USRC Harriet Lane Model Shipways 1:96 scale circa 1863

dockattner said:
What the heck. I got on a plane in Jacksonville FL and got off a plane in Chicago IL and somehow a full month of progress got posted!
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Paul! That will teach you to get on airplanes! ;)

I hope you had a great trip!

Yeah . . . I found myself getting really stressed out trying to post my progress in real time. I had a lot of work to do (finish work to restore the lower level of Shangri-la for Christmas guests) and it was either do some work on Harriet Lane and post or get Shangri-la ready and do a little work on Harriet Lane. My admiral insisted on the latter. I found that when I got to the natural break point between the last and the next major step was the perfect time to update my log. I think that will be my m.o. gong forward except for seeking advice, looking at you, Paul, among others, looking at you Pete.
 
Peter Gutterman said:
Freaking gorgeous! Now I've got a lot to chew on for "Flying Cloud's" bottom.
In fact, like re-thinking my whole approach! :eek:
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Pete! Much too kind. As per your usual. I really appreciate the encouragement!

I know that you are/were concerned about the coppering being too shiny, too distracting. As a fellow believer that the eye and the art guide our hands in this hobby, I decided that I really like how shiny the copper came out and the contrast with the black. When I was researching, I found a thread on coppering on our forum where people were debating this question. Some believed that the copper should not appear like new because even in storage at the shipyard it developed a patina. Moreover, as we all know, once on a working ship the copper developed a variety of colors including a beard of weed. One builder achieved some amazingly realistic results using "biological fluids." We're not talking about spit either. I preferred to show my Harriet Lane as a more Platonic ideal of the ship over the option of having her appear as she would have in real life. Back to the thought: Build your model the way you want her to look!

BTW, if as I imagine they are, the water closets are actual W/Cs one would have to add some unsightly detail :oops:
 
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BMT said:
WOW!
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BMT! Thank you for the "WOW!" I hope everything's going well for you and yours and that your Harriet Lane is continuing to progress! I looked in on your log for updates. I hope you treat us with some real soon!

Blessings!
Chuck
 
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GrantTyler said:
Good afternoon Chuck. I have just caught up on this build. Wow it is coming out really cool. I most certainly will stay in touch here. Cheers Grant
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Hello, Grant!

Thank you! I'm enjoying it! Hey, thanks also for showing how courage, creativity, vision, and patience can come together with splendid results! I think about your Xebec build often when I'm plodding along!

Cheers!
Chuck
 
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Peter Gutterman said:
I love the base, by the way, with what looks like Olive-Ash burl veneer. Nicely done! Thumbs-Up
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Thanks for the compliment on the base, Pete! It is a burl veneer over pine. I "discovered" the technique and used it for the base of my first Fair American in the early 2000's - Titebond II on the wood and the veneer. Allow to dry. Then weld them together by ironing (I always have an old iron around somewhere) the unglued face of the veneer. Route the edge and voila!

That worked fine before I got my dogs - golden retrievers who shed a ton - and before I noticed just how much dust and dander can accumulate. Now I use that base as my working base. I put my ships under "glass" as soon as possible now. The first picture is my Enterprise. It took me two hours to clean her before I put her in her case and she's still not what she was when I finished her. The Lovely Renee went in her case as soon as I finished her.

USS Enterprise in her case.jpgThe Lovely Renee in her case.jpg
 
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The Gavel said:
Pete! Much too kind. As per your usual. I really appreciate the encouragement!

I know that you are/were concerned about the coppering being too shiny, too distracting. As a fellow believer that the eye and the art guide our hands in this hobby, I decided that I really like how shiny the copper came out and the contrast with the black. When I was researching, I found a thread on coppering on our forum where people were debating this question. Some believed that the copper should not appear like new because even in storage at the shipyard it developed a patina. Moreover, as we all know, once on a working ship the copper developed a variety of colors including a beard of weed. One builder achieved some amazingly realistic results using "biological fluids." We're not talking about spit either. I preferred to show my Harriet Lane as a more Platonic ideal of the ship over the option of having her appear as she would have in real life. Back to the thought: Build your model the way you want her to look!

BTW, if as I imagine they are, the water closets are actual W/Cs one would have to add some unsightly detail :oops:
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I very much like the look you achieved and agree with your assessment of the final aesthetic. She looks wonderful and I wouldn't second guess it . Your result couldn't look better.
I'm just re-assessing what I'm trying to achieve and how. looks like I'm actually going to have to experiment (which every one of my models is) but actually make some test samples first. Maybe I'll send you some pics if I come up with some possible choices and get your opinion.

Glad to have you as a friend!

Pete
 
Peter Gutterman said:
Did you build the console the ship is resting on?
I'm Guessing that is the, indeed, "lovely" Renee in the portrait?
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Good morning, Pete! That is the Lovely Renee in the picture. I did not make the console. I have made other furniture mainly book shelves and tables in the past. My main other hobby is painting. I don't know if you sometimes want some more instant gratification, but from time to time I become impatient with my progress on a ship. For example, with my Lovely Renee nee Fair American, I ran into a technical problem that took a long time to figure out and I needed to do something creative, so I turned to painting for a couple of months. Same thing happened this summer when the shipyard got flooded and the lower level of Shangri-la was a mess.

The first one is a portrait of my brother-in-law the day before he married Renee's twin sister. The picture is on the wall behind Lovely Renee. The second is me and my admiral ;)

Alex.jpgChuck and Renee.jpg
 
Peter Gutterman said:
I very much like the look you achieved and agree with your assessment of the final aesthetic. She looks wonderful and I wouldn't second guess it . Your result couldn't look better.
I'm just re-assessing what I'm trying to achieve and how. looks like I'm actually going to have to experiment (which every one of my models is) but actually make some test samples first. Maybe I'll send you some pics if I come up with some possible choices and get your opinion.

Glad to have you as a friend!

Pete
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Thank you, Pete!

Amen on the experimentation. And there you were saying that it was OCD instead of wisdom. One of the neat things about having the relationships this forum provides is the inspiration to experiment. So, thank you, my friend, for the inspiration!

I'll be on the lookout for your pictures:D

Blessings. Peace. Gratitude.
Chuck
 
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Good evening (northern hemisphere south central and north American) shipmates! All other shipmates good night, good morning, good day!

As I contemplate next steps I solicit your input. The instructions call for the permanent attachment of the sponson and paddle wheels to the hull. I still need to mount the support struts between the sponson bottom and the hull. After that, there is a logical sequence of building/making/attaching the bits and bobs from forward aft. Fair enough. With the modifications I am making to show the Harriet Lane as she might have looked in late 1862, I have concerns as yet unresolved.

First - anchor stowage. I am still wondering about a double cat head. I am also wondering about securing the anchors to the ship. Pete Gutterman's lovely solution was to use the open ports below the foredeck addition. If you look at his Harriet Lane you'll see what I'm talking about. I also posted a picture from his log at post #9 in this log. I think I've tried hard to find pictures from the era showing any kind of anchor stowage on this type of sidewheel warship. I have all of Donald Canney's books on the old steam navy. In short - HELP!!!!

Second - moving from forward I will need to mount the Parrot rifle on the fore deck and the heavy Dahlgren cannon on the main deck immediately before the fore mast. I have seen many pictures including these guns, but I'd love to see a diagram of carriage construction and rigging. Again, HELP!!!! Although I sourced carriages from the lovely people at Blue Jacket Shipcrafters, I decided to make my own particularly as the smaller cast Britannia carriage is just too big for the space on the foredeck. HELP!!!

Third - my version of the Harriet Lane had 24lbr naval howitzers as the aftmost pair of guns. I tried to research for images of this kind of gun. I didn't find any. I did find dimensions. Where are the dimension, Chuck? - you may ask. Don't know, is my answer. I'll do the research again. I do know that they were shorter and less stout than the IX in Dahlgren.

Fourth - I know that the 24lbr and the IX in Dahlgrens were in Marsilly carriages. I have a diagram here. I don't understand, however, how this carriage worked. The there is a small wheel or roller on the left beneath the elevation screw. Recoil anyone!?!?!?! On the right side the object below the gum port looks like a point of attachment to the carriage. Is that what it is? Once again, HELP!!!!
1707178021094.png1707178021094.png
 
Aha! I think I Just figured something out about the Marsilly carriage diagram. I was too focused on the upper image. What looked like an object dead center below the gun port is likely the attachment for breaching ropes and train tackle shown in the lower picture. Still - firing that gun must have left a heck of a groove in the deck if the idea is that the missing rear trucks were unnecessary and could be replace by - nothing - just the wood of the carriage on the deck. I can imagine that the additional resistance caused by the missing rear trucks may have acted as a recoil dampener. Thoughts?
 
I got a copy of the plans for Mississippi's pivot guns from the National Archives a while back. They date to 1855, and since I knew Constellation had 10" shell guns and was built in the same time frame as Mississippi, I went with these plans. Later, Constellation got a 20 pound and a 30 pound Parrot Rifle as pivots. I 3D modeled the Mississippi gun to print it in 1:36 scale.
(click pic for larger view)
mississippi_shell_gun.jpg new_gun20220315.png
pivot_gun.png con20220615c.jpg

"Arming the Fleet" has a drawing of a "Traversing Pivot Gun-Carriage Slide" that's a little earlier and for an earlier shell-gun type (Paixhans/Columbiad). The slide is very similar to the Mississippi's, but the carriage is closer to the style used in the Civil War with Dalgren's
traversing_carriage_and_slide.jpg

A manual on Naval Gunnery had the following diagrams which show the arrangement of the tracks on deck with the above carriage/slides which have no forward trucks like the later ones did..
bow_pivot_stations.jpg pivot_stern_stations.jpg

I'm not familiar with Harriet Lane's armament, and didn't have a chance to look into it, but maybe this info will be of some use to you. If you need to use the Mississippi's plan, let me know and I'll resize it to your scale for you.
 
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JerryTodd said:
I got a copy of the plans for Mississippi's pivot guns from the National Archives a while back. They date to 1855, and since I knew Constellation had 10" shell guns and was built in the same time frame as Mississippi, i went with these plans. Later, Constellation got a 20 pound and a 30 pound Parrot Rifle as pivots, but they apparently had iron carriages. I 3D modeled the Mississippi gun to print it in 1:36 scale.
(click pic for larger view)
View attachment 426003 View attachment 426004
View attachment 426005 View attachment 426008

"Arming the Fleet" has a drawing of a "Traversing Pivot Gun-Carriage Slide" that's a little earlier and for an earlier shell-gun type (Paixhans/Columbiad). The slide is very similar to the Mississippi's, but the carriage is closer to the style used in the Civil War with Dalgren's
View attachment 426007

A manual on Naval Gunnery had the following diagrams which show the arrangement of the tracks on deck with the above carriage/slides which have no forward trucks like the later ones did..
View attachment 426002 View attachment 426006

I'm not familiar with Harriet Lane's armament, and didn't have a chance to look into it, but maybe this info will be of some use to you. If you need to use the Mississippi's plan, let me know and I'll resize it to your scale for you.
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Dear Jerry,

Thank you! This is extremely helpful information. I'm working in 1:96 scale, so 1/8" = 1'. Where did you find the manual on naval gunnery?!! I now can see how to rig the train tackle! You printed the gun on the ship!?!? I'm trying to show amazement and awe here! We don't have an emoji for that yet.

Here's the information on Harriet Lane's armament circa late 1862 up to January 1, 1963 when she was captured at Galveston. I'd love a scale copy of the Mississippi slide and carriage. Please and thank you!
HL Guns.jpg
 
MisterCA said:
Peter…good point about being too busy. The attached photo is the lower quarter stern of my 1:64 US Brig Syren coppering.

View attachment 426010
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I have the same kit of the Syren, I believe. I haven't built it, but I knew about the coppering and used the instructions to get a basic how-to on copper plating model ship hulls. I noticed the invitation to build a jig to simulate the nail pattern. Pretty cool!
 
JerryTodd said:
I got a copy of the plans for Mississippi's pivot guns from the National Archives a while back. They date to 1855, and since I knew Constellation had 10" shell guns and was built in the same time frame as Mississippi, i went with these plans. Later, Constellation got a 20 pound and a 30 pound Parrot Rifle as pivots, but they apparently had iron carriages. I 3D modeled the Mississippi gun to print it in 1:36 scale.
(click pic for larger view)
View attachment 426003 View attachment 426004
View attachment 426005 View attachment 426008

"Arming the Fleet" has a drawing of a "Traversing Pivot Gun-Carriage Slide" that's a little earlier and for an earlier shell-gun type (Paixhans/Columbiad). The slide is very similar to the Mississippi's, but the carriage is closer to the style used in the Civil War with Dalgren's
View attachment 426007

A manual on Naval Gunnery had the following diagrams which show the arrangement of the tracks on deck with the above carriage/slides which have no forward trucks like the later ones did..
View attachment 426002 View attachment 426006

I'm not familiar with Harriet Lane's armament, and didn't have a chance to look into it, but maybe this info will be of some use to you. If you need to use the Mississippi's plan, let me know and I'll resize it to your scale for you.
Click to expand...
Dude! I hope you don't mind me addressing you that way. I just went through your Constellation log. LEGIT!!!!
 
The Gavel said:
I have the same kit of the Syren, I believe. I haven't built it, but I knew about the coppering and used the instructions to get a basic how-to on copper plating model ship hulls. I noticed the invitation to build a jig to simulate the nail pattern. Pretty cool!
Click to expand...
I built the jig and the rivet stamp. Very tedious process. You'll enjoy the Syren.Your skills are definitely developed.
 
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