Deck planking procedure

[Ted Robinson]

I don't know what wood is used for the ZHL San Felipe kit. It is extremely porous.
When testing stain colors and building a deck planking sample i found the stain bleeds through to the underside of the plank. When building the deck planking sample I found that both the PVA and CA glues bleed through to the surface.
I don't want the shiny surface created by the CA bleedthrough. I'm afraid of the splotchy finish created by the PVA bleedthrough.
I'm also afraid to prefinish the deck planks prior to installation because I won't be able to glue subsequent deck furniture.
See prestained deck plank below. It was stained with Minwax Golden Pecan oil based.
Any advice is sincerely appreciated.
Ted

 

[RussF]

Ted, you could probably solve the glue problem by using a more viscous PVA such as Weldbond or Aleene's Tacky Glue.

As for the stain, I've been using Transtint, an alcohol based dye on my Oseberg. It is concentrated, so a little goes a long way. You mix it yourself to the desired color in alcohol (isopropyl or denatured), lacquer thinner or water. I use an airbrush, but it can be wiped on as well. You can see my technique in the link just above.

I get mine at WoodCraft because there is one relatively near me. Rockler has it as well and their page has a color chart.

The nice thing about these is that you can mix the color and strength you want and being non-oil based, it won't affect future adhesion of deck furniture.

 

[Corsair]

Firstly, I would say that if you wanted to pre-stain the wood before installation, that should not create an issue with affixing deck furniture later. A stain penetrates the wood fibers and would still allow a glue to do the same, not like a paint which will also seal the wood. The glue depends on being able to penetrate into the fibers of the wood. You can also use a thicker glue that would help to prevent the 'soak-through". They make superglues in different thickness as well. It's even available as a gel.
Like you are already doing, always test before using on the build.

 

[RussF]

Firstly, I would say that if you wanted to pre-stain the wood before installation, that should not create an issue with affixing deck furniture later. A stain penetrates the wood fibers and would still allow a glue to do the same, not like a paint which will also seal the wood. The glue depends on being able to penetrate into the fibers of the wood. You can also use a thicker glue that would help to prevent the 'soak-through". They make superglues in different thickness as well. It's even available as a gel.
Like you are already doing, always test before using on the build.

Jeff, I have to respectfully disagree. Oil based stains also usually contain linseed oil which will seal the pores and negatively affect glue adhesion. Any treatise on wood finishing will always tell you to mask off areas that will be glued prior to staining. Simply G00gle "do oil based stains affect glue adhesion" and you can see for yourself.

 

[Roger Pellett]

I agree with Russ. Many so called stains are really a form of oil based paint. My father used to make his own for refinishing antique furniture. He mixed oil based artist colors with linseed oil. It will interfere with adhesion of the glue. On the other hand Transtint is a wood dye. It is not oil based. But, PVA wood glues are attacked by alcohol. Alcohol does quickly evaporate from the Transtint dye as it dries. Maybe use it before gluing the deck down.

Roger

 

[RussF]

I agree with Russ. Many so called stains are really a form of oil based paint. My father used to make his own for refinishing antique furniture. He mixed oil based artist colors with linseed oil. It will interfere with adhesion of the glue. On the other hand Transtint is a wood dye. It is not oil based. But, PVA wood glues are attacked by alcohol. Alcohol does quickly evaporate from the Transtint dye as it dries. Maybe use it before gluing the deck down.

Roger

Roger is correct in that alcohol will soften PVA, however, when you are intentionally trying to disassemble a glue joint, you would typically flood the area with alcohol and keep it wet until the glue gives. You definitely don't want to be flooding your decks with dye. Dip a lint free applicator, like the inexpensive cotton rounds or squares that are sold for applying or removing makeup, and swipe it across the area to dye until you get the color depth you want. The alcohol will evaporate quite quickly and shouldn't have time to affect the glue. Any pharmacy or department store will have them.

 

[Bob Cleek]

If you are intending to finish your deck "bright" (i.e. with a clear matte finish,) and expect to achieve a successful staining or dyeing result, you will probably be wise to use a different species for your deck planking than what the kit manufacturer supplied. From the picture you provided, it's grain figuring is way out of scale and any staining or dyeing you do is only going to exaggerate the "poke in the eye" coarse grain coloring of the kit-supplied planking. Strip wood is easily to obtain anywhere. If you intend to paint your hull, there's no need to use expensive finish species and if you want to finish the hull bright, there are many domestic species with little or no obnoxious grain figuring that are far better suited. Alaskan Yellow Cedar, clear Birch, and Cherry are a few examples.

Planking stock should be sawm vertical grained, not "flat" or plain sawn as your kit-provided stock. "Stripwood" planking is not at all an accurate portrayal of period planking practice. If you intend to fair your hull smooth and paint it, then it doesn't matter, but if you intend to finish you hull with the planking showing, (and at scale viewing distance the plank seams should not be visible,) you would do well to study up and use the standard planking practices rather than the planking approach that appears to be described in your kit instructions. Read the following planking instructional article before you buy any more "strip wood." It will explain why each plank must be separately spiled (shaped) to fit against its mates and must be cut from wider stock than the plank width. See: https://cdn.wildapricot.com/278718/...RqIo5HO0IX4CoPPA__&Key-Pair-Id=K27MGQSHTHAGGF See also: https://cdn.wildapricot.com/278718/...-0ANvZ8eAQujcOPg__&Key-Pair-Id=K27MGQSHTHAGGF and https://cdn.wildapricot.com/278718/...SIR2Xq49stSRKPrg__&Key-Pair-Id=K27MGQSHTHAGGF

When planing, keep in mind as well the scale width of the planks and their scale length. Period planking stock was never available in lengths longer than 24 or, perhaps, 30 feet. There was little available timber in longer lengths, and the technology to mill and transport much longer lumber from the forest to the shipyard didn't exist. It is also important to accurately schedule the plank butts if they are at all visible. There are rules for this which you can look up in most of the modeling manuals. Plank was never ever laid with a string of adjacent butts all on the same frame in a line, plank ends were never ever fastened with just a single fastener at the ends, and at scale viewing distances planking fasteners, are never ever visible. Depicting details contrary to these realities are common glaring mistakes made by many. Don't go there!

Planking correctly by laying out the run of the planks and shaping each as required may seem intimidating and a lot of work, but I can assure you that in the long run it is much easier than just cobbling together a bunch of strip wood to cover the frames and it produces the correct result instead of a sloppy, inaccurate representation of the real thing.

Don't hesitate to ask questions! We all get by with a little help from our friends. As they say, never swim alone. Always go with a buddy. The line modeler will find himself helpless and frustrated, Nobody knows it all. It is perhaps a "rite of initiation" for most all ship kit modelers that most kits are deficient in one way or another, and not infrequently in a number of ways. Therein lies the value of the build logs posted on ship modeling forums. They often make it possible to anticipate the problems inherent in a particular kit and avoid many hours of frustration trying to solve problems that have been already identified and solved by other builders before you. Building just about any kit by relying on the instructions, regardless of how good they may be, is a near-impossibility. They promise otherwise, but I don't know any manufacturer that provides instructions that don't presume at the very least that the builder has a fairly good command of basic woodworking skills, if not considerable knowledge regarding the construction practices of the subject ship's period. All of that later information must come from reading build logs and researching in the literature. In truth, the most essential tools for ship modeling are, books, books, and more books. For any serious modeler, an adequate research library is the most essential "tool" in their workshop.

As you may have already learned from experience, it takes a lot of research, re-engineering, and hard work beyond what the manufacturer's instructions indicate to get a good model out of many ship model kits, but all of that is as much a fun part of the hobby as anything else.

 

[AllanKP69]

From the picture you provided, it's grain figuring is way out of scale and any staining or dyeing you do is only going to exaggerate the "poke in the eye" coarse grain coloring of the kit-supplied planking.

Best advice IMHO. Save the stuff they provided for some other purpose and use a tight grained species that you like.