Vasa - 1:65 DeAgostini [COMPLETED BUILD]

dockattner said:
Robands - the new ratlines...

View attachment 314319

The view from the backside. Proper reef knots throughout ROTF:

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And on the front:

View attachment 314317

One down. Nine to go.

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This is going to take a while!

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Beautifully neat and tidy work Paul,
For anyone wishing to look at you model in the flesh, I think there should always be a magnifying glass at hand.
Just a thought are there any foot ropes?

Cheers,
Stephen.
 
Stevedownunder said:
Beautifully neat and tidy work Paul,
For anyone wishing to look at you model in the flesh, I think there should always be a magnifying glass at hand.
Just a thought are there any foot ropes?

Cheers,
Stephen.
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Hello Stephen,

It seems the Vasa missed footropes by a decade or two...or so my research suggests. If I am mistaken I'm sure someone will straighten me out.

You know, if people start looking at this ship under magnification I'll need to go back and re-do a few things I've taken visual shortcuts on :rolleyes:. Maybe I'll put museum ropes around it so people can't get too close ROTF. My grandsons have already learned - we look with our EYES not our HANDS!
 
This is all fascinating discussion. For my part, one of the main things that I value about this community is that it is predominantly (or at least seems so to me) made up of Europeans, who naturally have a broader interest in earlier time periods. For me, this means that the individual libraries that inform that interest are often far broader than what is readily available to me in the States.

Language is often problematic, even amongst native English speakers (perhaps, especially?). I think it is fair to say, here, that the general intent amongst us is to be helpful. And, likewise, a tone-check isn’t a bad idea from time to time.

I often wonder whether what I type into Google Translate really conveys the nuance I intended. Unfortunately, my French competency is limited, at best. So, in all likelihood, I’ve been “brass,” too, especially when I didn’t intend to be.

As for the Dutch tendency toward directness of thought and speech, this is a virtue, IMO!
 
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dockattner said:
Hello Stephen,

It seems the Vasa missed footropes by a decade or two...or so my research suggests. If I am mistaken I'm sure someone will straighten me out.

You know, if people start looking at this ship under magnification I'll need to go back and re-do a few things I've taken visual shortcuts on :rolleyes:. Maybe I'll put museum ropes around it so people can't get too close ROTF. My grandsons have already learned - we look with our EYES not our HANDS!
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This is an interesting question. I am applying the same question to French practice in the late 1680s, and it appears that may not have been the case. Further studies and research to follow.
 
dockattner said:
Hello Stephen,

It seems the Vasa missed footropes by a decade or two...or so my research suggests. If I am mistaken I'm sure someone will straighten me out.

You know, if people start looking at this ship under magnification I'll need to go back and re-do a few things I've taken visual shortcuts on :rolleyes:. Maybe I'll put museum ropes around it so people can't get too close ROTF. My grandsons have already learned - we look with our EYES not our HANDS!
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If you put it in a case, and I assume you will to keep dust and hands off, then people have to view from a few feet away and can’t lean in and get too close. 2 foot rule! ;)
 
dockattner said:
Hello Stephen,

It seems the Vasa missed footropes by a decade or two...or so my research suggests. If I am mistaken I'm sure someone will straighten me out.

You know, if people start looking at this ship under magnification I'll need to go back and re-do a few things I've taken visual shortcuts on :rolleyes:. Maybe I'll put museum ropes around it so people can't get too close ROTF. My grandsons have already learned - we look with our EYES not our HANDS!
Click to expand...
dockattner said:
Hello Stephen,

It seems the Vasa missed footropes by a decade or two...or so my research suggests. If I am mistaken I'm sure someone will straighten me out.

You know, if people start looking at this ship under magnification I'll need to go back and re-do a few things I've taken visual shortcuts on :rolleyes:. Maybe I'll put museum ropes around it so people can't get too close ROTF. My grandsons have already learned - we look with our EYES not our HANDS!
Click to expand...
Hi Paul,
You are probably right, I wouldn't know, although it makes me wonder at how difficult it would have been to handle the sails without foot ropes.

I tend to doubt there are too many problems that would be shown up with close inspection on your model.
Glass cases are the go to keep interested hands, cats and dust off models.

Cheers,
Stephen.
 
dockattner said:
Hello Stephen,

It seems the Vasa missed footropes by a decade or two...or so my research suggests. If I am mistaken I'm sure someone will straighten me out.

You know, if people start looking at this ship under magnification I'll need to go back and re-do a few things I've taken visual shortcuts on :rolleyes:. Maybe I'll put museum ropes around it so people can't get too close ROTF. My grandsons have already learned - we look with our EYES not our HANDS!
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You absolutely right...unfortunately no footropes for Vasa and other vessels in her time and even later ...only acrobatic left for seamen !!! :)))
Ps
For references /interesting details such as how many robands could be expected per cloth, absence of footropes ,еtc., someone interested could examine pictures ,link in my signature - Rijksmuseum
 
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kirill4 said:
Indeed, made nice and looks nice!
Paul ,is there a plan to add more robands or this is your final version?
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Hi Kirill,

Well, I suspected it was one of two things that you were "keep my mouth shut" about...

1: my modified roband configuration. Anderson describes a more complicated routing of the robands than I have used. But when I used his design it simply produced too much bulk of rope under the yard. I left off one 'loop' and thought it looked much cleaner.

OR

2: the number of robands. Mondfeld (who, by the way, has a surprising number of mistakes in his primer) and at least one other source show one roband per panel. Most everyone else uses 2-3 robands per panel. Obviously, I have done one roband per panel.

Here is where it gets complicated. For the larger sails I wanted to do a double roband (and will use a single roband on the smaller sails). This approach is defendable via several reliable sources (Mondfeld as well). But when I did a double roband at 2 robands per panel it was visually overwhelming. I had two choices - go back to a single roband and double the number, or use double robands at half the number. Obviously, I chose the later.

Plus, there is another thing in play here. It is my opinion that there are times when doing it the 'right' way (like in the real world) it actually doesn't work that well at scale. When that happens I have chosen to simplify the 'count' of things (for example, my hull does not attempt to reproduce every bolt and trenail - but a representative sampling that captures the look if not the reality).

I'm not confident that robands should fall into that category (artistry over reality) but that is where I am thus far.

For the record, I have produced roughly 80% of the number of robands as the 1:10 at the museum. It looks less because of the doubling.

Anyway, I suspect everyone won't agree with my artistic choices - but it's not as if I haven't given the questions adequate consideration.
 
Hi Paul! :)))
You just see my thoughts !!!:)))
1.totaly agreed
2.
When I was busy with making my robands, now it looks like I was thinking in the same direction as You...and choosen to fitt one roband per plate, as You did...
but now , when I look at you work, I m start thinking again about it ( run my thoughts in idle :))) , how to show robands on the next model, and I planned to try to show at least two or three robands per plate...than it will be more closer to pictorial evidance...
but as You mentioned, there is a risk of "visually overwhelming "construction... to avoid that, I see one way, if try to use thinner thread, than I used before ?
next time I will try it ...it should work, I hope...but need to make experiment...
As for the rest , I share Your point of vew , when You say ... "Plus, there is another thing in play here. It is my opinion that there are times when doing it the 'right' way (like in the real world) it actually doesn't work that well at scale. When that happens I have chosen to simplify the 'count' of things (for example, my hull does not attempt to reproduce every bolt and trenail - but a representative sampling that captures the look if not the reality)."
For me personaly, my goal, the results which I want to reach, when made my plastic kit ready , it should be visual appearance of the model , which would be as much as closer to the drwngs of the vessels on the old artist drawings,
like Van de Velde older for example or Vroom ...from my point of vew - this would be ideal for the small models of sailing vessels...
Tgese artists shown all major, important eyes catching details, everything we expected to see on the "galleon " are at place, however sometimes some details were exegorated a little bit, some of the elements, but in whole, they gave us clear, detailed images of the such vessels without falling in excessive detalization ...
At least , as idea, I think , on the small scale model,lets say up to 1:144,
we could / or could try to reproduce all elements which could be seen on the Velde or Vroom drawings... ?
Like here for example...

20220618_111911.jpg
 
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@dockattner good choice to take lesser robands and loops. I didn"t do that on my Spanish Galleon and it looks to much.
The question of @kirill4 to use thinner rope is a good one too. Looking to pictures he shared but also some reading I did I think they use the same rope like the ratlines. On your scale would that be rope arond the 0,15 mm in diameter. I used also thick rope on the SG. A mistake I can compensatie on my PW. But like you said Paul, how you do it with less, perfect!!
 
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