Beveling of Frames

22 192-3 Second Deck, Upper Deck, Forecastle Deck, Quarter Deck, Poop Deck and Coach Deck Framing Plans

23 194-5 Orlop Deck and Gundeck Framing Plans, Bow and Stern Framing

24 196-7 Keel and Stern Framing Isometrics, Framing Details

25 198-9 Frames Isometric

26 200-1 Exterior Plank Isometric

27 202-3 Interior Plank Isometric

28 204-5 Upper Deck, Forecastle Deck, Quarter Deck, Poop Deck and Coach Deck Framing Isometrics

29 206-7 Orlop Deck, Gundeck and Second Deck Framing Isometrics

STEERING AND PUMPS -

30 208-9 Steering Details and Pump Details

GROUND TACKLE –

31 210-1 Ground Tackle Details

32 212-3 Ground Tackle Details

ACCOMMODATION -

33 214-5 Officer Accommodation (Cabin Bulkhead Paneling) and Cooking Facilities

DECORATION -

34 216-7 Stern Decoration

35(R) 218-9 Based on Payne: Head Rails, Figure Head and Miscellaneous Details

36(R) 220-1 Based on Payne: Bow Decoration Isometric, Beakhead Bulkhead, Gun port Decoration and Six Figures

37 222-3 Based on Payne: Hull Decoration Forward and Aft

38(R) 224-5 Based on Payne: Quarter Galleries Decoration and Section. Stern Lantern Details

39(R) 226-7 Based on Payne: Stern Decoration Isometric. Poop Deck Bulkhead

40(R) 228-9 Based on Van de Velde: Head Rails, Figure Head and Miscellaneous Details

41(R) 230-1 Based on Van de Velde: Bow Decoration Isometric, Beakhead Bulkhead,

Gun port Decoration and Six Figures

42 232-3 Based on Van de Velde: Hull Decoration Forward and Aft

43(R) 234-5 Based on Van de Velde: Quarter Galleries Decoration and Section and Entering Port Details

44(R) 236-7 Based on Van de Velde: Quarter Galleries Isometric and Miscellaneous Decoration Details

45(R) 238-9 Forecastle Bulkhead Decoration

46(R) 240-1 Upper Deck and Quarter Deck Bulkheads

47(R ) 242-3 Four Gods and Miscellaneous Decoration Details

MASTS AND YARDS -

48 244-5 Bowsprit Details and Masts Isometric

49 246-7 Fore Mast Details

50 248-9 Main Mast Details

51 250-1 Mizzen Mast Details and Main Mast Sketches

SAILS, FLAGS AND BANNERS -

52 252-3 Sails, Flags and Banners

53 254-5 Sail Plan and Brail Details

54 256-7 Sails Isometric and Rigging Details

RIGGING -

55 258-9 Standing Rigging Profile and Isometric

56 260-1 Running Rigging Profile and Isometric

57 262-3 Bowsprit Rigging

58 264-5 Fore Mast Standing and Running Rigging, Sail Details

59 266-7 Fore Mast Standing and Running Rigging Details

60 268-9 Main Mast Standing Rigging

61 270-1 Main Mast Standing and Running Rigging

62 272-3 Main Mast Rigging Isometrics and Details

63 274-5 Mizzen Mast Rigging

64 276-7 Mizzen Mast Isometric and Details

65 278-9 Belaying Plan and Details

ORDNANCE -

66 280-1 Ordnance Details: Barrels and Carriages

67 282-3 Ordnance Details: Carriage and Sketches

BOATS -

68 284-5 Boat Details
 
I was tempted to purchase his rigging sheets - but at least 13 would be required to meet his $200 USD floor.
So will prob. just refer to the much smaller ones within his book.
I've already spent a small "fortune" on lumber, Amati metal set, many extra grids, blocks, ropes - and many other bits - so will now turn off the $$$ funnel
His book is, however, a welcome source of information especially the full (with sails) rigging details.
 
NMBROOK said:
I totally agree with you Kurt.

However there is one thing Mc Kay has offered modellers that some may agree/disagree with. However much one may dispute the books contents, this is the first Anatomy book to cover an English ship of the period. This would allow a modeller to build a model from scratch of this vessel to enter a Naviga competition with.Previously, this was impossible as you cannot enter this competition with a scratch built model based on conjecture with any hope of getting a decent score. Anyone familiar with the rules will know that you have to follow a source of historical reference, any deviation from that, you would need pretty much cast iron reference to deviate from your original source.This is why models of French vessels have such a big presence in this competition due to the detailed nature of the monographs available.

The controversial thing for some is that Naviga places emphasis on how accurate the model follows the drawings even if the drawings are deemed by many to be correct.In theory, a perfectly scratch built model that follows this book exactly could achieve full marks.

I realise competition is not for everyone and to me it can become a case of taking a hobby far too seriously that it becomes more like a day job, but it is nice that the builders that do, have a source of reference they can use to build a vessel that was once a "no go for the purists".For this reason alone, I applaud John McKay for taking the risk publishing this book on a subject so fraught with debate.

Kind Regards

Nigel
Click to expand...
I agree that a book like McKay's is a one stop shop for building a ship from a specific place and time, and that has great value, but it would be nice if his research sources were listened to and reflected in ALL aspects of the book so the reader wouldn't still have to sift through and figure out what to use and what to discard as inaccurate or flat out incorrect. There is much room for improvement. If I were John McKay, I'd re-issue the book with many corrections. The problem is that his drawings of the framing and other inaccurate things represent a huge amount of work to re-write. Personally, I would pay double or triple the cost of the book if it were updated and corrected. McKay's writing style is easy to understand and his work organized, and would make an excellent guide for a scratch builder or kit basher if only he took advantage of Frank Fox's advice and historical sources such as Payne's frame drawings. He sometimes ignores reliable or semi-reliable sources from the time period of interest in favor of more reliable but differing information from later dates. As a result, you get a ship which is a mixture of 17th and 18th centuries.
 
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Hi all; Wade from the UK here.

I purchased the John McKay book... like most agree amazing detailed hull drawings of the artwork. Mentioned this before that i can not find any reference to the ship's bell. I have seen a very ornate version with lion and unicorn posts on the main deck. From Airfix to DeAgonstini the bell is on the Fore deck and quite standard. The other issue is... with building the Airfix Sovereign, is the officers companionway... the bus stop looking block that defies seaworthy logic as it all but blocks the bulkhead access behind and I can find no backup on this oddly unique and unlisted design.

The stairways also pose problems, the Airfix kit literally has an awful ladder effect, without rails, but the mansionette causeway of the fore deck to main is baffling. I have 3D planned the gun-port and cannon under the causeway, of the giant staircase and there would be no room to store shot, powder or levers, let alone gun-crew either side for manning the cannon. Your thoughts would be much appreciated, please.

Also... sorry to ask more... is there any photo-etch 168 scale decorations i could use on the Sovereign (as the Airfix kit misses a lot on the Gallies and bow).

Again, thank you.
Wade
 
wade said:
Hi all; Wade from the UK here.

I purchased the John McKay book... like most agree amazing detailed hull drawings of the artwork. Mentioned this before that i can not find any reference to the ship's bell. I have seen a very ornate version with lion and unicorn posts on the main deck. From Airfix to DeAgonstini the bell is on the Fore deck and quite standard. The other issue is... with building the Airfix Sovereign, is the officers companionway... the bus stop looking block that defies seaworthy logic as it all but blocks the bulkhead access behind and I can find no backup on this oddly unique and unlisted design.

The stairways also pose problems, the Airfix kit literally has an awful ladder effect, without rails, but the mansionette causeway of the fore deck to main is baffling. I have 3D planned the gun-port and cannon under the causeway, of the giant staircase and there would be no room to store shot, powder or levers, let alone gun-crew either side for manning the cannon. Your thoughts would be much appreciated, please.

Also... sorry to ask more... is there any photo-etch 168 scale decorations i could use on the Sovereign (as the Airfix kit misses a lot on the Gallies and bow).

Again, thank you.
Wade
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Hi Wade,

Knowing what a typical type of belfry was used in the early 17th century, a few prominent modelers have chosen the design below as the most likely style of belfry for HMS Sovereign of the Seas. If you look HERE, you will see a discussion about this.

glo2-jpg.141969


50.jpg

The "officer's companionway" is a feature that comes from John McKay's interpretation only. It is a booby hatch found commonly on small vessels 300 years later and should not be on the Sovereign. It is also redundant, being situation adjacent to another ladder. You have to carefully pick what features you believe when looking at John McKay's model. For more details on McKay interpretation and what some maritime history experts thing about it, read THIS.

As for decorations, there exist NO HISTORICALLY ACCURATE DECORATIONS in ANY kit or available separately for HMS Sovereign of the Seas. What make the Sovereign one of the greatest challenges in ship modelling is you have to make the decorations yourself if you want them done right. When I get to the point where I have to 3-D model and 3-D resign print my own decorations in the upcoming years, that will change.
 
Thank you so much Darivus Architectvs!
The belfry will be a good challenge to start creating my own ornate decorations.
I hope to share my results with all you guys some day!

Again thank you
Wade
 
wgrigsby2001 said:
Hello I would like to get 1/48 scale plans to build this boat just like the book. How do I get these plans in blow version. I know u said it was 15 dollars per sheet. How many total sheets is there and total price to have all the plans. I already have this book. It looks like a very fun project. Thanks and my name is william
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Hallo @wgrigsby2001
we wish you all the BEST and a HAPPY BIRTHDAY
Birthday-Cake
 
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