The Great Republic 1:48

I remember a lot of nursery and other places that grew stuff along the northern end of Collier Blvd and maybe that's where the grove was that you visited. There were several "U-pick" places there too where you could go pick your own vegetables after the co-op's took the cream of the crop. I guess I just missed the orange grove somehow but all that i gone now. Taken over by huge gated communities and other projects and they still don't have any where near the number of homes that they need. You can't even drive out into the Everglades any more. All the trails we used are built up now and you'd have to drive through somebodies back yard to get out there. The uncontrolled burst o growth here is ridiculous and I for one am thinking about moving to a less populated place.
 
José Ruesta said:
What an interesting project, I will follow it closely. Greetings.
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Hi Jose' and thanks for looking at my thread. It has been very interesting so far because I've ended up doing things like the "knees" in the hold that we would have never done on a normal sized model. Building big seems to open a lot of new doors to explore so yes, it is very interesting. I'm learning more than I ever thought I would. Pete
 
At first I thought that putting some freight into the cargo holds would be a neat idea but now I'm having second thoughts. First, there just aren't too many places that make 1/48 cargo like cotton bales etc. for my ship. I did buy a few crates and bags for the hold but it's going to take many, many times that to give each hold a proper cargo. Unless I can figure how to make my own stuff, it will cost way to much to buy what I need to fill this model up with cargo. It'll be too heavy too. The model already weighs a ton. You can see in the picture below that the freight on board doesn't even begin to fill up the space in this ship.
So I began to set the pieces in place for the second deck that wouldn't interfere with the addition of more freight. The waterways are in place and a strip of decking on each side is installed too. The masts are next and they need to be in place now so as to build in the rake of the masts without taking out too much bracing for them. Also the hatch ways need to be built one over the other on each deck to give a peek into the hold. Stairways and ladders go there too and need to be built. The frame extension in picture #69 is hard to see but that shows where the spar deck level will be after the three decks are finished below. The spar deck will be at that top level plus it's railings around the sides.
I went to Home Depot for the dowels to make the masts and there was every size of dowel available except the three quarter inch size that I had decided to use. There were some 7/8" dowels so I went for one to see how it looks. It looks fine since there are no 3/4" dowels in stock. I see now that I will need to build a lower bench to work on since the masts will be well above my ceiling from the tables I'm using now. I think this model is developing a life of it's own and taking over my whole shop never mind all my time. I also drilled holes through the frames and into the ends of each deck beam and glued a 1/16th dowel into the hole. Each dowel is about two inches long and provides a mechanical link between the deck beam and the adjoining frame for extra strength in case the glue ever parts.
At this time I'm hoping to get as much done by the end of the first year on this project as I can because the rigging and the spars and masts will take another year I'm sure. Looking at the sizes of the ropes on this thing I see I'll be making a lot of rope myself. The large sizes just aren't available from the thread company's so it's the only way without breaking the budget. There should be a picture of the mast in place but I don't see it. Perhaps I forgot to take that one so I'll take one and post it. Sorry there isn't more to show you but that's the way of model building. There is always something that you hadn't thought of to slow you down. Pete

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Here is the fore mast cut to scale and stepped but not glued. The foremast size is the same as the mainmast at 44" circumference so 7/8 is pretty close. There are two more sections to go atop this section but they overlap a lot and won't be THAT much taller. Still the roof is too low and may have to be raised. Ha!
There's nothing better than a good picture to show you what looks ok and what doesn't. I see some wiggly planks in there that I didn't see before. Have to straighten that out soon. The other pics show the mizzen mast step and the spanker mast step.

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Alan Smith said:
A thought on cargo. Probably mad!

These very cotton bags might be adaptable to make bagged cargo - polystyrene beads perhaps? They are too big as supplied but I'm sure they could be cut down.

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Thanks for that Alan. I hadn't thought of anything like that but cargo back in those days could well have been packaged in cotton or burlap bags. I'll kick that around a bit and see how it can be used. Appreciate the tip. Norgale
 
Norgale,
Here are some images that haven't been shared yet.
1853 Gleasons Pictorial Drawing Room Companion "Leviathan Clipper Great Republic, Fully Rigged" this was published before her destruction by fire, so it's likely the most accurate depiction of her original appearance. The first is from MIT Museum. Others are from on-line ads to share details.
Half hull model is a working builder's model from the Boston Museum of Fine Arts.
Next are 4 scenes of the eagle figurehead, currently on display at Mystic Seaport, CT.
Next 2 are from Richard McKay's collection. Launch of Great Republic and internal sections of her construction, including her eagle figurehead at the bow.
Finally there's a beautiful painting of her by JE Buttersworth from the Old State House, Boston, Mass.

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Norgale,
This is the lithograph produced by Nathaniel Currier from the JE Buttersworth painting. It's reversed due to the lithographic process. Since you're working on such a large scale, I felt you might appreciate seeing these additional details. The vast majority of the crafts upper deck is protected by rails on stanchions. At the fore, it switches to metal rails. Look closely at the bow and you'll see a splash rail which is almost the same height of those balustrade rails that meets them. I never noticed that feature before. The Eagle figurehead's pose matches the bowsprit steeve and the neck is longer than the sawn off remnant on display at Mystic, CT. Another feature I've never noticed before are double rows of alternating multiple portholes on decks 2 and 3. On deck 2, beginning in front of the mainmast chains, there's 1, aft of those chains there's 6 more with the last being just inside the mizzen chains. There are 3 more between the mizzen and jigger mast and 2 aft of the jigger mast chains for a total of 12. Deck 3 below that has 11: 6 between main and mizzen, 3 between mizzen and jigger and 2 aft of the jigger. Note how the alternate spaces in a zig-zag pattern with none being directly above another. Since this crucial illustration was "Entered according to Act of Congress in the Year 1853 by L. McKay (most likely Donald's brother Captain Lauchlan McKay) in the Clerk's Office of the District Office of the Southern District of N.Y." it's fair to consider this piece along with the JE Buttersworth art it's derived from to be a definitive work confirming the appearance of Great Republic as she was originally launched and rigged. That means she had skysails on her fore and main with royals on her mizzen. I've attached a link to the original Captn. Arthur H Clark Collection source in the MIT Museum, Cambridge, Mass. The details are much easier to see when enlarged at the original source.

mitmuseum.mit.edu

To Donald McKay Esq. builder of the Leviathan. Clipper Ship "Great Republic." | MIT Museum

A tinted lithograph of the port-side view of the clipper ship 'Great Republic.' The print is dedicated to Donald McKay, the shipbuilder. She sails with all of her sails full and set. Other clipper ships are on the horizon. The 'Great Republic' was noteworthy as she was the largest wooden clipper...
mitmuseum.mit.edu

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This is where history and observation goes, awry. I researched this vessel for 5 years and concluded from first hand knowledge accounts that she carried generally only royals. Many artist and most modelers mix and match details from the GR when she first was built and after her refit. She didn't need to employ sky sails because of the enormity of her existing sails Her main yard was 120ft. Largest ever on a clipper. My research revealed that after getting cut down she was re-rigged with Howes double topsails.....and her masts were reduced nearly 20ft. This painting depicts here with a splash rail.....but her original design she had a flush weather deck with no splash rail. Her enormous size and height with her fourth deck precluded the addition of sucha rail. This image does not show her stern helm cabin....or any real cabin....cept their tops, as if sunken below a bulwark.
IMHV...this image represents the original Great Republic far better
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And in my expert opinion...this B/W lithograph is the absolute best representation of Great Republic. Everything original is represented

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@rwiederrich
from what I've read, it took NB Palmer and his investors a full year to refurbish Great Republic as a 3 decked razee after Donald McKay abandoned her scuttled burnt out hulk to the underwriters. The 3 images which I shared: Gleasons Pictorial Drawing Room Companion, Currier lithograph and JE Buttersworth oil are all dated 1853. She was launched October 4th and sunk December 27th, 1853. The Currier lithograph, submitted by L. McKay (presumably Lauchlan, Donald's brother) is documented as being illustrated in 1853. It's an exact copy of the Buttersworth piece, which would also have been done in 1853. The Gleason's illustration refers to her as being fully rigged and shows a skysail yard on her mainmast only. Both the Buttersworth and Currier litho show skysails on a 3 forward masts. Whatever rigging confusion we're dealing with, still has to deal with as she originally appeared. Her razeed career would have been sometime in 1854.
 
ClipperFan said:
@rwiederrich
from what I've read, it took NB Palmer and his investors a full year to refurbish Great Republic as a 3 decked razee after Donald McKay abandoned her scuttled burnt out hulk to the underwriters. The 3 images which I shared: Gleasons Pictorial Drawing Room Companion, Currier lithograph and JE Buttersworth oil are all dated 1853. She was launched October 4th and sunk December 27th, 1853. The Currier lithograph, submitted by L. McKay (presumably Lauchlan, Donald's brother) is documented as being illustrated in 1853. It's an exact copy of the Buttersworth piece, which would also have been done in 1853. The Gleason's illustration refers to her as being fully rigged and shows a skysail yard on her mainmast only. Both the Buttersworth and Currier litho show skysails on a 3 forward masts. Whatever rigging confusion we're dealing with, still has to deal with Great Republic as she originally appeared. Her razeed career would have been sometime in 1854.
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ClipperFan said:
@rwiederrich
from what I've read, it took NB Palmer and his investors a full year to refurbish Great Republic as a 3 decked razee after Donald McKay abandoned her scuttled burnt out hulk to the underwriters. The 3 images which I shared: Gleasons Pictorial Drawing Room Companion, Currier lithograph and JE Buttersworth oil are all dated 1853. She was launched October 4th and sunk December 27th, 1853. The Currier lithograph, submitted by L. McKay (presumably Lauchlan, Donald's brother) is documented as being illustrated in 1853. It's an exact copy of the Buttersworth piece, which would also have been done in 1853. The Gleason's illustration refers to her as being fully rigged and shows a skysail yard on her mainmast only. Both the Buttersworth and Currier litho show skysails on a 3 forward masts. Since Lauchlan McKay was supposed to command her and he apparently had a hand in the designs of Flying Cloud as well as Sovereign of the Seas it's possible he planned to add skysails to fore and mizzen as well. That would explain why the Buttersworth oil and Currier print show all skysails. Unfortunately, she burned before she could set sail. Whatever rigging confusion we're dealing with, still has to deal with Great Republic as she originally appeared. As for her splashrail and multiple porthole rows, they're in the Currier print that her captain submitted. All of these details are dated 1853 and had nothing to do with events which transpired after her refit. Her razeed career would have been sometime in 1854 a year later.
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ClipperFan said:
@rwiederrich
from what I've read, it took NB Palmer and his investors a full year to refurbish Great Republic as a 3 decked razee after Donald McKay abandoned her scuttled burnt out hulk to the underwriters. The 3 images which I shared: Gleasons Pictorial Drawing Room Companion, Currier lithograph and JE Buttersworth oil are all dated 1853. She was launched October 4th and sunk December 27th, 1853. The Currier lithograph, submitted by L. McKay (presumably Lauchlan, Donald's brother) is documented as being illustrated in 1853. It's an exact copy of the Buttersworth piece, which would also have been done in 1853. The Gleason's illustration refers to her as being fully rigged and shows a skysail yard on her mainmast only. Both the Buttersworth and Currier litho show skysails on a 3 forward masts. Whatever rigging confusion we're dealing with, still has to deal with as she originally appeared. Her razeed career would have been sometime in 1854.
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The skysail issue has always been a contentious problem. Since some depictions refer to her only having royals as the top sails. She had a double topsail, Forbes rigged.....NOT Howes rigged. Howes rig was for fixed lower topsail...The GR was rebuilt with Howes double topsails. So much of her history has been mixed up...Some images show her with Howes double topsails and A weather deck railing...wrong. Others show her with her topmast doubling with the topsail mast abaft the main mast. However Written documentation from Forbes himself, states, GR was rigged with his topsal design, but with the doubling with the topmast forward....in the normal position.
I concluded, that because of her enormous sail plan...she possibly had a main skysail...but not on the fore and mizzen. I made a call...based upon reported first hand knowledge , some paintings and an educated guess. Too many other mixed up error existed as well.

This frame rendering, taken from the builders drawings...clearly shows the GR did not have a splash rail...as evidenced by the flush rail on the forecastle.
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rwiederrich said:
The skysail issue has always been a contentious problem. Since some depictions refer to her only having royals as the top sails. She had a double topsail, Forbes rigged.....NOT Howes rigged. Howes rig was for fixed lower topsail...The GR was rebuilt with Howes double topsails. So much of her history has been mixed up...Some images show her with Howes double topsails and A weather deck railing...wrong. Others show her with her topmast doubling with the topsail mast abaft the main mast. However Written documentation from Forbes himself, states, GR was rigged with his topsal design, but with the doubling with the topmast forward....in the normal position.
I concluded, that because of her enormous sail plan...she possibly had a main skysail...but not on the fore and mizzen. I made a call...based upon reported first hand knowledge , some paintings and an educated guess. Too many other mixed up error existed as well.

This frame rendering, taken from the builders drawings...clearly shows the GR did not have a splash rail...as evidenced by the flush rail on the forecastle.
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Rob,
what impressed me was the apparent advertising coordination for introduction of Donald McKay's Great Republic his largest ever gargantuan 4 decked clipper ship. "Leviathan" was used in Gleason's as well as the Currier print. Besides the extra fore skysail, the controversial splash rail and inclusion of two rows of portholes are features I've never seen before. That plus the fact that Captain Lauchlan McKay who would have been her first commander was the person who submitted the Currier print to the NY Clerk convinced me about the authenticity of these works.
 
ClipperFan said:
was the person who submitted the Currier print to the NY Clerk convinced me about the authenticity of these works.
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Where exactly do you see that Lauchlan was the one who submitted that image to NY Clerk? I'd like to read that myself...

And if he did, that still is not proof...he agreed with the representation...if that is all he had to present for advertising purposes.

Rob
 
rwiederrich said:
Where exactly do you see that Lauchlan was the one who submitted that image to NY Clerk? I'd like to read that myself...

And if he did, that still is not proof...he agreed with the representation...if that is all he had to present for advertising purposes.

Rob
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Rob,
In the smallest print, just below the ship's depiction is the line referring to L. McKay being the one who submitted the print. Here's the line which I've enlarged in order to read it better.
By the way, it wasn't my intention to create controversy, just to share what I see as accurate depiction of Great Republic as she was originally intended. Essentially, we're only discussing a single skysail on her foremast. To me, there's no confusion about her rebuild being involves as all 3 images I've been sharing are dated 1853. Since Lauchlan McKay was set to be her Captain, it's possible he planned on adding that foremast skysail. It's also likely, although I've found nothing to substantiate this, that Lauchlan or Donald commissioned the Buttersworth piece, from which clearly the Currier print was derived. In reality, she was only rigged with the lone skysail on her mainmast, as shown in the Gleason's illustration. What I found interesting too were the multiple rows of portholes in her two lower decks spanning her midships to her aft end. As for the splash rail, I just thought it was an interesting feature, nothing more.

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