Van de Velde exhibition Scheepvaartmuseum Amsterdam

[Maarten]

Here you have a Lely painting of another Dutch admiral, Cornelis Tromp. And again the ship was painted by Van de Velde.




Now the real big master pieces, these are huge.




My personal favorite de Gouden Leeuw op het IJ te Amsterdam.




On the right you see the building where now a days the maritime museum is located. The old navy warehouse.


On this painting you see it even better.



And what it looks now.


Hope you enjoyed it.

 

[Uwek]

Many thanks for these details and highly interesting excurse to see the masterpieces
Maybe you know, if this exhibition is fixed in your city, or is it traveling also to other cities?

And another question
What is this?

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Could that be the casting lead to determine the water depth?

 

[Maarten]

Many thanks for these details and highly interesting excurse to see the masterpieces
Maybe you know, if this exhibition is fixed in your city, or is it traveling also to other cities?

And another question
What is this?
View attachment 296103

End of this month it is going to Londen nmmg.

I asked the same question in my forst post.
On this one you see it twice.
Maybe a floor mop? Seems to have a wooden stalk. The top one also has a little box next to it.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

17th century version of truck balls?

 

[NMBROOK]

Thankyou so much for taking the time to post the pictures Maarten,I love looking at these as much as the Navy board models of the time.

I have one observation.I know many of us including me have spent hours analysing the works of Van de Velds looking for details relevant to a certain vessel,I find it worrying that the harbour building has gained another floor in the painting.I know see levels are rising etc but by that much???

Kind Regards

Nigel

 

[Maarten]

Thankyou so much for taking the time to post the pictures Maarten,I love looking at these as much as the Navy board models of the time.

I have one observation.I know many of us including me have spent hours analysing the works of Van de Velds looking for details relevant to a certain vessel,I find it worrying that the harbour building has gained another floor in the painting.I know see levels are rising etc but by that much???

Kind Regards

Nigel

Don't worry, that painting is not a Van de Velde.
Also keep in mind the maritime painters were specialist in painting ships sea and clouds, not landscapes and buildings. Actually if you count the windows it seems to be correct, it looks only bigger, higher. Artistic license?

 

[Cirdan]

Actually if you count the windows it seems to be correct, it looks only bigger, higher. Artistic license?

Exactly. A painting like this should look impressive and the painters did their job in this respect. Painters also often exaggerated the size of ships, as in the case of Scott's painting of the Danish barque (see below). I think this ship originally had the size of Cook's Endeavour, but in the painting she gained nearly the size of the HMS Victory. Or they have scaled down some of the figures, such as those in the galleries of the Royal George (see below), so that there is still a lot of space over their heads, which in reality probably wasn't the case. Note also the difference in size between the figures in the galleries and the figures in the boat on the side of the ship. It just wouldn't have looked good to paint the figures in their original sizes in the galleries. A warship in this representative context should look as impressive as possible.
Pic 1: The Royal George off Deptford by John Cleveley (Detail)
Pic 2: A Danish timber barque by Samuel Scott (Detail).



Sources: http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/15075.html

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Samuel_Scott_-_A_Danish_Timber_Bark_Getting_Under_Way.jpg



Your presentation of the exhibition ist great stuff. Please continue.

Hartmut

 

[schiffbaur]

Thank you, Maarten, for this impressive insight into the painting of the two van de Veldes (and of course for your interesting explanations). Much of it was unknown to me.

Apart from that, I'm curious to know if anyone knows what function the strange "wipers on the bar" have?

Once again: thank you very much!

Fritz Baur (schiffbaur)

 

[Uwek]

And another question
What is this?
View attachment 296103

View attachment 296153

I have a theory which could answer my own question

This is installed every time close to a gunport or window, so could it be, that this is somehow a very early "toilet-paper"-device?
some fabric / cloth / wool at the end of a rope

the seat of ease is the gunport, after finishing the "job" make the device wet in the water and clean / wash what is necessary to wash

and in the box @Maarten showed are some soap or other accessoires ......

 

[Gebirgsmarine]

Just browsed the online museum shop.
Catalog in Dutch only

 

[Uwek]

Here you can see them also at the bow, which would underline my theory

 

[NMBROOK]

Here you can see them also at the bow, which would underline my theory

View attachment 296236

View attachment 296234

View attachment 296237

View attachment 296235

Uwe that theory is entirely feasible and there is a good chance they are hanging out to dry between uses.

Don't think it will catch on again in this day and age

Kind Regards

Nigel

 

[Maarten]

I had thought of it but they seemed a little too big for this, but seeing the last pictures I guess you are right. It must be an allemanseindje. Free translated to the end that is used by everybody.

 

[Steef66]

In the blue circle there is another one.
Those are for cleaning. In the front they are hanging to for cleaning the anchor.
There was also a discussion in Mati.n his log on page 10 about these.

Pinnace Papegojan 1627 - 1/48 [COMPLETED BUILD]

Good day Dear Matt, there are some more eye catching details which are repeatedly shown on pictures of many 17th century Dutch vessels and on some contemporaneous 17th famous models as well- I took this Eendracht 1653 just as good example of such details. Dear Ab, Could You Please advise and...

shipsofscale.com

Landstrom also mentioning them in his book telling these where for cleaning the anchor. In the back, well what can we say. Cleaning the ornaments? They are way to big to wipe your back off. that's for sure.

Edit: another possible reason is that they hang there to dry. after they clean the floor they where hang outside to dry. That's the reason maybe why they hang so close to a gun port or window.

 

[Heinrich]

Thank you @Steef66 Stephan for answering. I knew we had this discussion before, but I couldn't remember from when or what log it was.

 

[Uwek]

Those are for cleaning. In the front they are hanging to for cleaning the anchor.

but.... please do not forget also the following post by Ab and the following discussion

3. are the 'all-men's-ends, with which the users of the toilets in the beakhead wiped their bottoms. (Steef66, I heard you say before that this were mops to clean the anchors. I don't know where you got this theory from, but it illustrates exactly what I said about using Landstrom as a source. He was a wonderful artist, but he sometimes made misinterpretations of what he saw on the Van de Velde drawings. I never saw any inventory list of 17th century ships with a special tool to clean the anchors. Who cares to clean an anchor coming out of the water?). Of course it is also possible that we see some mops here, but for cleaning the anchors? I really have my doubts.

A final definition or common opinion was one year ago still open

BTW: My doupts for cleaning anchors is based on the fact, that they are installed either on the bow and also at the stern and the gallerie of the ships, There were no anchors and no equipment to lift the anchors, The stern anchors were handled via the ship boats.

I have my doubts that the captain will allow any seaman cleaning the anchor from the window of his captains room

 

[Steef66]

but.... please do not forget also the following post by Ab and the following discussion

You have to read a little bit further Ab gives another conclusion later

I have my doubts that the captain will allow any seaman cleaning the anchor from the window of his captains room

They could also hanging there after the captains cabin is cleaned. Who will now. It is something that happens a lot because a lot of paintings show these mobs.

Edit:

Text-Book of Seamanship

on page 308 and further you can find the duty's of sailers on ships
and It was page 301 or so where I found this:

He should make frequent and careful inspections of the outside of the after part of the ship to see that no ropes are hanging over, that the chains and gangway ladders are clean, and that the outside of the ship always presents a neat and trim appearance.

So I think they hang there for cleaning the stern when entering the port.

 

[Heinrich]

Gentlemen - seeing that you are so infatuated with a mop, the following: Van de Velde was known for his proportional accuracy of his grisailles of which the above is an example. Look at the length of that mop - it spans more than the entire width of the bolle wulf! How in heaven's name would you clean your arse with that? Secondly, the Spiegel was reserved for the captain and officers and had interior toilets - on Dutch ships these were often found in the side galleries. The mop at the stern was most likely used for the purposes outlined by @Steef66 - that of cleaning the spiegel and the spiegel windows which would constantly have been dirty because of the sea spray and mist. Live near the coast and you will know what I mean.

 

[Uwek]

Sorry @Maarten for this in the meantime off topic discussion.........
But I am not convinced about a cleaning mob for the spiegel or others - in the meantime I found out, that they are celled in German "Hygienetau" and were definitely used after using the seat of ease or at the stern the gunports




btw you can find one more of these boxes directly over the waterline and under the gunport

Maybe it is better to open a new topic for a single "mob"-discussion