A very good progress you are showing. And what you are showing us looks realy good. I hope to get with my Salamandre a similar quality.....great work.
Colonial Schooner Hannah by Cap'n Rat Fink - 1/4" scale - semi scratch - Mario
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- hannah harold hahn schooner
Very nice work. I REALLY wish I had purchased this timbering set before Bob stopped producing it.
Thanks Uwek. I try to give as much info of my building process as I can. So if others have questions I had hoped with my detailed explanations I could answer some of their questions. When I read some build that have very good details it helps me a lot. There are builds that really great work but not much explanation how did it and I wish they had.
The practicum is very good. But I treat any practicum like the "PIRATES CODE". It's more like guide lines. I go by what it says and at times I go with what feels right for me to get it done.
Doc thank you! The big difficulty with this kit is the jig. The jig is nice, but once you get to a certain point it has to go. Hahn's jig the model is left in during the planking. I had to remove it because i could not put the Wales on. Most of the hull and the deck will be planked.
The Lumberyard does carry this kit. But no practicum. I had to purchase the hahn's plans to assist me with the build.
Thanks for stopping by
Mario
The practicum is very good. But I treat any practicum like the "PIRATES CODE". It's more like guide lines. I go by what it says and at times I go with what feels right for me to get it done.
Doc thank you! The big difficulty with this kit is the jig. The jig is nice, but once you get to a certain point it has to go. Hahn's jig the model is left in during the planking. I had to remove it because i could not put the Wales on. Most of the hull and the deck will be planked.
The Lumberyard does carry this kit. But no practicum. I had to purchase the hahn's plans to assist me with the build.
Thanks for stopping by
Mario
This is the same type of jig used in my LSS POF build of the Armed Virginia Sloop "Patrick Henry"
Last of the deck framing is done, with the completion of the last ledging and the breast hook combination at the bow.
Now for the poop deck framing. For the stantions I first make small cuts into each frame with my rotary tool. it makes it easier then starting with an exacto knife. the rest of the cut is done with an exacto saw blade. Then finished up with manicure files.
Now I was going to continue on with the Poop Deck. But Mark Taylor from MSW presented a question to me. Did the Hannah have a Orlop deck? I offend wondered about this. Did Hahn omit this from his model for the simple reason he was construction a model simplified for the first time POF model builder? I don't know. I hope Dave Stevens takes a look here on my build log and maybe answer my question here. Hahns book does stated the Hannah was basicly build from examples from the Halifax back in 1775 I think. I still have access to the hull interior, so I am tempted to do this if I can get clarification on the interior of the hull.
I also wondered about hanging knees and where would they be located at and the lodging knees. The ships smoke stack....there has to be a lower deck where the stove is located. Am I correct about that???
IF ANYONE CAN HELP ME WITH THESE QUESTIONS PLEASE CHIME IN. BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE A LOT MORE FUN WITH THIS MODEL!!!
I added a picture of the Halifax to help with these questions.
I have the Poop Deck ready to go. But going to wait a little bit to see if I get any answers to my questions .
Now for the poop deck framing. For the stantions I first make small cuts into each frame with my rotary tool. it makes it easier then starting with an exacto knife. the rest of the cut is done with an exacto saw blade. Then finished up with manicure files.
Now I was going to continue on with the Poop Deck. But Mark Taylor from MSW presented a question to me. Did the Hannah have a Orlop deck? I offend wondered about this. Did Hahn omit this from his model for the simple reason he was construction a model simplified for the first time POF model builder? I don't know. I hope Dave Stevens takes a look here on my build log and maybe answer my question here. Hahns book does stated the Hannah was basicly build from examples from the Halifax back in 1775 I think. I still have access to the hull interior, so I am tempted to do this if I can get clarification on the interior of the hull.
I also wondered about hanging knees and where would they be located at and the lodging knees. The ships smoke stack....there has to be a lower deck where the stove is located. Am I correct about that???
IF ANYONE CAN HELP ME WITH THESE QUESTIONS PLEASE CHIME IN. BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE A LOT MORE FUN WITH THIS MODEL!!!
I added a picture of the Halifax to help with these questions.
I have the Poop Deck ready to go. But going to wait a little bit to see if I get any answers to my questions .
I picture of the Halifax that brings up my questions.
I was planning on stopping on the Hannah a bit after I completed the Poop Deck framing. I wanted to start another scratch build. I have a buddy who wanted to build a model boat so i gave him one of my kits. He is a good model builder, but never made a boat. I gave him the kit under the condition I got the box , book, and plans back unscathed. So he made copies and wrote all over his and cut out portions out to do his build. He did a great job. So I am going to start making the build board will I hopefully get my questions answered on the Hannah. here the book.
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Now I was going to continue on with the Poop Deck. But Mark Taylor from MSW presented a question to me. Did the Hannah have a Orlop deck?
hummm I do not know what they are telling you at MSW but an "orlop deck " is the lowest deck in a ship of 2 to 4 decks. The Hannah had one deck so the simple answer is no there is no orlop deck in the Hannah.
I offend wondered about this. Did Hahn omit this from his model for the simple reason he was construction a model simplified for the first time POF model builder? I don't know.
Hahn did not omit the orlop deck because there wasn't one in a single deck ship like the Hannah. To understand the work of Harold Hahn you have to know the reasons and thinking behind each model he built. Each and every model serves a purpose and details were added or omitted depending on what the final goal he had in mind. There was no need to add unseen details below deck because they simply added nothing to the final display of the model.
Hahns book does stated the Hannah was basically build from examples from the Halifax back in 1775 I think.
The Hannah built by Hahn is a reconstruction based on general building practices of the period and what plans did survive. Hahn spent a lot of time with guys like Howard Chapelle and others to come as close as he could to the appearance and construction of colonial ships. Harold work and research was very accurate. Harold's model building had a certain degree of artistic license.
In the case of the Halifax the concept was to show the interior of the hull so all the detail was included.
I still have access to the hull interior, so I am tempted to do this if I can get clarification on the interior of the hull.
here is a drawing of a typical schooner of the time period of the Hannah. There are a number of wrecks of the period that were studies and all of them were built the same. What you see at the stern is the cabin floor which is the same as you see in the above photo of the Halifax.
here is a ship wreck of a later period but it shows the cabin floor. The cabin floor and an orlop deck are totally different things.
I also wondered about hanging knees and where would they be located at and the lodging knees.
note in the above photo the one and only set of hanging knees, for the most part hanging knees were not found in North American shipwrecks and rare to be used in small vessels like a schooner. If and when a hanging knee was use like in the above example they were placed under a load bearing beam like the beam that supported the front of the cabin. Looking at the drawing you might find a hanging knee below the double deck beams at the break of the main deck or under the beam that supported the windlass. other than that hanging knees were not used
to build ships from the Hahn collection or from his research material as he stated himself " my research work, models and drawings are a starting point for the serious builders. There is room for improvement as new information comes to light."
Hahn expected the builder to have a basic understanding of the subject and how these ship were built.
hummm I do not know what they are telling you at MSW but an "orlop deck " is the lowest deck in a ship of 2 to 4 decks. The Hannah had one deck so the simple answer is no there is no orlop deck in the Hannah.
I offend wondered about this. Did Hahn omit this from his model for the simple reason he was construction a model simplified for the first time POF model builder? I don't know.
Hahn did not omit the orlop deck because there wasn't one in a single deck ship like the Hannah. To understand the work of Harold Hahn you have to know the reasons and thinking behind each model he built. Each and every model serves a purpose and details were added or omitted depending on what the final goal he had in mind. There was no need to add unseen details below deck because they simply added nothing to the final display of the model.
Hahns book does stated the Hannah was basically build from examples from the Halifax back in 1775 I think.
The Hannah built by Hahn is a reconstruction based on general building practices of the period and what plans did survive. Hahn spent a lot of time with guys like Howard Chapelle and others to come as close as he could to the appearance and construction of colonial ships. Harold work and research was very accurate. Harold's model building had a certain degree of artistic license.
In the case of the Halifax the concept was to show the interior of the hull so all the detail was included.
I still have access to the hull interior, so I am tempted to do this if I can get clarification on the interior of the hull.
here is a drawing of a typical schooner of the time period of the Hannah. There are a number of wrecks of the period that were studies and all of them were built the same. What you see at the stern is the cabin floor which is the same as you see in the above photo of the Halifax.
here is a ship wreck of a later period but it shows the cabin floor. The cabin floor and an orlop deck are totally different things.
I also wondered about hanging knees and where would they be located at and the lodging knees.
note in the above photo the one and only set of hanging knees, for the most part hanging knees were not found in North American shipwrecks and rare to be used in small vessels like a schooner. If and when a hanging knee was use like in the above example they were placed under a load bearing beam like the beam that supported the front of the cabin. Looking at the drawing you might find a hanging knee below the double deck beams at the break of the main deck or under the beam that supported the windlass. other than that hanging knees were not used
to build ships from the Hahn collection or from his research material as he stated himself " my research work, models and drawings are a starting point for the serious builders. There is room for improvement as new information comes to light."
Hahn expected the builder to have a basic understanding of the subject and how these ship were built.
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by the way I forgot to mention your work is outstanding
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Doc thank you! The big difficulty with this kit is the jig. The jig is nice, but once you get to a certain point it has to go. Hahn's jig the model is left in during the planking. I had to remove it because i could not put the Wales on. Most of the hull and the deck will be planked.
Harold was an engineer by trade and he thought of everything when he developed his building method.
yes he did think of putting the hull in a lower jig like a cradle BUT as you found out you have to remove the hull in order to add the wales and planking. Once you remove the hull from the jig it is no longer held stable. With Hahn's method the hull framing is held in place by the jig until the wales and planking can be added, thus the hull is now sturdy and stable.
another reason to extend the jig above the hull is as you build the hull and once all the frames are in place you can sand the hull while it is held in a jig.
Harold was an engineer by trade and he thought of everything when he developed his building method.
yes he did think of putting the hull in a lower jig like a cradle BUT as you found out you have to remove the hull in order to add the wales and planking. Once you remove the hull from the jig it is no longer held stable. With Hahn's method the hull framing is held in place by the jig until the wales and planking can be added, thus the hull is now sturdy and stable.
another reason to extend the jig above the hull is as you build the hull and once all the frames are in place you can sand the hull while it is held in a jig.
Thank You Big Time didit! I think this would be Dave. Your the only person I know who know Hahn very well. There is a lot to learn on Colonial Schooner's. I do have Howard Chapelle' book also. Thinking of adding a little more detail in the hold and stern area for the fun. Never have seen the model Hannah with the extra detail. Anymore info will help me a lot. thanks again. You just made this build even more fun to do.
Many thanks for your time and the detailed explanations......very informative and interesting -> Great
Hello All,
Before I get started on my modeling updates. I would like to say me and my family offer our prayers to you all who are in the mist of fighting this horrible Pandemic. I pray everyday that the hardest hit areas Italy and Europe get a handle on this virus. I hope that being apart of the human race that we come together to beat this virus down and out of our lives. I believe we can do great things if we band together and fight this.
I live in California, USA. We have received orders to stay at home and not wonder outside into the city. Me and my wife have elderly parents in their 80's n 90's and we are trying to help them as much as possible, but also trying to practice social distancing. So God Bless to you all and we as a human race will beat this thing!!!
So being in lock-down and can't really go any where I have had even more time now for my models. So I will be updating here on the Hannah and on my New Bedford Whale Boat log. My wives n my parents require a lot of assistance, and mine are both wheel chair bound. We have 3 grandkids and as I like to refer to them as my two boys and my granddaughter.My boys are both Autistic so so our lives are filled with assisting our parents and our boys. Just in case you wanted to know where I have been and why I don't come around hardly ever anymore. But i do still work on models and woodworking in general.
So I will post soon so you know I'm still at it.
Before I get started on my modeling updates. I would like to say me and my family offer our prayers to you all who are in the mist of fighting this horrible Pandemic. I pray everyday that the hardest hit areas Italy and Europe get a handle on this virus. I hope that being apart of the human race that we come together to beat this virus down and out of our lives. I believe we can do great things if we band together and fight this.
I live in California, USA. We have received orders to stay at home and not wonder outside into the city. Me and my wife have elderly parents in their 80's n 90's and we are trying to help them as much as possible, but also trying to practice social distancing. So God Bless to you all and we as a human race will beat this thing!!!
So being in lock-down and can't really go any where I have had even more time now for my models. So I will be updating here on the Hannah and on my New Bedford Whale Boat log. My wives n my parents require a lot of assistance, and mine are both wheel chair bound. We have 3 grandkids and as I like to refer to them as my two boys and my granddaughter.My boys are both Autistic so so our lives are filled with assisting our parents and our boys. Just in case you wanted to know where I have been and why I don't come around hardly ever anymore. But i do still work on models and woodworking in general.
So I will post soon so you know I'm still at it.
Great work. Thanks for sharing.
Good to see you back, Mario!
Forgot hope to post pictures soon!!!
HI MY FRIEND THIS IS DON FARR MISSED you and your posts and log and your brillant work look forward seeing more pictures, and my sentiments exactly on this horible thing going on but i do have a little different perspective on this and it is this i truly believe that this is GOD SAYING I WILL NOT LET YOU DESTROY WHAT I HAVE CREATED, THE WORLD TOGETHER WITH GODS HELP CAN STOP THIS HORRIBLE VIRUS BUT WE MUST NOT RETURN TO THE WAYS OF THE PAST, this thing knows no borders, has no class distintion it can hit the mity as well as the homeless the world must come together and after this not to go on as usual he GOD is giving us a last calling, now enough of my thing, now let us work on what we all enjoy, help each other. Don
Kurt Konrath
Kurt Konrath
I enjoy finding these build logs and reading thru them.
Keep up great work when you can!
I am just getting back to ship modeling after about 8-10 break.
I am learning a lot from reading all the logs here
Keep up great work when you can!
I am just getting back to ship modeling after about 8-10 break.
I am learning a lot from reading all the logs here
Thanks for stopping by!
Ok it's almost 2 years since I posted anything, anything at all.
So During that time I was taking pic's and saved them to a flash drive. But now I am having trouble finding that flash drive. Worst case scenario I retake some pic's of what my model looks like now but not very detailed on the steps I took. But these steps will not help you with the basic construction of this model.
With information provided from Dave of Lumberyard I decided to add extra detail to MY Hannah! The quarter deck was installed and the model is out of the jig. So it was going to be a bear to add my idea of a cabin deck. There is virtually nothing on the how the Hannah looked like. Other then she weight 78 tons. About 5 tons lighter then the Halifax. Which I decided would help me with the extra detail. Plus I have the info from Hahn and Chappelle research on all 5 Marblehead Schooners. The bow section was the real pain because mostly it had to be done with tweezers. As for knees and other bits below deck I omitted because it was next to impossible for me to do them because I had the quarter deck in and I wasn't going to take it apart.
What I added will look like a ship under construction, for example the interior hull planking. Because I new with the Q. deck in place it would be difficult as I neared the underside of the Q. deck to fit those planks properly. So probably going to display the model like it was under construction when done. Remember I have nothing to refer to to accomplish the lower portion of Hannah. I used Halifax pictures and info in books. But Halifax is bigger and outfitted differently. I had to make sure the bulge pumps weren't going to run into a wall or whatever I decide on how to arrange the lower level. Same for the windlass and the ships masts. I had to consider all that.
All of this has been completed. I had a lot of fun too. I am ready to plank the hull and the deck. I am thinking on how to do this, and provide enough peep holes so anyone can see the below deck details. This has always been a pet peeve of mine about POF! All that work and you plank over it.
So I am hoping to find my flash drive or I will be taking new pictures from there and head into the rest of the build.
Ok it's almost 2 years since I posted anything, anything at all.
So During that time I was taking pic's and saved them to a flash drive. But now I am having trouble finding that flash drive. Worst case scenario I retake some pic's of what my model looks like now but not very detailed on the steps I took. But these steps will not help you with the basic construction of this model.
With information provided from Dave of Lumberyard I decided to add extra detail to MY Hannah! The quarter deck was installed and the model is out of the jig. So it was going to be a bear to add my idea of a cabin deck. There is virtually nothing on the how the Hannah looked like. Other then she weight 78 tons. About 5 tons lighter then the Halifax. Which I decided would help me with the extra detail. Plus I have the info from Hahn and Chappelle research on all 5 Marblehead Schooners. The bow section was the real pain because mostly it had to be done with tweezers. As for knees and other bits below deck I omitted because it was next to impossible for me to do them because I had the quarter deck in and I wasn't going to take it apart.
What I added will look like a ship under construction, for example the interior hull planking. Because I new with the Q. deck in place it would be difficult as I neared the underside of the Q. deck to fit those planks properly. So probably going to display the model like it was under construction when done. Remember I have nothing to refer to to accomplish the lower portion of Hannah. I used Halifax pictures and info in books. But Halifax is bigger and outfitted differently. I had to make sure the bulge pumps weren't going to run into a wall or whatever I decide on how to arrange the lower level. Same for the windlass and the ships masts. I had to consider all that.
All of this has been completed. I had a lot of fun too. I am ready to plank the hull and the deck. I am thinking on how to do this, and provide enough peep holes so anyone can see the below deck details. This has always been a pet peeve of mine about POF! All that work and you plank over it.
So I am hoping to find my flash drive or I will be taking new pictures from there and head into the rest of the build.