Sovereign of the Seas - Sergal 1:78 (with hopefully many added details)

oldflyer said:
Other bits of info regarding the excellent Czech forum, and their criticism of Sergal’s out-of-the-box product. Posting only as an FYI for anyone interested.
I am way beyond angstIng over these (my) hundreds of mistakes. And I've spent a lot of time Google translating many of these notifications letter-by-letter haha...

Still Hats of to You Kurt for you’re choosing the DeAgostini arguably a better starting choice. The conundrum is, of course, how to recreate the many hundreds of gold metal bits (as you want to do Kurt). Though with the DeAgostini one could use gold foil over the decorative bits as opposed to just painting them with gold paint?



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The choice to start with the DeAgostini model was based on the hull shape, and at that time, I was actually looking to build an accurate model right out of the box without major changes. I thought the kit would be fairly accurate historically... THAT DIDN'T LAST LONG! ROTF The kit is very expensive. After learning that all those nice decorations were wrong, and after gathering better research information on the Sovereign, It was apparent that major changes and replacements of parts were necessary. Everything was going to be changed. The Mantua Sovereign has beautiful decorations, and more accurate than DeAgostini. I even bought a set of SotS decorations from Amati, hoping they would be better, but even though they're more detailed, the figures are not correct on the ship's sides, just like the other kits. So, they have to be made from scratch. :rolleyes: With my luck, someone with Chris Watton's devotion will build an accurate kit just as I finish my model years from now.
 
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Kurt,
So, DeAgostini also misses the mark - And Amati no longer produces this product. That leaves Sergal - that arguably "owns" this particular example for builders and they keep continually lowering the quality of the kit's contents. YIKES

(I had to order some extra wood parts for my kit ($50.00) - Sergal UK sent me the lazer cut wood panel - not even a match much cheaper wood - (I did not post this particular rant in this log) but so it goes.
Sergal UK did reach out saying that the particular wood panel that I needed had to be replaced with a cheaper type of wood. Tossed it into waste bin.

Regarding Chris Watton - it's been many years and builders are still waiting for what looks to be the "Rolls Royce" quality kit of the HMS Victory for its release from Amati in 1/64th.

If you are interested here is a link to this Amati project over at MSW from Chris Watton. That said Vanguard Models are far-and-away the best kits available on the market IMO

modelshipworld.com

Amati 1:64 HMS Victory - LATEST NEWS

Hi all, I was just wondering, is Caldrcraft (1:72 version) the go to kit for Victory freaks? Is it the most detailed/accurate on the market? Indeed, is it the largest? Anyone know of any others to rival Caldercraft's version or any planned by other manufacturers in the pipeline? Cheers Chris
modelshipworld.com modelshipworld.com
Regards,
 
Hi John,

Nice progress on the SotS, like the test you did on the chain wales.

Regarding the Victory kit that seems to be at a complete hold for the moment. A pity for such a nice kit.
 
Maarten said:
Regarding the Victory kit that seems to be at a complete hold for the moment. A pity for such a nice kit.
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Does the modeling world really need another Victory kit? Maybe they could come out with a kit of a ship that has not been done 10,000 times. :) IMHO there are so many Bounties and Victories and some others it would be great to see something new for a change. Kudos to Vanguard which seems to lead the pack for coming out with better than average quality ship model kits that others have not yet done.
Allan
 
AllanKP69 said:
Does the modeling world really need another Victory kit? Maybe they could come out with a kit of a ship that has not been done 10,000 times. :) IMHO there are so many Bounties and Victories and some others it would be great to see something new for a change. Kudos to Vanguard which seems to lead the pack for coming out with better than average quality ship model kits that others have not yet done.
Allan
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I agree, that we have already many Victory kits, from different manufacturers. Pity, but this is what makes manufacturers stay afloat in business. But you are correct, besides Vanguard Models, we have, Miniature Arts, Modelship Dockyard, CAF, Ships By Pavel Nikitin, and many others who think out of the box and design/produce better-than-average kits utilizing modern technology. We have the pleasure of showcasing them here on SOS, as the open box and the build logs.
 
AllanKP69 said:
Does the modeling world really need another Victory kit? Maybe they could come out with a kit of a ship that has not been done 10,000 times. :) IMHO there are so many Bounties and Victories and some others it would be great to see something new for a change. Kudos to Vanguard which seems to lead the pack for coming out with better than average quality ship model kits that others have not yet done.
Allan
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Jimsky said:
I agree, that we have already many Victory kits, from different manufacturers. Pity, but this is what makes manufacturers stay afloat in business. But you are correct, besides Vanguard Models, we have, Miniature Arts, Modelship Dockyard, CAF, Ships By Pavel Nikitin, and many others who think out of the box and design/produce better-than-average kits utilizing modern technology. We have the pleasure of showcasing them here on SOS, as the open box and the build logs.
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Yes fully agree with you both, but still we see Victory as the best sold kit. Seems the market is asking for it.
It still suprizes me that there is no new SotS kit launched yet, most probably to complex and expensive to devellop.

We have to keep in mind we are in a niche market and for most probably nearly every kit developper it will be difficult to earn a living from it.
 
Maarten said:
Yes fully agree with you both, but still we see Victory as the best sold kit. Seems the market is asking for it.
It still suprizes me that there is no new SotS kit launched yet, most probably to complex and expensive to devellop.

We have to keep in mind we are in a niche market and for most probably nearly every kit developper it will be difficult to earn a living from it.
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It's a lot easier to make a ship model kit when the ship still exists and you can walk on board her.
 
Jimsky said:
this is true, Kurt. Most European kit manufacturers don't want to invest in new development, also, they don't want to upgrade their processes and technologies.
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It seems it is left us builders to research and develope better models. This is a shame in that new builders will not get as much researched and historically accurate content in their kits. It would be nice if a kitmaker were to include instructions for superdetailing so that intermediate and advanced modelers could scratch build extra features in a kit. I think that would encourage beginners to learn new things.

As an alternative, perhaps one could author a book on how to superdetail a specific kit currently on the market. Such instructions are already found to some degree in build logs here for those who are bashing kits or building from scratch. This is why build logs are so important to the modeling community as a whole. Presently, new builders have to hunt and gather information on detailing models of specific ships. This forum is worth a fortune in that regard.

It all comes down to how much value a kit manufacturer can pack into a model kit without driving the price too high, beyond what modelers are willing to pay.
 
Hi,
It’s been a while since I’ve checked-in as well as posting any updates. Been busy with other bits of my life. But, very lately, having found some disposable time I have done further work on this so far “lifelong” build.

Some thoughts ;)

I know hinges should be black along with other bits as well. I chose leaving the hinges brass for their looks – given this ship’s hundreds of other bronze parts, and that this project bears very little relationship to /with any historical accuracy. as I’ve noted before……so unpainted nor blackened were the results.

But, I am regretful that the gun ports (doors) appear a bit too thick (poor planning). I had overlaid thin strips above some other matching wood strips that I had available, and cut all 50+ to size.

No other (to me available) wood matched the very light outer hull kit provided parts that run the lengths of the lower, and upper-gun decks. And I don’t have a wood strip sanding drum. So be it….

Thanks for your continued interest.
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Regards,
 
Excellent crisp work as always John, magnificent model in the making.

Looking at the sharp decorations, if Sergal offered the kit now as it was offered in the 80's, I would buy it tomorrow and build almost out of the box. Such a shame this once great kit has been allowed to be diluted so much in quality. Yes I know it is falls short regarding historical accuracy but books by Septon and Busmann came out long after Sergal brought this kit to market. It does however quite closely reflect the one contemporary model and historical plans that Arthur Molle used in constructing his fine model.
 
NMBROOK said:
Excellent crisp work as always John, magnificent model in the making.

Looking at the sharp decorations, if Sergal offered the kit now as it was offered in the 80's, I would buy it tomorrow and build almost out of the box. Such a shame this once great kit has been allowed to be diluted so much in quality. Yes I know it is falls short regarding historical accuracy but books by Septon and Busmann came out long after Sergal brought this kit to market. It does however quite closely reflect the one contemporary model and historical plans that Arthur Molle used in constructing his fine model.
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How do the kits from the 1980s and today compare?

Bill
 
oldflyer said:
Hi,
It’s been a while since I’ve checked-in as well as posting any updates. Been busy with other bits of my life. But, very lately, having found some disposable time I have done further work on this so far “lifelong” build.

Some thoughts ;)

I know hinges should be black along with other bits as well. I chose leaving the hinges brass for their looks – given this ship’s hundreds of other bronze parts, and that this project bears very little relationship to /with any historical accuracy. as I’ve noted before……so unpainted nor blackened were the results.

But, I am regretful that the gun ports (doors) appear a bit too thick (poor planning). I had overlaid thin strips above some other matching wood strips that I had available, and cut all 50+ to size.

No other (to me available) wood matched the very light outer hull kit provided parts that run the lengths of the lower, and upper-gun decks. And I don’t have a wood strip sanding drum. So be it….

Thanks for your continued interest.
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Regards,
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Good morning John. SO good to see you playing on your ship again. I like the brass look of the hinges, definitely fits the look and feel of the rest of the ship. Quality build as always. Cheers Grant
 
WilliamM said:
How do the kits from the 1980s and today compare?

Bill
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Massive difference Bill

Predominantly the sharpness of the castings. Mantuas moulds for the wax masters must be well worn as now the castings are devoid of fine detail.This is made worse by the fact that the castings are now plated white metal when they we once brass. An issue if you are not painting them, any fettling removes the plating and exposes the white metal

The next change depends on the builder but to me, extensive laser engraved decks replacing the once individually planked decks is not a visual improvement.

These changes no doubt are to cut costs under the guise of making the kit easier to build.
 
NMBROOK said:
Massive difference Bill

Predominantly the sharpness of the castings. Mantuas moulds for the wax masters must be well worn as now the castings are devoid of fine detail.This is made worse by the fact that the castings are now plated white metal when they we once brass. An issue if you are not painting them, any fettling removes the plating and exposes the white metal

The next change depends on the builder but to me, extensive laser engraved decks replacing the once individually planked decks is not a visual improvement.

These changes no doubt are to cut costs under the guise of making the kit easier to build.
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Further to Nigel's point - I've vented about the current kit's shortcomings. Here are comparison images of the vintage kit's bronze (600+) decorative bits

Will add a further issue - ASAP - as well as responding to the very kind member comments.

PS: AND MSRP did not go down. For a kit that retails around $900.00 USD - yikes!!!


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NMBROOK said:
Massive difference Bill

Predominantly the sharpness of the castings. Mantuas moulds for the wax masters must be well worn as now the castings are devoid of fine detail.This is made worse by the fact that the castings are now plated white metal when they we once brass. An issue if you are not painting them, any fettling removes the plating and exposes the white metal

The next change depends on the builder but to me, extensive laser engraved decks replacing the once individually planked decks is not a visual improvement.

These changes no doubt are to cut costs under the guise of making the kit easier to build.
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Thanks for responding so quickly! Given that there are so many kits of the Sovereign, is there a kit you would recommend?

Bill
 
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