AKERBOOM 1681 after Ab Hoving nominally 1/66 but drawings in 1/64

[Iterum]

Happy Birthday, Chris!

Thank you Marc, your SR is the toplevel I can aim for in detailling.

 

[Iterum]

Now I figured out what we are dealing with:


25,7393636 × 11= 283,133mm

and with this knowledge and the complete Zeter:


I now do left my own boring birthday party and do storm towards my work brench ;-)

 

[Uwek]

Hello my dear friends,

it all started by the finding of my old modelbuilding books of Hoeckl, Winter, &Co.
View attachment 428693

and the question if these are a reasonable choice and reliable source of plans'/lines' information to build a Dutch Golden Age's man-o-war and this was denied. @Ab Hoving was very kind to me to sent me the plans for his shipmodel made from card:
View attachment 428659
Here the
Link to Ab's model built in 1/77

View attachment 428657
This drawing by Willem Van de Velde showing the 60-gun ship of the III.rank named AKERBOOM (Oak Tree) from her port back side - and the beathtaking beauty of a model he created:

View attachment 428656
I do have to admit I will not start with a fully rigged model
as dramatic and temptational it may be to me:
View attachment 428655
...so I will have to strip the hull from guns and masts. But I will win a less complex model to build...*
So I want to go to the copy shop to print out the plans (allready scaled to 1/66 thanks a lot) and study them fully. Ab motivated me to ask questions and so I will do this and do invite all of you to join my journey in here into the terra incognita of historical Dutch shipbuilding. And so I will have to pimp up my libary by some books about the Dutch Golden Age - but what books are absolutely these relevant ones?

But back to what I did figured out:
I figured out some information from the three deckers website:

View attachment 428668
View attachment 428669View attachment 428670

The original source of the transom and quarter gallery does given a plenty or details to us - and so I will have to pick them out "clearing" them and
View attachment 428686
do bring them into the right style** and realising them in card, paper, wood (really?) or some kind of putty:View attachment 428672

...and by the clearing to figure out what this may below this gunport? (Is it just fun in a roll of toilettpaper flying in the wind or a honotable carved element?)
View attachment 428673
The Oak Tree is a dominant feature on the transom and my question is certainly If it is a carved structure or was it a plane canvas painted as a threedimensional masterpice?
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Here a hastely made cut out
that doesn't given a plenty of help to decided between both:
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But let's start with the uncladded hull and the location of the gunports, as these are most important - here Ab's Delftship's creation:
View attachment 428658

So my starting point is set and I do have to go to the copyshop to get my prints out of the xerox.
So if anybody has any idea I do invite you very much to ask, show, invent, criticism.

The first set is to created the hull, the wales, the gunports (drawing the outlines at first?) and to paint the hole in a wooden style - by showing the specialy linked joints of the planks (after Mondfeld Shipbuilding in the XXVII.Century). So there is a plenty to do and I do hopefully not forget to let you guys look over my ideas before ruining my build by glueing it onto the than wreck.

Thank you very much...
______
**View attachment 428685

*and my returning saison of black moods does hopefully not do kick in and end her - or me being in hospital again.

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Hallo @Iterum
we wish you all the BEST and a HAPPY BIRTHDAY

 

[Iterum]

Short question between two self made scratch fried burgers: Where is to find the Dutch word for "wale"? Berghout = Bergholz? "First" says to me from top down to CWL or Australians' way by from the keel upwards to CWL and so on?

And the planks' length is 8.000mm or 125mm in scale - but what is it's old Dutch name, breadth, and thickness?
I figured out 25,73 × 2 ("Verdeksdelen 2 duim") doesn't sound right to me by 51,46mm for the hull's outside planking.


Now back to buffett

 

[Steef66]

but what is it's old Dutch name, breadth, and thickness

Breed and dik

 

[shota70]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY Iterum

 

[Ab Hoving]

In case you want to work with the shipbuilding formulae we learn from literature, here is a list coming from the books by Witsen and Van IJk. Mind you these are no laws! They are just indications and the shipwright can decide differently. Still, knowledge like this can be most useful in practice.

 

[Frank48]

In case you want to work with the shipbuilding formulae we learn from literature, here is a list coming from the books by Witsen and Van IJk. Mind you these are no laws! They are just indications and the shipwright can decide differently. Still, knowledge like this can be most useful in practice.

Hi Ab , Thank you for what you do for modeling.Frank

 

[Ab Hoving]

It's my pleasure Frank, don't mention it.

 

[Ab Hoving]

Short question between two self made scratch fried burgers: Where is to find the Dutch word for "wale"? Berghout = Bergholz? "First" says to me from top down to CWL or Australians' way by from the keel upwards to CWL and so on?

The lowermost wales are mentioned first (line 38). In fact the following order of the items mentioned in the contract practically follow the following order of the build itself. For the following order of the build see https://witsenscheepsbouw.nl.

 

[Iterum]

Thanks a lot, Ab, now I take out my cutter knife and to start to cut out these formers:

We will meet on the other side...

...and in between a little bit of Dutch detail finding for the deeply interested colleauge:

 

[Iterum]

Hello it started...


...and this her sister GIDEON 1664:


With a plenty of very helpfull details all over the hull very well visiable - also the detailing of the handrails over the bulkheads are shown.

The first nine formers are marked 0-VIII from aft, tomorrow the front N° IX-XVII are to be made. Then they are to be cut out for the next steps of adding the wales, planks, and everything visible.

 

[Uwek]

...and in between a little bit of Dutch detail finding for the deeply interested colleauge:
View attachment 430834

once we had already a discussion about these "mobs"

Van de Velde exhibition Scheepvaartmuseum Amsterdam

Here you have a Lely painting of another Dutch admiral, Cornelis Tromp. And again the ship was painted by Van de Velde. Now the real big master pieces, these are huge. My personal favorite de Gouden Leeuw op het IJ te Amsterdam. On the right you see the building where now a days the...

shipsofscale.com

Maybe (sorry that I highjack now your topic) knows @Ab Hoving knows more or exact what these are? I think for the "ease", but ......

 

[Ab Hoving]

I don't know much more than you do, but for me it is not a strange thought that the mobs with which the inside of the ship is cleaned are hung outside to dry. Cleaning the outside of the ship would not have a high priority for me.
But who am I?

 

[Steef66]

Back in my younger days I had a saltwater tank with tropical fish. On thing that happens was salt on al parts above the water. This white layer appeared everywhere and I had to clean it every month. Could make sence that this was done to these ships too. Cleaning the ornaments of the salt drying up like a white layer. But who am I too, just guess.
On the top there is also a little box, hanging there.

 

[Iterum]

THE SPINE QUESTION

For the detailling I copied her sister ship GIDEON and inverted the colours, so I did get some idea about the fine luxourious decorations:

I am recently on my trip towards a hull construction that does work in my scale and I do think I will have -like Ab's model in the picture- have to add the gallion to the spine:

So I looked for possible prototypes and try to lend something from the DER HOLLÄNDISCHE ZWEIDECKER. Or are there better advises from your expirience?
Thanks a lot.

 

[Ab Hoving]

You can certainly use the Hohenzollern drawings for your beakhead.
Personally I add it in a later stage nowadays, since I once dropped a model, which landed on its beakhead of course and it was fatally damaged.

 

[Iterum]

You can certainly use the Hohenzollern drawings for your beakhead.
Personally I add it in a later stage nowadays, since I once dropped a model, which landed on its beakhead of course and it was fatally damaged.

Yes Ab, that is something I do understand very well! I do also think about the stability of several parts recently. I do think about the wight of the putto made from modelling clay, the question how to hang the side galeries to prolonged deck beams so the do not slither down the hull's side over the time.


And certainly how to pin the filigran/fragile structure of the gallion to the hull in a way it does stuck well.

But as there is no rigging towing on parts so there is no need for extra strenght on a hull model?

_______________
Due to my bad eyesight I had to break with my hands' inside before meeting the street's surface with my face so I am very slow in progress the next days...

 

[Ab Hoving]

Sad to hear about your problems staying straight up. Cherish your hands, they are your most important tool...apart from your head.

You will see (much later) that once you started adding more and more parts to your beakhead, the whole contraption becomes remarkably rigid (just like the whole hull). You will be surprised to see the forces paper can stand.

But first you will have different worries: constructing a fair hull without dents and bumps....
Did you ever work with paper before?

 

[Iterum]

Sad to hear about your problems staying straight up. Cherish your hands, they are your most important tool...apart from your head.

You will see (much later) that once you started adding more and more parts to your beakhead, the whole contraption becomes remarkably rigid (just like the whole hull). You will be surprised to see the forces paper can stand.

But first you will have different worries: constructing a fair hull without dents and bumps....
Did you ever work with paper before?

Thanks Ab! '...apart from your head." Oh yes too true because than I would suffer from Morbus Robespierre

Yes I did work with paper - on small card model ships 1/250 and for ships (Predreadnoughts) for naval tabletop in 1/750. I even used paper in 1/35 on plasticmodels and I am used to stiffen it by adding very cheap superglue by this the paper can get sanded at the very end. So I am a bit in this topic but a greenhorn in scratch building.

Today I just dealt with the hull side drawing copied on frostpaper to testfit:


So I could look after the decks in both Views at the very same time:


Pulling the frostpaper over the drawing shows clearly the graphical correctness of all lines to me.


This IS nothing against your drawings, dear Ab. But my expirience to the shrinking of paper in the xerox machine when I made copies. So this was all I could do today sadly.

Recently I am looking in to the fore drawings of WvdV and do look for a solution to the Breakhead Bulkhead there are several solutions smaller ships with a pair of doors,


big ships with only a single door,

or medium sized ships with doors and gunports:


But I excluded this beauty as she looks too old (due to the lang gallion) and too English (die to the BrBu's decor and the round turret on the QG)...
...am I right?

This is Ab's solution two doors and outside two gunports...


...but why you did chose this solution - the knispeldrawing shows nothing like this:


So my question stayed afloat: Hmmm, what of them is right for the Amsterdam's yard of 1660-1670 for a 60-gun ship?

Any suggestions?