Vasa - 1:65 DeAgostini [COMPLETED BUILD]

kirill4 said:
G

Good day Paul,
I left my remarks because I see Your great abilities for precision works, but your sails in present stage/ means rough issues with bolt rope and crigles, far from high standarts of your entire model... :))) ... and I saw some our collegues appreciate such mistakes? :))) but from my point of vew, thee mistakes are principal , which easily could be avoided...how sail should looks with all posible details even in simplified form...I don't know, may be Im wrong and better should say - Oh..!!! How Perfect they are !!!
I see that You very well able to make all that small but necessary corrections needed to be made on your sails, before You will start making complete set...
ALL THE BEST!

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No need to defend yourself Kirill. I was not offended by your post (indeed this whole build is just a dalliance for me so it would be difficult to hurt my feelings). And neither do I take the accolades of our colleagues lightly - overcoming challenges in ship building is worth celebrating.

As I explained in my original post, I have seen modelers 'repair' the breech in the bolt rope by fitting a tiny segment of rope under the cringle. I believe I might be able to do that convincingly. I suppose I could also remove the current bolt rope but then I am left with the challenge of splicing in cringles and I just don't think that is a defendable time expense. I didn't even splice the main stay so I can't see myself attempting that now :D.

Thanks again, everyone, for sharing your thoughts. It takes a village...
 
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For cringles, it seems easier to make the cringle and a separate piece from the bolt rope. I too attached the bolt rope to the sail all the way along the edge of the sail, the too a short length of line and passed it through the bolt rope with a needle at the locations where cringle was was attached to the bolt rope. Add a bit of CA or PVA glue to the two joints, and trim off the excess cringle line, and you're done. The cringle looks like it is spliced into the bolt rope. If you split the end of the cringle roped into the three cords and sew those cords through the bolt rope cords individually, you can make an even better simulation of the splice.
 
dockattner said:
Hello Friends,

Nearly two weeks has passed since research and work commenced on my sails. I have experimented with silkspan (tissue 'paper' but made from woven silk - I would recommend this for small scale models as it is very fine; I found it a bit too transparent at my scale), glue-laminating panels to build up sails (as Kirill has pointed out laminated panels can actually be made 'soft' by wetting them down though I believe this requires the use of a certain adhesive strip); as well as the linen fabric from Whaleys I mentioned previously (this is what I am about to show you).

I started with a template created using the sails that came with my kit adjusted according to the Billing's sail plan and the actual lengths of my yards. Here is the main topsail as an example:

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I then cut out the fabric (oversized) and popped over to my mom's house to sew faux panels (in the following image you will see I used a straight-line stitch at 1.5 mm). I suspect my mom's sewing machine needs a tune-up though to be fair the human eye cannot see this close):

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I then traced the sail onto the fabric using heat-erasing ink (marked 3 mm oversized to account for a future fold). Here is the final result after the fold:

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As you can see, I ended up choosing to NOT sew around the perimeter of the sail at the fold. While I actually like the sewing in the field of the sail that represents panels - when I sewed the perimeter it just looked out of scale to me. Part of the reason for that might have been my choice of thread color. Anyway, I convinced myself that leaving off the perimeter stitching looked marginally better.

Here is the back side where you can see I did a single fold and mitered the corners (some corners turned out better than others). In order to keep the perimeter of the sail as thin as possible I did not fold over the fold (a double fold to hide the cut edge). Why is my fabric not unraveling? I treated the fabric cut line with a product called Fray Check from Dritz:

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Next up was securing a bolt rope. Once again, I attempted to sew this to the perimeter of the sail but wasn't too impressed with my hand stitching. I ended up just gluing the rope to the edge of the sail. I tacked the bolt rope every inch or two using CA and then went back with a fabric glue called Liquid Stitch. Honestly, it's probably overpriced PVA, but it dries colorless, does not leave a mark on the fabric, and remains surprisingly flexible. Here is the bolt rope:

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As I installed the bolt rope I added in the necessary details. Here are a few images...

Clews on the lower corners:

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Cringles on the sides of the sail along with reinforcing patches:

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And earing cringles at the top corners:

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I have seen some modelers splice in a tiny piece of bolt rope under these attachment points. I may give that a go. I also think I may need to add something like stitching to the reinforcement patches to highlight them (???) - or maybe not.

Here is the overall appearance thus far:

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I am happy to hear your suggestions for improving my work. I have 9 more of these sails to make so I'll be at this for a while.

As always, I feel blessed that you would take the time away from your own builds to see what is happening on mine.
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I really do like the look of your sails Paul. When I consider your efforts and then comments from @kirill4, my task at hand seems daunting. Like you, when I get to that point, I shall have to dive in headfirst, study the masters, make decisions then just do it!
 
On this scale, you gonna need indian eyes to see the cringles when the sails are in place fully rigged. The ropes and knots will take away your view of the full cringles and only a little part of it will be visible. Paul, your sewing on this little sail, I think 9x12 cm, is superb. Love the tiny stitches. Your bolt rope looks great, nicely attached to the sail. You mentioned by yourself that the cringles where not how you like them, so we wait how you gonna solve that.
dockattner said:
I have seen some modelers splice in a tiny piece of bolt rope under these attachment points. I may give that a go
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That's why I and many others appreciate the way you do it till now. It's looking very realistic.
Daniel don't be afraid by what others say, you are the captain and on pictures you see more than in real life.

Edit: I see you did the tiny piece of rope in the cringles. Perfect. When the rigging is fully attached you can hardly see how it is done
 
Steef66 said:
Daniel don't be afraid by what others say, you are the captain and on pictures you see more than in real life.
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Correct. I just measured and what I have shown in the above images is just about 4x life size. We've all seen your work Daniel - it won't be easy, but I have no doubt you will accomplish something you can take pride in.

As I posted earlier, I did a fair amount of experimenting with different materials and techniques. I liked the feel of actual cloth in my hands, and I think it has just about the right amount of translucency. Now, nine more to be fabricated and then I need to practice hanging them.

Question for anyone: do you recommend mounting the sail and then adding all the yard and sail blocks - or the other way around? I won't install anything on a mast until I have done everything possible off the ship.

B7E7CF0E-9E2E-4FA0-86B8-C85A4F177689.jpeg

The view from my covid-infested workroom. Twenty-six months staying away from it (mind you, I work 18 inches away from around 80 mouths per day) - and now this. Ugh.
 
dockattner said:
do you recommend mounting the sail and then adding all the yard and sail blocks - or the other way around
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I can only tell how I gonna do by experience, and that is mount the sail and add then all the blocks. The reason is knotting the sail on the yard is a big thing doing. And blocks will be in the way. Just experiment both ways. So you gonna do 8 sail in the easy way.
 
dockattner said:
Correct. I just measured and what I have shown in the above images is just about 4x life size. We've all seen your work Daniel - it won't be easy, but I have no doubt you will accomplish something you can take pride in.

As I posted earlier, I did a fair amount of experimenting with different materials and techniques. I liked the feel of actual cloth in my hands, and I think it has just about the right amount of translucency. Now, nine more to be fabricated and then I need to practice hanging them.

Question for anyone: do you recommend mounting the sail and then adding all the yard and sail blocks - or the other way around? I won't install anything on a mast until I have done everything possible off the ship.

View attachment 313048

The view from my covid-infested workroom. Twenty-six months staying away from it (mind you, I work 18 inches away from around 80 mouths per day) - and now this. Ugh.
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I appreciate your encouragement, Paul. I don't see this challenge as something I'm afraid of by any stretch, the daunting part would be not being able to produce a sail that would be up to my 'mind's eye standard' if you will.

I would think it best to do as much preassembly (off ship) as possible. That way you are minimizing tugging and pushing on slender glued parts.

I hate to hear you got a positive covid reaction, prayers for you my friend for a rapid recovery.
 
dockattner said:
Correct. I just measured and what I have shown in the above images is just about 4x life size. We've all seen your work Daniel - it won't be easy, but I have no doubt you will accomplish something you can take pride in.

As I posted earlier, I did a fair amount of experimenting with different materials and techniques. I liked the feel of actual cloth in my hands, and I think it has just about the right amount of translucency. Now, nine more to be fabricated and then I need to practice hanging them.

Question for anyone: do you recommend mounting the sail and then adding all the yard and sail blocks - or the other way around? I won't install anything on a mast until I have done everything possible off the ship.

View attachment 313048

The view from my covid-infested workroom. Twenty-six months staying away from it (mind you, I work 18 inches away from around 80 mouths per day) - and now this. Ugh.
Click to expand...
Paul, great sail. I personally install all the blocks, perts on the yard and only then tie the sail
 
dockattner said:
Correct. I just measured and what I have shown in the above images is just about 4x life size. We've all seen your work Daniel - it won't be easy, but I have no doubt you will accomplish something you can take pride in.

As I posted earlier, I did a fair amount of experimenting with different materials and techniques. I liked the feel of actual cloth in my hands, and I think it has just about the right amount of translucency. Now, nine more to be fabricated and then I need to practice hanging them.

Question for anyone: do you recommend mounting the sail and then adding all the yard and sail blocks - or the other way around? I won't install anything on a mast until I have done everything possible off the ship.

View attachment 313048

The view from my covid-infested workroom. Twenty-six months staying away from it (mind you, I work 18 inches away from around 80 mouths per day) - and now this. Ugh.
Click to expand...
in my opinion there are two working phases for the sails, prepare the flagpole with all the accessories as well as the sail and then combine them
 
dockattner said:
Correct. I just measured and what I have shown in the above images is just about 4x life size. We've all seen your work Daniel - it won't be easy, but I have no doubt you will accomplish something you can take pride in.

As I posted earlier, I did a fair amount of experimenting with different materials and techniques. I liked the feel of actual cloth in my hands, and I think it has just about the right amount of translucency. Now, nine more to be fabricated and then I need to practice hanging them.

Question for anyone: do you recommend mounting the sail and then adding all the yard and sail blocks - or the other way around? I won't install anything on a mast until I have done everything possible off the ship.

View attachment 313048

The view from my covid-infested workroom. Twenty-six months staying away from it (mind you, I work 18 inches away from around 80 mouths per day) - and now this. Ugh.
Click to expand...
Hi Paul,

Sorry to hear you have covid I hope you didn't get it badly, it took me 3 weeks to start feeling better.

Great work on the sail.

Cheers,
Stephen.
 
Thanks Steve. As long as it doesn't get worse, I'll survive. I've been trying to work on my ship to distract me from how I feel - but sometimes I need to walk away. My biggest fear is that I gave it to my whole family... Because of my job I test myself most every day - but I felt fine yesterday and didn't bother with the test. By evening I started to deteriorate.
 
dockattner said:
Thanks Steve. As long as it doesn't get worse, I'll survive. I've been trying to work on my ship to distract me from how I feel - but sometimes I need to walk away. My biggest fear is that I gave it to my whole family... Because of my job I test myself most every day - but I felt fine yesterday and didn't bother with the test. By evening I started to deteriorate.
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I'll be praying for a quick recovery and that God does a work in your families immune system to protect them from getting Covid.

Please take care of yourself and if there is any other need for prayer please don't hesitate to let me know!!
 
I am watching and reading your journey on sail making and noting plenty from the many expert comments, I think you are doing great.
My thoughts do turn to your scale at 1:65 and my scale 1:85 and I am struggling to see a way forward to replicate it on my build.

All the best with your covid recovery and hopefully you can keep building.
A bit like you after avoiding it for so long one recent outing with many people and voila.
 
Paul I know exactly how you feel about the work situation and Covid. So far I have been lucky, but who knows when luck runs out? I will hope and pray that you are one of those who contract Covid without really experiencing all the bad that can go with it. Your work on the sails - as indeed as in your whole build - is admirable. Keep that chin up my friend!
 
Good day
Dear Paul,
I wish You fastest, fastest covid recovery !
Now I see your solution with cringles,!:)))
personaly I still didn't catch why You try to find other way but not just to fitt in smal piece of thiner rope which will looks more natural as cringles, but Your solution looks pretty good!!!
Wich You all the best!
Ps
Regarding yard- sail assembling, I would reccomend to assemble complete yard with sail and all necessary blocks and rigging(clew lines,bowlines,crowfeets ,bunt lines etc.) and after that try to fitt it to the mast...
 
I would add blocks to the yards, and to the clews on the sail, then bend the sail to the yard using robands, which are correct for the early 17th century. You can add the martnets later. Bend sails from the top and work down. It's hard to run the running rigging to the deck belaying points when the main courses are in the way, so do those last.
 
Get well soon Paul!
I agree with your observation of buying quality rope. I think rigging a ship is time consuming enough without having to make the rope in addition. I guess it comes down to how much you enjoy making rope.
Unfortunately my hobby time is limited, and adding more time and work without a difference in quality, seems like a bad trade. This assumes you can buy rope the same quality or better than you can make. For me, that answer is yes. ;)
Your sails look very good! Once again ROI is the key factor in most of my decisions. If the extra work and time result in a resounding difference, then it was time well spent. In my opinion, your extra efforts thus far on this model have all been time well spent! Keep up the good work! ;)
 
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