Wood it's characteristics and use in model building

[Alan Smith]

A little more on obeche. It doesn't have a strong grain pattern (good) has a nice pale yellow/cream colour with a very few pale grey markings and research shows that it glues very well. The most similar woods I have come across are Jelutong (rubber tree) and Basswood/Linden but I think the Obeche is a little harder than Jelutong and a lot harder than Basswood.. I think that for many things - keels. beams and framing etc it might well be an ideal compromise.

 

[Alan Smith]

People couldn't understand that apart from colour variations the underlying timber would eventually mature and darken with or without light or direct sunlight.

I used to make a lot of cherry veneered office furniture and found European Cherry to be particularly prone to darkening when exposed to light - the speed of the darkening depended on how much. 1 month in a sunny office might produce a pale patch where a monitor or a stack of files stood for example. In the end I had some fancy swing-tickets printed telling people that this was natural and would always happen and put one on every piece we shipped. That did the trick -pretty much an end of the complaints.

 

[ConsNZ]

I used to make a lot of cherry veneered office furniture and found European Cherry to be particularly prone to darkening when exposed to light - the speed of the darkening depended on how much. 1 month in a sunny office might produce a pale patch where a monitor or a stack of files stood for example. In the end I had some fancy swing-tickets printed telling people that this was natural and would always happen and put one on every piece we shipped. That did the trick -pretty much an end of the complaints.

Excellent idea putting labels on all shipped items and even better that they proved fit for purpose. I had marketing print similar but more general statements regarding fading/darkening of timbers/veneers on our colour cards as they were updated. But as is common knowledge, 'No one reads instructions or cautions" until after the fact. One time a new sales mgr of a large furniture company complaint that once our stain was applied to solid mahogany or veneered table tops the stain caused the substrate to dramatically alter colour when viewed from different angles/directions or lightings. In his opinion there should never have been stain colour changes whatsoever and the over-all effect had to remain uniform regardless of which direction it was viewed from. Hmmm.....I suggested we gifted to him solid colour paint for his furniture to remedy his concerns. In writing he called for my instant dismissal.. LOL (one in every crown)

 

[Roger Pellett]

I’m an experienced wood user, not a wood scientist so this post reflects my experience only.

I usually build painted carved hull models. I do have two planks of real boxwood and enjoy using it where unpainted parts are appropriate; thwarts and floorboards in an otherwise painted longboat. It is also great for carving oars.

On overlooked but useful wood for my purpose is (real) pine purchased from our local Menards store. I also have a supply of Basswood but prefer Pine. Pine was also the wood used by professional model builders to build the models for towing in the University of Michigan’s towing tank.

“Pine” stocked by lumberyards and home improvement stores is sold as SPF- Spruce, Pine, Fir. It is, therefore, important to be able to identify these three species in a lumber pile. Spruce is the lightest (by weight), and has at least to me an objectionable odor. Pine has a light color, is harder and heavier in weight. Fir, seems to have more color and a more distinct grain. For ship modeling I only use Pine.

I have recently bought Pine from Menards’ Bargain Bin. It appears that they will get select very wide (1x10 and 1x12) grade boards with a defect like a knot or crack near one end. Instead of downgrading the entire plank they will saw off the 2 ft with the defect, selling the shortened plank as select grade with the sawed off piece in the Bargain Bin. In addition to a reasonable price, defects often appear in the center of the piece so after cutting out the defective center I am left with two nice pieces.

POB scratch builders might find Pine for making Harold Hahn type frames to be superior to true bulkheads sawed from plywood.

Roger

 

[Peter Gutterman]

There are lots of different kinds of pine (yellow, or southern, use traditionally to make tongue and grooved flooring in 19thc. southern homes, ages very hard and durable), resinous with a distinct hard-soft pattern when flat cut. Does not sand or carve evenly; Clear White Pine, free of knots, tight grain when quarter sawn, no hard-soft pattern issue, carves and sands evenly. Still deceptively resinous and will gum up sandpaper, rasps, files and saw teeth, an issue which requires attention when working this wood. There is also "sugar pine" more yellow in color, lighter weight and workable. The real id. for this variety I don't know. The old Model Shipways solid hull kits used the latter, very pleasantly sweet smelling, close grained and workable. I still have an old yellow cover box that retains the aroma to this day after seventy years.

 

[Roger Pellett]

I personally don’t need to buy any and I don’t represent the company. Woodcraft Supply is currently offering Osage Orange lumber. From it’s written description, It appears that it could be a substitute for those looking for an alternative to Boxwood. I have never used any of this wood. Just a heads up for any one wishing to pursue things further.

Roger

 

[Peter Gutterman]

I've Used Osage Orange for carving before. It is a beautiful dense, smooth, very hard wood with a beautiful reddish-brown color that darkens and becomes very rich over time. Darker than cherry and deeper in tone as it ages.

 

[Namabiiru]

Wondering if anyone has ever noticed any observable effects of seasonal humidity on completed builds since we get pretty serious summer humidity here in Tokyo. I would think that lumber dimensions are pretty small, so changes would be proportionately small, but on the other hand tolerances are pretty tight so glue joint might tend to work themselves loose over time.

Anyone ever experienced anything like that?

 

[Daniel20]

Wondering if anyone has ever noticed any observable effects of seasonal humidity on completed builds since we get pretty serious summer humidity here in Tokyo. I would think that lumber dimensions are pretty small, so changes would be proportionately small, but on the other hand tolerances are pretty tight so glue joint might tend to work themselves loose over time.

Anyone ever experienced anything like that?

Thats an interesting question, I have heard others talk about this but never noticed any effect humidity might have on wood or rigging for that matter, on any of my ships or planes (my Wright Flyer which is wood and rigged). The humidity inside my house stays fairly constant through the year, maybe a little drier in the short winters here in Houston Texas, natural gas heating does suck the moisture out of the air.

 

[Y.T.]

Solid hulls may develop cracks due to seasonal humidity changes. I believe framed hulls would be not affected.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Wondering if anyone has ever noticed any observable effects of seasonal humidity on completed builds since we get pretty serious summer humidity here in Tokyo. I would think that lumber dimensions are pretty small, so changes would be proportionately small, but on the other hand tolerances are pretty tight so glue joint might tend to work themselves loose over time.

Anyone ever experienced anything like that?

Having been to Yokohama, I can say that the amount of moisture in the air does not change very much. Because I live right in the center of a large continent, in Minnesota, Summers here are very humid and Winters are arctic dry. I grew up repair wooden colonial furniture in our house, which has lots of peg joints, especially the chairs. The difference seasons will cause wood to shrink and swell as much as 10% and this causes all the peg joints to break no matter how well you glue them or what glue you use. Such furniture belongs on the east coast near the ocean, not in the midwest. Traditional Japanese wood joinery is superior since it uses lots of dovetail and other, similar joints in wood.

 

[Norgale]

I live in Florida on the Gulf coast side and humidity is a problem with sail boat rigging. (Models) I have not noticed any changes in wooden hulls but the rigging will sag when it's muggy and tighten back up when it's dry. There doesn't seem to be anything I can do that will prevent the sag but turning the AC down a few notches will dry the house out and the rigging returns to normal. DO NOT try to tighten the rigging when it sags. It will pull the spars all around when it drys. If the humidity is high then turn on the AC is all you can do. Norgale

 

[Roger Pellett]

I have eleven ship models in my collection Two are plank on frame (not POB). The rest are solid hull. Four of my solid hull models are open boats carved on both the inside and outside, so not truly solid hull. Two solid hull models I inherited from my father and are 80-85 years old. The models built by me, are from less than 10 to 60 years old.

All of these models have spent their lives in an American Midwestern climate as described by Kurt above except that summers are tempered by living close to the huge body of Lake Superior.

With one exception, I see no damage due to changes to household environment.

The exception is a model of the Civil Monitor USS Catskill. This was built by erecting bulkheads, filling the spaces between with pine blocks, and carving the result. There are some tiny cracks between bulkheads and blocks. If I live long enough, I intend to replace the hull of this model with a true solid hull.

Roger

 

[Y.T.]

the rigging will sag when it's muggy and tighten back up when it's dry.

I recommend using only polyester ropes. They don’t react to humidity and look much nicer on the model. IMHO.

 

[Peter Gutterman]

I have eleven ship models in my collection Two are plank on frame (not POB). The rest are solid hull. Four of my solid hull models are open boats carved on both the inside and outside, so not truly solid hull. Two solid hull models I inherited from my father and are 80-85 years old. The models built by me, are from less than 10 to 60 years old.

All of these models have spent their lives in an American Midwestern climate as described by Kurt above except that summers are tempered by living close to the huge body of Lake Superior.

With one exception, I see no damage due to changes to household environment.

The exception is a model of the Civil Monitor USS Catskill. This was built by erecting bulkheads, filling the spaces between with pine blocks, and carving the result. There are some tiny cracks between bulkheads and blocks. If I live long enough, I intend to replace the hull of this model with a true solid hull.

Roger

Send pics.

 

[Philski]

Wondering if anyone has ever noticed any observable effects of seasonal humidity on completed builds since we get pretty serious summer humidity here in Tokyo. I would think that lumber dimensions are pretty small, so changes would be proportionately small, but on the other hand tolerances are pretty tight so glue joint might tend to work themselves loose over time.

Anyone ever experienced anything like that?

Haven't really noticed it in my models. Our climate here in southern Idaho has relatively low humidity but fall and winter is a different story. Even the doors in our house get pretty tight in their closures. But I think your observation on the proportionality of the wood is best. Very small noticeable swelling. I will say, for the years I lived near Fukuoka, the humidity there was always high.

 

[paul ron]

Wondering if anyone has ever noticed any observable effects of seasonal humidity on completed builds since we get pretty serious summer humidity here in Tokyo. I would think that lumber dimensions are pretty small, so changes would be proportionately small, but on the other hand tolerances are pretty tight so glue joint might tend to work themselves loose over time.

Anyone ever experienced anything like that?

all my wood pof shows seasonal effects. wood expands n contracts with relative humidity; rigging sags as well. i can predict the weather by my ships.

 

[Namabiiru]

all my wood pof shows seasonal effects. wood expands n contracts with relative humidity; rigging sags as well. i can predict the weather by my ships.

But you haven’t had any joints fail or parts split?

 

[paul ron]

But you haven’t had any joints fail or parts split?

no joint failures in the 50 years my ships have spent on shelves. my righing is getting a bit delicate though.... i just try not to toutch them anymore. i plan to redo the righing someday but ive got to finish my clipper first.

btw all my ships are glued with yellow carpenter glue.