Corsair H.M.S. Enterprize Build Log

TRS7139 said:
Those are the old ones, now replaced. Among other things the back bevels were less than great.

New ones installed. Inside bevel sanding still rough, outside done and look pretty nice, glad I re did them……try and get a photo up..

Tim
P.S. A possible tip for the class you might find helpful.
When I re did the transoms I did not want to do the final angle sanding to butt against the 1/2 frame when they were glued up, incase I screwed up, they’d be a bear to remove. I did not want to do it unglued cause they really need to be finished togeather…angle for all four, the same.
What workd out quite well is I secured the notches onto a piece of square stock and spaced them all with double sided foam tape, about the same spacing which allowed final sanding as one non moving unit, saved a ton of time and came out nicely.
IMHO, this is the single trickiest area….glad I’m done with the angles.

View attachment 516171
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Hi Tim,
Good heads-up...Thank you. The stern is always one of the hardest structures to build. Yours looks great. I wish kit designers (Victor, are you there ?) would design a jig to build the stern outside the main construction jig, so the complicated stern pieces could be sanded and beveled together.
Did I understand this correctly: you built a stern jig, (kinda like the jig for the bow hawse pieces), constructed the stern -sanded and trimmed the transom beams, wing transom, etc, in your jig- then joined these to the fashion pieces in the main build jig ?.
I'm thinking: maybe I can make a stern build jig using kit timber and shapes.....Mmmmh.
I have frame 28 to build, then I'm going for the stern..,vacillating, except now I am following my commodore into the unknown wine-dark sea ahead !

Alex R
 
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Alex R said:
Hi Tim,
Good heads-up...Thank you. The stern is always one of the hardest structures to build. Yours looks great. I wish kit designers (Victor, are you there ?) would design a jig to build the stern outside the main construction jig, so the complicated stern pieces could be sanded and beveled together.
Did I understand this correctly: you built a stern jig, (kinda like the jig for the bow hawse pieces), constructed the stern -sanded and trimmed the transom beams, wing transom, etc, in your jig- then joined these to the fashion pieces in the main build jig ?.
I'm thinking: maybe I can make a stern build jig using kit timber and shapes.....Mmmmh.
I have frame 28 to build, then I'm going for the stern..,vacillating, except now I am following my commodore into the unknown wine-dark sea ahead !

Alex R
Click to expand...
No I did not…..a far more simple deal.
Used square stock to locate on the notches and then sandwiched them on the stock with foam double sided tape which spaces out almost exactly correct, could not be easier and very sturdy.
Sanded ends where they locate on 1/2 frame, did all exterior, right to final finish and interior rough bevel since the 1/2 frame needs to be attached to match the curve of that frame…..all done, one shot. Eliminates a ton of error potential with the added benefit that you can get to it from any direction/angle.
Try it, you’ll love it, and good luck.

Now that that’s done, completing the rest of the “Y’s” to ultimately join up with the #8 full frame…..lots of frame taper in this series

Tim
 
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Ok, assembly, fitting to the keel and trimming the chocks are complete up through frame 4. I’m trimming the chocks on frame 5. I’ve collected all the parts for frames 6 and 7. Tomorrow I’m going to glue the A and B halves together for frames 1 through 5 after I finish trimming the chocks on 5.
 
Well, I finished up trimming the chocks on #5 A & B and I've glued A & B together for frames 2 through 5. I had to implement a minor repair to frame 1 as I snagged it while I was moving and popped off a piece at the glue joint. So, that is drying. I'll clean up the char on the join areas on the parts for 6 & 7. :)

Update: I've glued halves of #1 together too. :)
Here, just trial fitting on the keel.
IMG_1599.jpeg
 
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Corsair said:
Well, I finished up trimming the chocks on #5 A & B and I've glued A & B together for frames 2 through 5. I had to implement a minor repair to frame 1 as I snagged it while I was moving and popped off a piece at the glue joint. So, that is drying. I'll clean up the char on the join areas on the parts for 6 & 7. :)

Update: I've glued halves of #1 together too. :)
Here, just trial fitting on the keel.
View attachment 516441
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Looking good Jeff. Aargh char… ROTF ..Cheers Grant
 
Corsair said:
Well, I finished up trimming the chocks on #5 A & B and I've glued A & B together for frames 2 through 5. I had to implement a minor repair to frame 1 as I snagged it while I was moving and popped off a piece at the glue joint. So, that is drying. I'll clean up the char on the join areas on the parts for 6 & 7. :)

Update: I've glued halves of #1 together too. :)
Here, just trial fitting on the keel.
View attachment 516441
Click to expand...
Jeff,
Double Dozuki !!
Looking good. Your work area is so clean. I bet you are an engineer by training.
Your spindle sander will make short work of that char.
When are you putting your keel assembly in the build jig ? It will help a lot with the stagger/spacing of the frames.
When I sand the bevels, I put a tiny spacer between the top timbers-2mm for full frames, 1 mm for gunport frames- It helps keep them stable during sanding, and works well when positioning in the rig.
I finished frame # 28 yesterday- have completed 37-28, and started studying and preparing the stern....
I am always leery of building the stern ! I'll post it in my build log.
Cheers
Alex R
 
TRS7139 said:
All,
Here are the new pieces I scratched, all except the top piece with the milled slots[ didn't want to re set whole milling table for slots]. I think they came out pretty decent.

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Hi Tim,
I'm starting on the stern today. Yours looks great....However, I have a question-I know the wing transom came in two pieces F1-5 and F1-6 that stick together. The other 4 transom pieces are shown on the construction manual to be single pieces # F2-5,F2-6, F2-14, F2-15. THE CONSTRUCTION MANUAL IS INCOMPLETE !!! Each of those transoms is made of TWO pieces sandwiched together. The pieces are G1-12, G1-13, G1-15, and G1-16 they are sandwiched to F2-5, F2-6, F2-14, and F2-15. Your transoms look thin, I hope that it is due to beveling and that I am not giving you an Oh Shit moment. I hope you found this out before assembling the stern.
I made a jig to dry-fit the stern pieces and stern transom to hold while I bevel them. The stern frames are all double.
IMG_1617.jpeg
Stern jig before beveling. Each stern frame and transom are made up of two pieces sandwiched together.

Victor: This is so easy to miss, and should have been clearly shown in the instructions. Is there a video of this for the 1:96 kit ?

Cheers

Alex R
 
Alex R said:
Hi Tim,
I'm starting on the stern today. Yours looks great....However, I have a question-I know the wing transom came in two pieces F1-5 and F1-6 that stick together. The other 4 transom pieces are shown on the construction manual to be single pieces # F2-5,F2-6, F2-14, F2-15. THE CONSTRUCTION MANUAL IS INCOMPLETE !!! Each of those transoms is made of TWO pieces sandwiched together. The pieces are G1-12, G1-13, G1-15, and G1-16 they are sandwiched to F2-5, F2-6, F2-14, and F2-15. Your transoms look thin, I hope that it is due to beveling and that I am not giving you an Oh Shit moment. I hope you found this out before assembling the stern.
I made a jig to dry-fit the stern pieces and stern transom to hold while I bevel them. The stern frames are all double.
View attachment 516560
Stern jig before beveling. Each stern frame and transom are made up of two pieces sandwiched together.

Victor: This is so easy to miss, and should have been clearly shown in the instructions. Is there a video of this for the 1:96 kit ?

Cheers

Alex R
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but these pieces have to be solid wood , why so in suppraposed pieces? Frank

IMG_1617.jpeg
 
Frank48 said:
but these pieces have to be solid wood , why so in suppraposed pieces? Frank

View attachment 516576
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Yes, you are right. I know that in the real ship-the stern frames were single pieces of wood. However, this is a model and subject to the kit's design. The pieces making up each frame are off different thickness. I'm sure he kit designer did it this way for technical reasons.
Alex R
 
Alex R said:
Yes, you are right. I know that in the real ship-the stern frames were single pieces of wood. However, this is a model and subject to the kit's design. The pieces making up each frame are off different thickness. I'm sure he kit designer did it this way for technical reasons.
Alex R
Click to expand...
Kit done this way primarily to avoid an entire extra sheet of proper thickness at additional cost I suspect.
Alex, when you see them at any type of angle, it’s a bit of an optical illusion, they are the exact same thickness as the OEM pieces and ultimately fit into the notches very snug before they got all glued.
As you progress with these you’ll be surprised as to how much wood gets removed. To get a nice run at exterior the angle is pretty steep.
For these, because of the angles, once all set with good contact, both sides on the 1/2 frame, I used thin CA so as not to have to fidget.

As you can see, still need sanding to bring frames in to match but after that ordeal, went back to finish last couple of the Y frames to break up the work.
All that will get finalized once I fit in the fashion pieces.

Be prepared, the top most piece ends is quite tricky, gets notched, then under notch gets curved to match inside sweep of the frame.
Good luck.
 
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Tim,

Thanks. I realized, after I wrote my previous note, that you were not satisfied with the layered stern frames, but scratch-built each one out of a single piece of wood. I'll go ahead and fill, sand and bevel my layered stern pieces and see how they look. If not happy, I'll scratch-build them as you have. I'm happy that I was wrong in thinking that you had built-up your stern using single layered pieces. It would have been such a hassle to have to re-do the whole stern..
Still, I think it's a good FYI to the other guys, who are not yet building the stern, to know that the pieces are layered, but the instructions don't show it. ....You can tell how paranoid the stern makes me.....I've had to re-do sterns several times in my shipbuilding career.
I'll take all the "good luck" I can get,.

Thanks

Alex R
 
Alex R said:
Jeff,
Double Dozuki !!
Looking good. Your work area is so clean. I bet you are an engineer by training.
Your spindle sander will make short work of that char.
When are you putting your keel assembly in the build jig ? It will help a lot with the stagger/spacing of the frames.
When I sand the bevels, I put a tiny spacer between the top timbers-2mm for full frames, 1 mm for gunport frames- It helps keep them stable during sanding, and works well when positioning in the rig.
I finished frame # 28 yesterday- have completed 37-28, and started studying and preparing the stern....
I am always leery of building the stern ! I'll post it in my build log.
Cheers
Alex R
Click to expand...
ROFL, Thats funny ! I was a Data Center Engineer/Manager when I was employed. :)
yes, I have 2 flush cut saws and also multiple razor saws too. I think if the 2 flush cut saws I prefer the Suizan saw. Here is a link: Flush-cut saw
yes, the spacer will help to stabilize the frames a lot so they don't get broken. I'll probably do the same.
I wish you the best on the stern. I'm glad you are doing yours first so I can learn from your mistakes. ROTF That's an engineering trick by the way. Learning from other peoples mistakes.
I've been putting the keel in the frame and taking it back out again to test fit frames. :)
It will become semi-permanent when I start gluing frames to the keel. :)
 
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TRS7139 said:
Kit done this way primarily to avoid an entire extra sheet of proper thickness at additional cost I suspect.
Alex, when you see them at any type of angle, it’s a bit of an optical illusion, they are the exact same thickness as the OEM pieces and ultimately fit into the notches very snug before they got all glued.
As you progress with these you’ll be surprised as to how much wood gets removed. To get a nice run at exterior the angle is pretty steep.
For these, because of the angles, once all set with good contact, both sides on the 1/2 frame, I used thin CA so as not to have to fidget.

As you can see, still need sanding to bring frames in to match but after that ordeal, went back to finish last couple of the Y frames to break up the work.
All that will get finalized once I fit in the fashion pieces.

Be prepared, the top most piece ends is quite tricky, gets notched, then under notch gets curved to match inside sweep of the frame.
Good luck.
Click to expand...
I agree with you that they probably did it to prevent having to add another sheet of wood to the kit. :)
 
Alex R said:
Hi Tim,
I'm starting on the stern today. Yours looks great....However, I have a question-I know the wing transom came in two pieces F1-5 and F1-6 that stick together. The other 4 transom pieces are shown on the construction manual to be single pieces # F2-5,F2-6, F2-14, F2-15. THE CONSTRUCTION MANUAL IS INCOMPLETE !!! Each of those transoms is made of TWO pieces sandwiched together. The pieces are G1-12, G1-13, G1-15, and G1-16 they are sandwiched to F2-5, F2-6, F2-14, and F2-15. Your transoms look thin, I hope that it is due to beveling and that I am not giving you an Oh Shit moment. I hope you found this out before assembling the stern.
I made a jig to dry-fit the stern pieces and stern transom to hold while I bevel them. The stern frames are all double.
View attachment 516560
Stern jig before beveling. Each stern frame and transom are made up of two pieces sandwiched together.

Victor: This is so easy to miss, and should have been clearly shown in the instructions. Is there a video of this for the 1:96 kit ?

Cheers

Alex R
Click to expand...
The video of the assembly of the stern for the 1/96 is at about the 5 minute mark on video #6. However, theirs are not sandwiched, but single parts.
 
Alex R said:
Yes, you are right. I know that in the real ship-the stern frames were single pieces of wood. However, this is a model and subject to the kit's design. The pieces making up each frame are off different thickness. I'm sure he kit designer did it this way for technical reasons.
Alex R
Click to expand...

Definitely a technical reason ,I think to produse that in one piece could be very difficult so compromise needs to be done.But probably Victor can tell about it more @Modelship Dockyard
 
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