Cad design Alfred stern cad designing

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The hardcore ship modelling community (us) if given a choice would probably buy an Alfred kit any day of the week, but as Jim said, manufacturers are a business and they need to get sales out the door and what better product than the the most universally known, wooden ship that still exists.
Thank goodness for Chinese manufacturers that do not have the historical and cultural ties to any significant western ship and hence can provide us with a good variety of ship kits.
 
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The hardcore ship modelling community (us) if given a choice would probably buy an Alfred kit any day of the week, but as Jim said, manufacturers are a business and they need to get sales out the door and what better product than the the most universally known, wooden ship that still exists.
Thank goodness for Chinese manufacturers that do not have the historical and cultural ties to any significant western ship and hence can provide us with a good variety of ship kits.
Are we talking full kits?
To me, I have little interest in midship section kits but would love to start a stern section model. So much more interesting.
Would make a lovely little collection if more were available.
 

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

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this project was started as nothing more that an exercise in learning CAD applied to 3D modeling. However it does bring up the possibility of stern section kits and i have actually started the drawings of the 120 gun Pennsylvania which had a rounded stern.

The hardcore ship modelling community (us) if given a choice would probably buy an Alfred kit any day of the week, but as Jim said, manufacturers are a business and they need to get sales out the door and what better product than the the most universally known, wooden ship that still exists.
Thank goodness for Chinese manufacturers that do not have the historical and cultural ties to any significant western ship and hence can provide us with a good variety of ship kits.


i think we see the same kits and subjects over and over because manufactures copy one another because it is safe, rather than take a risk on something new.
So yes business is about making money. Talk about Chinese Manufactures copying kits that is exactly what "everyone does". Just look at how many Victory kits are on the market, i do not think each and every one is an original design.

It is tough to disagree, Mon Amie from a model-maker perspective! However, from a kit manufacturer...I don't think so. How many people have heard about Alfred ship versus Victory ship? If you would be a manufacturer, would you spend thousands of dollars for design\manufacture and don't have revenues from sales?

I would assume and hope that Dave might turn this into a kit one day, Jim.

Then...it most likely will be a limited edition and such, pretty expensive.


much of the up front cost goes to the CAD designer that job goes for big bucks per hour, and it takes a LOT! of hours. It is much cheaper to "redesign" a victory kit that is already on the market and call it your design. A fine example of this is the Druid kit by Unicorn Models it is based on the Hahn model but a different design approach, thus not a copy but a version of the Druid. Some CAD guy spent a lot of time breaking down the framing and laying out all the parts for laser cutting.
Another thing to consider is a any manufacture producing a kit based on plans from a museum requires commercial licensing making "original" subjects a bit expensive as royalties must be paid.

No i can not turn this into a kit because i do not have the capabilities to CNC carve the figures nor do i have a 3D printer with a high resolution. If this ends up as a kit it would be done by a co op of businesses or sell the CAD and STL files to someone who can produce a kit.

as for cost? for a price anything can be done.
a smart businessman will look at a product and find a way to manufacture it so it falls in line with the market it will be sold in. As an example it is just bad planning to sell a hull kit for $700.00 when you can buy a complete kit for $450.00. or pay $400.00 for a kit and another $350.00 for a set of stern carvings.
It is one thing to produce 1 prototype it is an entire different game to mass produce the product.. so far this is proof of concept it can be done but can it be done at an acceptable retail cost? that has to be seen.
bottom line yes you may see stern kits of the Alfred and the Pennsylvania and other ships.
 

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

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...we are talking in general, there is a number of possibilities. Ships CAD design become a hobby itself, we can almost make a completions between the CAD designers.

I agree the CAD designing and drawing along with 3d modeling is indeed a hobby in itself. This is why you see few model ship builders starting from scratch not only do you need to know CAD but you also have to have an understanding of design and how ships are built. Then there is the discipline of actually drawing something that can be passed on to the fabricator or to the builder or to someone who can read the information in a drawing. Mechanical drawing is a type of technical drawing that passes on information.

Drawing the bow of a hull with all the curves, bevel lines, frame shapes, knighthead timbers inside and outside faces of the hull is difficult to draw. In some cases i will take the basic drawings and create a mockup then from the mockup i will take measurements and "draw" the shapes. In doing this you have to see in your head a 3D object and convert it into a 2D drawing so someone else can take that drawing and recreate the object back into a 3d object.

tb1.jpgtb2.jpgtb3.jpgtb4.jpgtb5.jpgtb6.jpg
 

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

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that bow section you see as an object i see as this and there are 14 columns of numbers
0,0 0, 310 0, 620 0, 930
A .183 .122 .100
B ..261 .190 .123
C .275 .250 .258
D .275 .241 .251
E . .212 .190 .221
F .161 .1.43 . 183
 

Jimsky

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This is why you see few model ship builders starting from scratch not only do you need to know CAD but you also have to have an understanding of design and how ships are built.
Completely disagree with you, Dave. A great example will be contemporary models, built without CAD design, and\or for the most part all the fancy power tools we have at our disposal today. To scratch build, you must have the skills to fabricate parts by yourself, you must understand the drafts (not necessarily CAD).
Yes, CAD is a great help and if know how to use it, it simplifies to understand the drafts but... understanding and using the CAD, doesn't guarantee you can make the parts, where is if you have the skills to process various materials you can build a scratch model.
 

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

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Completely disagree with you, Dave. A great example will be contemporary models, built without CAD design, and\or for the most part all the fancy power tools we have at our disposal today. To scratch build, you must have the skills to fabricate parts by yourself, you must understand the drafts (not necessarily CAD).
Yes, CAD is a great help and if know how to use it, it simplifies to understand the drafts but... understanding and using the CAD, doesn't guarantee you can make the parts, where is if you have the skills to process various materials you can build a scratch model.


actually i agree with your disagree in some cases i built the model first by hand and draw the plans from the model. Not uncommon when you see the line on admiralty plans "as built" same idea. But it does not matter if the plans are drawn by hand or by computer you still need "plans" so someone with mechanical drawing skills drew the plans.

by hand your right there is no guarantee you can produce the part BUT in CAD it is guaranteed the parts will be as drawn because the machine can read your drawing it is all numbers that is what CNC stands for.

i think CAD design and drawing has little use to the average model builder it is more for reproduction of parts like for kits rather than for a one off piece.
 
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HEDLY, I AGREE WITH YOU TOTALLY ABOUT MID SHIP X SECTIONS, AND STERN OR EVEN BOW X SECTIONS ONE OF MY DREAM PROJECTS IS TO HAVE STERN X SECTINS COMPARING FRENCH, ENGLISH, DUTCH, AMERICIAN SECTIONS IN DECENT SCALE SHOWING THE DIFFERENT METHODS OF CONSTRUCTIO COMPARIN SAME ERA AND TYPE WOULD BE SO INTERESTING. GOD BLESS STAY SAFE ALL DON
 

Jimsky

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actually i agree with your disagree in some cases i built the model first by hand and draw the plans from the model. Not uncommon when you see the line on admiralty plans "as built" same idea. But it does not matter if the plans are drawn by hand or by computer you still need "plans" so someone with mechanical drawing skills drew the plans.

by hand your right there is no guarantee you can produce the part BUT in CAD it is guaranteed the parts will be as drawn because the machine can read your drawing it is all numbers that is what CNC stands for.

i think CAD design and drawing has little use to the average model builder it is more for reproduction of parts like for kits rather than for a one off piece.
I am glad we came to a consensus (fancy word for an agreement). What I am trying to say...simply is: In order to build a model from scratch, you don't have to have to design the plans at all (draft manually, or using sophisticated software such as CAD). You will buy the prepared plans found in publications such as ANCRE and\or Seawatch Publisher. For the most part, this will absolutely sufficient to build a model, and this will be considered as 'scratch'.

But...there are no questions, that knowing the CAD (or other drafting software) will dramatically help to understand the plans, and also, if you have a CNC or laser cut machines you can loft the frame parts to a precision state and make fabrication part a whole lot easier... the real question is: How many of us can afford the good quality CNC or Laser cut machines???
 

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

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But...there are no questions, that knowing the CAD (or other drafting software) will dramatically help to understand the plans, and also, if you have a CNC or laser cut machines you can loft the frame parts to a precision state and make fabrication part a whole lot easier... the real question is: How many of us can afford the good quality CNC or Laser cut machines???

really!! have you ever looked into the yearly cost to subscribe to professional CAD software? let alone the investment of the machines. Sheesh no wonder it is so expensive to hire CAD people.


I am glad we came to a consensus (fancy word for an agreement). What I am trying to say...simply is: In order to build a model from scratch, you don't have to have to design the plans at all (draft manually, or using sophisticated software such as CAD). You will buy the prepared plans found in publications such as ANCRE and\or Seawatch Publisher. For the most part, this will absolutely sufficient to build a model.

totally agree these guys who want to learn CAD design so the can build better models is not true you do not need it. But if 3D modeling is a side interest that is another story or hobby
 

Jimsky

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really!! have you ever looked into the yearly cost to subscribe to professional CAD software? let alone the investment of the machines. Sheesh no wonder it is so expensive to hire CAD people.
There is free tier CAD software, just enough to learn and familiarize yourself.

Your answer is a prove to the original post where members hoping that you can make Alfred (or other ship) as a kit.
 
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FREE IS SOMETIMES NO GOOD, DAVE IS 100% CORRECT, THERE IS TECH OUT THERE TRY TO SEE WHAT IS ACOMPLISHED BY USING THE FREE ONES COMPARING TO THE EXPENSIVE ONES CHECK KRIS, HIS MACHINE IS NOT, NOT CHEAP AND NEITHER IS THE CORECT SOFTWARE ONLY THE COMBINATION OF HIGH TECH AND THE KNOWLEDGE OF HOW TO MAKE IT WORK, ONE WITOUT THE OTHER IS A NO, NO. GOD BLESS STAY SAFE DON
 
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HEDLY, I AGREE WITH YOU TOTALLY ABOUT MID SHIP X SECTIONS, AND STERN OR EVEN BOW X SECTIONS ONE OF MY DREAM PROJECTS IS TO HAVE STERN X SECTINS COMPARING FRENCH, ENGLISH, DUTCH, AMERICIAN SECTIONS IN DECENT SCALE SHOWING THE DIFFERENT METHODS OF CONSTRUCTIO COMPARIN SAME ERA AND TYPE WOULD BE SO INTERESTING. GOD BLESS STAY SAFE ALL DON
AH! Don, Now you've got it. Just imagine three or four mounted, in say, a shadow box and hung on the wall- great stuff.
 
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