Batavia 1628 (1:72) Kolderstok Build log

[Papatotalos]

Pappa
I just hung the lines weighted as you suggested. I did straighten the lines like I have been doing and they looked pretty good.
I then added a small weight and was amazed at how much more the lines continued to spin.
I will leave them hang for a few days before using them but I am sure this will work.

Now as I look back at the previous lines I worked with they always had a slight desire to twist. It was small but noticeable.

Thank you so much.

By the way, I am a big fan of Dutch East India Ships. I have visited the Batavia werks, the Rijksmuseum and the Dutch Maritime Museum.

I hope it will work out for you.
I have seen the Batavia in Lelystad from a distance.
I hope to see your Batavia model here on SOS.

 

[iutar]

Dear Clemens! You need to paint the deadeye lanyards black. The lanyards, like the shrouds and deadeyes, were completely coated in grease.

 

[Papatotalos]

Dear Clemens! You need to paint the deadeye lanyards black. The lanyards, like the shrouds and deadeyes, were completely coated in grease.

View attachment 606980

View attachment 606981View attachment 606982View attachment 606983View attachment 606984

Hi Igor,
Thanks for your input.
I have almost the same images as you show. And on the Batavia replica are more things build on that where not on the original in that time.
I'm not make a copy of the replica Batavia.
A kit is not always authentic.
I use the brown rope and the beige as contrast. Instead of the black on your images.
So for me I keep it this way. A kind of freestyle.

 

[Steef66]

Igor is right about that; the halyards, just like the shrouds, were tarred. The reason was to make them resistant to salt water. But tar was also used during tensioning to ensure that the rope slid through the eyes a little more smoothly. As a lubricant, in other words. So that more tension could be applied. Afterward, they were tarred in their entirety. In fact, all ropes that came near the waterline were tarred, including the tacks and sheets, for example. However, a thinner mixture of tar was used, unlike with the shrouds or stays, which sometimes literally looked as if they were covered in a thick layer of tar.

But I get your point about contrast; this sometimes looks better on a model.

 

[Papatotalos]

Igor is right about that; the halyards, just like the shrouds, were tarred. The reason was to make them resistant to salt water. But tar was also used during tensioning to ensure that the rope slid through the eyes a little more smoothly. As a lubricant, in other words. So that more tension could be applied. Afterward, they were tarred in their entirety. In fact, all ropes that came near the waterline were tarred, including the tacks and sheets, for example. However, a thinner mixture of tar was used, unlike with the shrouds or stays, which sometimes literally looked as if they were covered in a thick layer of tar.

But I get your point about contrast; this sometimes looks better on a model.

Hi Steef and Igor,
For the Batavia it will stay as it is.
But,... for models in the future I will add more authentication to it.
This Batavia will stand in my office, not a museum.
Thanks for your input both of you.

 

[iutar]

It's a shame they made this decision. There's no contrast or beauty here. On the contrary, it looks unnatural and terrible. It's like a "rookie mistake." White ropes installed where they never were, defying common sense—it's wrong. At least change the model name from "Batavia" to "Raving Mad," so as not to disgrace world shipbuilding. Sorry, friend, but someone needs to tell you the truth. You're Greek, after all; the first ships were built in your homeland. Why you dislike sailors and ships so much, why you ruined their rigging—I don't understand. Don't be offended. People here only love praise. But there are no rises without falls. Someone has to criticize you for your shoddy work, otherwise you'll be shoddy for the rest of your life.
(This message does not require a response.)

 

[Maarten]

It's a shame they made this decision. There's no contrast or beauty here. On the contrary, it looks unnatural and terrible. It's like a "rookie mistake." White ropes installed where they never were, defying common sense—it's wrong. At least change the model name from "Batavia" to "Raving Mad," so as not to disgrace world shipbuilding. Sorry, friend, but someone needs to tell you the truth. You're Greek, after all; the first ships were built in your homeland. Why you dislike sailors and ships so much, why you ruined their rigging—I don't understand. Don't be offended. People here only love praise. But there are no rises without falls. Someone has to criticize you for your shoddy work, otherwise you'll be shoddy for the rest of your life.
(This message does not require a response.)

Although you didn't ask for a response I will respond. Please behave normally, everybody is just performing his hobby here and can build his model to his own ideas. Please have some respect for somebody else his work.

 

[Jimsky]

It's a shame they made this decision. There's no contrast or beauty here. On the contrary, it looks unnatural and terrible. It's like a "rookie mistake." White ropes installed where they never were, defying common sense—it's wrong. At least change the model name from "Batavia" to "Raving Mad," so as not to disgrace world shipbuilding. Sorry, friend, but someone needs to tell you the truth. You're Greek, after all; the first ships were built in your homeland. Why you dislike sailors and ships so much, why you ruined their rigging—I don't understand. Don't be offended. People here only love praise. But there are no rises without falls. Someone has to criticize you for your shoddy work, otherwise you'll be shoddy for the rest of your life.
(This message does not require a response.)

I agree with the above post from our colleague, Maarten.

Constructive criticism is always welcome here, but personal insults and ridicule are not. People build models for different reasons and in different styles, and nobody on this forum should feel ashamed of building the way they want to build.
You may not agree with the choice of rigging color (although you are not 100% right), and that is perfectly fine. But calling someone’s work “terrible,” “shoddy,” or suggesting they “disgrace world shipbuilding” crosses the line from critique into disrespect.
This community exists to encourage learning, sharing, and enjoyment of the hobby, whether someone builds strictly historical, artistic, or simply for personal satisfaction. There is room for all of it here. And for the record, we are not ashamed of our work or our choices. We build because we enjoy it.

 

[Ronald61]

I hope it will work out for you.
I have seen the Batavia in Lelystad from a distance.
I hope to see your Batavia model here on SOS.

Clemens, I have seen her a few times in real life (I'm a Dutchman). Beautiful ship! Your build does right to her and is very good to see. Keep on the good work!!!

@Igor; it's a hobby, not a war. Lighten up

 

[Papatotalos]

It's a shame they made this decision. There's no contrast or beauty here. On the contrary, it looks unnatural and terrible. It's like a "rookie mistake." White ropes installed where they never were, defying common sense—it's wrong. At least change the model name from "Batavia" to "Raving Mad," so as not to disgrace world shipbuilding. Sorry, friend, but someone needs to tell you the truth. You're Greek, after all; the first ships were built in your homeland. Why you dislike sailors and ships so much, why you ruined their rigging—I don't understand. Don't be offended. People here only love praise. But there are no rises without falls. Someone has to criticize you for your shoddy work, otherwise you'll be shoddy for the rest of your life.
(This message does not require a response.)

Hi Igor, iutar or what your name is.
I See that you only give comments on SOS but I can not find anything from you as a build.
You know nothing about me. I live in Greece, but I'm not Greek. So don't read me a lesson about Greek culture.
If you want going to insult me, please do. I'm old enough to let it go pass by.
I did not see any rigging of you on SOS.
So please let me or other members do our hobby as we like it.
And please, I ask you friendly, keep out of my thread of you only have negative comments.

 

[Johnnymike]

I am not a Dutchman but I am an old sailor.
I have tremendous respect for the VOC and the history it made.
I am not a scholar either but have amassed a sizable library, studied and visited ship building
exhibits from this time. I have visited the Batavia werks studied ships in the Rijksmuseum and Maritime Museum.

I am building the Batavia for my enjoyment and out of respect for the people
who took the task to build and journeyed on it.
This is what is important to me and should be to all of us.

Clemens, again thank you for your help and please continue to contribute.
I find your build of the Batavia very good of high quality and continue to refer to it.

 

[Jimsky]

You can kick me out. But if even one person on this forum heeds my advice and never makes such stupid mistakes on 17th-century Dutch ship models again, then my time here hasn't been in vain. Yes, sometimes you have to use strong and sharp words if you don't understand.
You didn't serve in the navy; you don't understand that any liberties or poor workmanship can cost the lives of hundreds of people. So there's no time for pleasantries.

As for the Batavia, a modeler has hundreds of times more available information than anyone else. Ignoring this is sacrilege to the Batavia. Change the name, let it be whatever you fancy, but never tell anyone it's "a model of that very Batavia." It's some kind of sculpture.

*although dyeing the threads would have been faster than typing those letters.

View attachment 607316

You are entitled to your opinion about historical accuracy. What you are not entitled to do is insult members, belittle their work, or present your personal standards as the only acceptable way to enjoy this hobby.

This is a model ship forum, not a naval dockyard. Nobody’s life is at risk because a builder chose a different rope color, artistic interpretation, or level of historical fidelity. Comparing hobby modeling choices to seamanship and loss of life is completely misplaced.

Many members here strive for strict historical accuracy. Others build for craftsmanship, creativity, relaxation, or personal enjoyment. Both approaches are welcome here. Calling someone’s work “stupid,” “sacrilege,” or “shoddy” because it does not meet your expectations is not constructive criticism — it is disrespect.

You have already made your point several times. Continuing to repeat it in an aggressive and insulting manner is not helping anyone and is not how we conduct ourselves on this forum. I am giving you a warning, this time!

If you wish to participate here, discuss the work itself respectfully and accept that others may build differently than you would. If you cannot do that, then this community is probably not the right fit for you.

 

[oldflyer]

Clemens,

The looks, views, likes, followers, and especially the 99.99999% positive reviews (it was 100% yikes) and love faces that your log receives is only indicative
of that one person's unfortunate "reality". I - we all have - read criticism of our work with constructive suggestions and advice. that one is over the top "out of line". And, YES so interesting that not an image that that person's work - interesting indeed..

In the business that I was in those kind of disturbing, uncooperative, and unapologetic types were removed before leaving the gate doors locked and secured.

Clemens -take care and don't let this have too much left over time in your mind.

Regards,

 

[Jimsky]

White ropes installed where they never were, defying common sense—it's wrong.

For your information, Igor. This information was fetched from both Lee's and Marcquard's books.

The classification of deadeye lanyards sits in a gray zone between standing and running rigging, and that gray zone directly affects whether and how they were tarred. As you may know, standing rigging was generally tarred, and running rigging was NOT!

The Argument for Lanyards Being Running Rigging:

• Technically, running rigging is defined as any rope that moves through a block, deadeye, or fitting
• Lanyards literally run through the holes of the deadeyes, which by strict definition makes them running rigging
• They were replaced more frequently than shrouds and stays — more like running rigging in terms of service life
• Some period sources do treat them as a separate category entirely — neither purely standing nor purely running
• Being replaced more often meant freshly installed lanyards hadn't necessarily been pre-tarred the same way as permanent standing rigging

The Argument against (Why Many Sources Call Them Standing):

• Once tensioned and set up properly, lanyards were seized and frozen in place; they stopped running entirely
• Their purpose was to tension the standing rigging, making them functionally part of the standing rigging system
• They were not handled or adjusted during normal sailing operations, the way sheets or halyards were
• Most period rigging manuals grouped them with standing rigging for practical purposes

... so, were they actually tarred or not? The evidence suggests:

• Pre-tarred rope was likely used for lanyards when available - simply because that's what the ropewalk produced for standing rigging components.
• However, because lanyards were replaced more frequently, there are credible period accounts of untarred or lightly tarred lanyards being used, particularly on merchant vessels, where cost and practicality drove decisions
• On Royal Navy vessels, regulations suggest tarred rope was standard for lanyards
• On merchant and smaller vessels, practice was considerably more varied and less regulated (based on tar availability)

 

[Peter Voogt]

Hi Clemens. Hopefully, things are settle down a bit in your build-log again so we can continue to enjoy your build of this Batavia. John @oldflyer, as well as the others, has noted all the appreciation you have received! Hold on to that.
The Admin’s Maarten en Jim has also clarified that constructive criticism is always possible, with respect for everyone's possibilities and viewpoints.
Regards, Peter

 

[Papatotalos]

Thank you all for all the support in this.

 

[Steef66]

Just keep building, Clemens—you’re creating something beautiful, and as I said, just do what you love. And definitely don’t let the negative people get to you. They’re actually very rare here. 99.99% of people are really nice or helpful. There are always a few bad apples. The admins keep a close watch on their community.
And discussions can sometimes be educational; I was in touch with a rigger from the Göthenborg a long time ago, and he pointed me to this video on Facebook. It certainly adds something to the discussion here.

20K views · 414 reactions | As shown in our last video, the main mast was lifted back on the ship last week. Next step: the stretching of the shrouds and stays! Our bosun Marie-Louise explains more about the shrouds and show you how they are being s

As shown in our last video, the main mast was lifted back on the ship last week. Next step: the stretching of the shrouds and stays! Our bosun Marie-Louise explains more about the shrouds and show...

www.facebook.com