I am glad we agree upon! This is exactly my point, a collectible model will be made out of finest wood possible\available because that timber will be included in the total price of the model, so in this case, the wood will add to the value.
Wood it's characteristics and use in model building
- Thread starter Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)
- Start date
- Watchers 36
-
- Tags
- wood wood characteristics
I am glad we agree upon! This is exactly my point, a collectible model will be made out of finest wood possible\available because that timber will be included in the total price of the model, so in this case, the wood will add to the value.
Hi Uwek,It is looking like very small grain and a beautiful light color - I am looking forward to see this timber as deck-planks
Yes, I have had Houn pine that ranges from the light color to a honey color the darker color being heavier and tougher. Huon pine is a very slow growing timber think thousand years ,very fine grain, lovely to work with with a unique smell, although if you want to bend it it needs to be steamed in my experience.
Cheers,
Stephen.
For those members not familiar with Huon Pine, its not a pine at all and looks like a prehistoric tree.
They can live for thousands of years and they are a protected species. You need to be licensed to collect timber, and only dead logs are permissable .
..
They can live for thousands of years and they are a protected species. You need to be licensed to collect timber, and only dead logs are permissable .
..
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,521
- Points
- 728
it has been awhile since i posted anything here
So lets take a look at decks the images do not give an exact color due to different computers, photography etc. but what the point is, the fact in model building a style arose to make decks as white as possible. Reasons for this seems to be lost to the last generation of model builders. Being in the lumber business for years over and over i get requests for "white" holly as white as possible. Holly tends to be so white it will have an ever so slight blue tint to stark glowing white.
My thought on this trend was some time ago someone posted decks were holly stoned and there is no such thing as a holly stone per say, but perhaps the term holly stoning a deck and the wood Holly somehow got connected.
In real life i never saw a stark white deck.
To start this i first looked at what wood decks were actually planked in seems in North America the wood was Southern Yellow pine Other countries like England White Oak was used and neither one of these woods are white, not even close. So what woods might be white? what comes to mind besides Holly is European Hornbeam this is a small tree and it would take a forest of Hornbeams to plank a deck. Besides it is not really white more of a cream pink color. Another reason for not using Hornbeam is it is very dense and heavy oftern died black and used in place of Ebony.
white oak is indeed light in color but still not white more of a light tan.
the only way you will get the white you see on models is if the real decks were painted white there is no natural white wood that looks like what you see on models.
going out in the wild lets see if we can find a possible reason for this style of model building
So lets take a look at decks the images do not give an exact color due to different computers, photography etc. but what the point is, the fact in model building a style arose to make decks as white as possible. Reasons for this seems to be lost to the last generation of model builders. Being in the lumber business for years over and over i get requests for "white" holly as white as possible. Holly tends to be so white it will have an ever so slight blue tint to stark glowing white.
My thought on this trend was some time ago someone posted decks were holly stoned and there is no such thing as a holly stone per say, but perhaps the term holly stoning a deck and the wood Holly somehow got connected.
In real life i never saw a stark white deck.
To start this i first looked at what wood decks were actually planked in seems in North America the wood was Southern Yellow pine Other countries like England White Oak was used and neither one of these woods are white, not even close. So what woods might be white? what comes to mind besides Holly is European Hornbeam this is a small tree and it would take a forest of Hornbeams to plank a deck. Besides it is not really white more of a cream pink color. Another reason for not using Hornbeam is it is very dense and heavy oftern died black and used in place of Ebony.
white oak is indeed light in color but still not white more of a light tan.
the only way you will get the white you see on models is if the real decks were painted white there is no natural white wood that looks like what you see on models.
going out in the wild lets see if we can find a possible reason for this style of model building
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,521
- Points
- 728
meet Pete a chain saw carving from a log of White Oak been standing in the yard for maybe 15 years
sneeking up on Pete
notice the white silver gray
going out into the field lets look at more samples of what wood does when left out doors
a beam of Oak and it does turn gray to almost white, is this what model builders are trying to copy?
All wood will change to gray here is a chunk of Walnut
another chunk of Walnut that was in a stack, the end sticking out turned almost white
some wood that starts out light colored like this hunk of Poplar will turn almost a bluish white color
so yes wooden decks on ships will be a gray to white color but not a stark white. Some say oh but wait those gray decks once holly stoned will turn white. Nope it is just the opsite the more they are holly stoned the darker the deck will get not lighter.
here is a board of wood left to its natural aging color. When cut it is the natural color you see to the left
lets say this is a piece of decking as you sand it or "holly stone the deck" you are sanding through the gray and back to its natural color. So it is not getting lighter it is getting darker. Sand southern Yellow pine it gets tan not white, sand White Oak and it does not get white it gets darker to a yellowish tan color.
so why model builders use a stark white color it seems to be a modeling style and nothing more than that.
sneeking up on Pete
notice the white silver gray
going out into the field lets look at more samples of what wood does when left out doors
a beam of Oak and it does turn gray to almost white, is this what model builders are trying to copy?
All wood will change to gray here is a chunk of Walnut
another chunk of Walnut that was in a stack, the end sticking out turned almost white
some wood that starts out light colored like this hunk of Poplar will turn almost a bluish white color
so yes wooden decks on ships will be a gray to white color but not a stark white. Some say oh but wait those gray decks once holly stoned will turn white. Nope it is just the opsite the more they are holly stoned the darker the deck will get not lighter.
here is a board of wood left to its natural aging color. When cut it is the natural color you see to the left
lets say this is a piece of decking as you sand it or "holly stone the deck" you are sanding through the gray and back to its natural color. So it is not getting lighter it is getting darker. Sand southern Yellow pine it gets tan not white, sand White Oak and it does not get white it gets darker to a yellowish tan color.
so why model builders use a stark white color it seems to be a modeling style and nothing more than that.
DAVE THOSE PIECS OF WALNUT YOU SENT ME THE BROWN BLACK JUST A BEAUTIFUL WOOD CAN YOU DESCRIBE IT MORE PLEASE AND DO YOU HAVE ANY MORE LIKE IT. GOD BLESS YOU AND EV DON
Extremely informative Dave, I love when you explain stuff like this. Did you carve out Pete? Thats some fantasic artistry whoever did,
I've always been captivated by such things. I can just sit and study them for hours.
I've always been captivated by such things. I can just sit and study them for hours.
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,521
- Points
- 728
years ago i got into chain saw carving i mostly did apes and monkeys Pete was the first one i did before the monkeys
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,521
- Points
- 728
back in the days of logging we used timbers for skids and other stuff. The gray on weathered beams does not really go that deep into the wood, the wood itself will rot before it turns gray all the way through.
so with that in mind if a deck is in constant use the gray will wear off and turn brown or a dirty gray brown color. If a deck is not used it will turn a darker and darker dirty gray. going below deck even protected from the weather wood still turns gray once it starts turning black that is the last stage before rot.
this is the true color of White Oak so a deck in use and one that is cleaned and holly stones (sanded) will end up this color because you are rubbing off the gray and down to the color of the wood.
so with that in mind if a deck is in constant use the gray will wear off and turn brown or a dirty gray brown color. If a deck is not used it will turn a darker and darker dirty gray. going below deck even protected from the weather wood still turns gray once it starts turning black that is the last stage before rot.
this is the true color of White Oak so a deck in use and one that is cleaned and holly stones (sanded) will end up this color because you are rubbing off the gray and down to the color of the wood.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,521
- Points
- 728
so what you see here is stylized modeling and not a representation of the deck of a ship not that there is anything wrong with the style it is actually close to the examples of what happens to wood over time it turns a silver gray if left alone
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,521
- Points
- 728
that came from these logs that Walnut tree was around 150 years old beautiful Walnut the woor carvers and wood turners well all over that wood
Absolutely amazing when you stop to think about it. Real ships of sail were in use when the wood you are modelling with was a wee sapling. Wow.
OH FANTASTIC INFORMATION, WHEN I PLACE MY ORDER WITH EV CAN I ORDER MORE LET ME KNOW WANT TO ORDER EARLY IN THE WEEK. GOD BLESS STAY SAFE YOU AND EV. DON
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,521
- Points
- 728
why were battleship decks planked in wood?
Quote "
An active battleship had large amount of gunpowder that had to be transported on and off of the ship. Teak served as protection preventing metal-on-metal scraping, which could potentially create sparks, thus fires"
Besides, as sun protection avoiding overheating space below deck
Early aircraft carriers like ESSEX that I was aboard also. Aviation Gasoline, bombs, 20mm,40mm, 5"/38 ammo, too many things that can be set off by a spark or hitting a steel deck. The essex class carriers also used wood as it was lighter than steel providing more stability. Even after they were refitted with the angle deck, they retained the wood as the steel framing below wasn't designed for supporting steel deck plating. They did use thinner steel plates as an overlay in the area where the planes hit the deck when landing and behind the area where the jets took off to protect the wood.
Flight deck maintenance was a constant thing.
EJ
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,521
- Points
- 728
The reason for white decks is to provide artistic contrast against the darker colored furniture, railings, and hull planks... It is a "style"...
It is beautiful... It is painting with wood. It was never intended to be "historical".....
Take a look at the deck of my 17th Century Battle Station based on Jeff Staudt plans. Deck planks in white maple!!!!
It look great!!! It allows the seams and treenails to contrast.
It is artistic!!!
Regards,
Mike
yes so lets get artistic and paint with wood nice subtle shades of gray by the way
what we are looking at is tulp poplar the wide white is Holly and the thin white is Maple
this wood is serached out by wood turners and carvers because it can have beautiful streaks of color
what it also has are shades from almost white to gray and mellow yellow
so lets go out in the wild log yard
first through Evs formal gardens down the pathway and out to the wild
a pile
under the tarp are big chunks of tulip poplar you can see the red flame pattern in the first chunk
deep inside that chunk to the right has flames of yellows and reds
a one of a kind natural weathered planks hand picked for color humm?
note: i leave decks unfinished because they will mellow out in color and get a patina in time.
It is beautiful... It is painting with wood. It was never intended to be "historical".....
Take a look at the deck of my 17th Century Battle Station based on Jeff Staudt plans. Deck planks in white maple!!!!
It look great!!! It allows the seams and treenails to contrast.
It is artistic!!!
Regards,
Mike
yes so lets get artistic and paint with wood nice subtle shades of gray by the way
what we are looking at is tulp poplar the wide white is Holly and the thin white is Maple
this wood is serached out by wood turners and carvers because it can have beautiful streaks of color
what it also has are shades from almost white to gray and mellow yellow
so lets go out in the wild log yard
first through Evs formal gardens down the pathway and out to the wild
a pile
under the tarp are big chunks of tulip poplar you can see the red flame pattern in the first chunk
deep inside that chunk to the right has flames of yellows and reds
a one of a kind natural weathered planks hand picked for color humm?
note: i leave decks unfinished because they will mellow out in color and get a patina in time.
Wow Dave.... Just WOW!!
Taken from Quora.
The simple answer is tradition. This is reminiscent of earlier sailing days and lineage to sailing vessels.
But using wooden decks as structural members or supplemental armor? Forget about it. Wood, when damaged by she'll fire has the nasty habits of either being a fire hazard or splintering off and being a personal hazard. “Wooden Decks” were purely ornamental. Secured in place, mechanically fastened, and upkeep lovingly provided by ship’s force in the time honored practice of holy stoning (OK, that last bit was sarcasm…stoning wooden decks is a labor intensive work assignment.
The IJN ships Yamato and Musashi were not the only ships to have this wooden ornamentation. US Navy battleships had them as well Iowa Class Battleships (built circa 1944) had wooden decks. In fact, the Japanese surrender was signed on the USS Missouri, atop a wooden deck. ALASKA class Battle cruisers (built 1945) had them, Both heavy and light cruisers had them as well.
Location was usually by the quarterdeck when officials came aboard or departed, the ship’ Commanding Officers wished to leave an impression on visiting dignitaries.
Wood selection: The preferred wood of choice was Teak. This wood is renowned for both its beauty and it's resistance to rot.
The last US Navy ship to have external wood on deck (not counting the live oak used in the US Constitution) was the Nuclear Powered Guided Missile Cruiser USS Long Beach (CGN-9), which was so adorned until her decommissioning circa mid 1990′s.
There will alway be that one officer who wishes to impress their superiors and have a section of wood decking of limited size installed in different locations (Ahem, USS Nimitz late 1990s) but per Naval Directives and the General Specification for Overhaul and Repair (GENSPECS) clearly outlaw this practice.
The simple answer is tradition. This is reminiscent of earlier sailing days and lineage to sailing vessels.
But using wooden decks as structural members or supplemental armor? Forget about it. Wood, when damaged by she'll fire has the nasty habits of either being a fire hazard or splintering off and being a personal hazard. “Wooden Decks” were purely ornamental. Secured in place, mechanically fastened, and upkeep lovingly provided by ship’s force in the time honored practice of holy stoning (OK, that last bit was sarcasm…stoning wooden decks is a labor intensive work assignment.
The IJN ships Yamato and Musashi were not the only ships to have this wooden ornamentation. US Navy battleships had them as well Iowa Class Battleships (built circa 1944) had wooden decks. In fact, the Japanese surrender was signed on the USS Missouri, atop a wooden deck. ALASKA class Battle cruisers (built 1945) had them, Both heavy and light cruisers had them as well.
Location was usually by the quarterdeck when officials came aboard or departed, the ship’ Commanding Officers wished to leave an impression on visiting dignitaries.
Wood selection: The preferred wood of choice was Teak. This wood is renowned for both its beauty and it's resistance to rot.
The last US Navy ship to have external wood on deck (not counting the live oak used in the US Constitution) was the Nuclear Powered Guided Missile Cruiser USS Long Beach (CGN-9), which was so adorned until her decommissioning circa mid 1990′s.
There will alway be that one officer who wishes to impress their superiors and have a section of wood decking of limited size installed in different locations (Ahem, USS Nimitz late 1990s) but per Naval Directives and the General Specification for Overhaul and Repair (GENSPECS) clearly outlaw this practice.