"Flying Cloud " by Mamoli - kit bash

Bill-R said:
Hi Peter,
I was thinking of the naval hood as a purely decorative piece, but it makes sense that it would add a great deal of strength to the stem area.

Bill
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Bill,
I honestly believe that's where well meaning researchers like Scott Bradner and so many others have missed the mark on McKay's nautical genius. They're thinking in terms of purely decorative value, such as trail boards, etc. But by not being able to grasp the structural significance of the naval hood-cutwater combination they completely dismissed them as fanciful decorations. That's precisely what Duncan McLean said these devices were not. Look very closely at these contemporary scenes of and note how tightly the naval hoods adhere to her hull. They are decorated with carvings that originally were gilded but that's where they differ. They're really an integral component and extension of the ship's hull itself. Since they're also crossbolted to each other right through the cutwater which is sandwiched below, they make for a practically indestructible prow. All three of these structures: cutwater and both naval hoods form a far more sturdy base for the massive bowsprit-jibboom combination mounted just above. Which reminds me, both of those spars while round outside of the bow, are actually squared off just before entering the hull. Close examination of these images reveals this. Also note, the inner Jibboom gets reduced slightly in size about 6' out. courtesy PEM, Salem, MA

(1) close-up 1869 detail of Glory of the Seas on the ways, shortly before her launch. Her Naval hood is the large reverse curving arch which ends in a point above and behind the figurehead. Note how tightly these devices hug the ship's prow. There's almost no cast shadow to see underneath. Below that is the cutwater (part which is visible, in reality a larger portion is sandwiched between both naval hoods. Figurehead has her feet mounted on the cutwater scrollwork, behind her, where it is hidden, is a large iron bar that also mounts her to the naval hoods behind her. This is the unique McKay bow.
(2) 1913 Muir photo: starboard broadside Glory of the Seas prow. Intact naval hoods with all original carvings, intact cutwater missing most of her ornate acanthus leaf overlay. Highest bulwark, her splashrail is cracked. That's the total visible damage from a steam ship colliding with her.
(3) Rob Wiederrich's 1:96th scale Glory of the Seas model, in the same position. Compare and contrast this far more elegant prow to other McKay models with just a bare stem. Difference is night and day. For the record, Rob and Vladimir's models are the first known examples to finally display an accurate McKay bow.

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rwiederrich said:
Hi William...Oh my word.... It has been a long time. You know....I actually gave that kit to a Nephew...who had been spying it in my model room. Actually, I think it was the Sovereign of the Seas....was it not? I had full intention of tackling her...but my own scratch built Great Republic....and now most recently, Glory of the Seas...has taken over. I helped my nephew....till he moved to Arizona.

I pray, your injuries are not extreme...and that you recover quickly. Sorry to hear. Glad to see you are still active and participating.

Rob
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No, it was Bluejacket's Flying Cloud. I am also glad that you are still around! I love your ships! How is it in Puget Sound!

Bill
 
Oops! Now I've got to clean the black paint off the forward section of my brand-new jibboom! No hay problema. It's made of nice dense , smooth boxwood. Should clean right off with a little rubbing alcohol on a rag.
 
Peter Gutterman said:
Oops! Now I've got to clean the black paint off the forward section of my brand-new jibboom! No hay problema. It's made of nice dense , smooth boxwood. Should clean right off with a little rubbing alcohol on a rag.
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Peter,
I had no idea that your entire jibboom was painted black! I will endeavour to try and stay ahead of your construction process. While I'm causing you more agita I'll remind you that the jibboom narrows about 6' before it enters the prow and both bowsprit and jibboom actually become rectangular just before entering the hull. It's another oversight of commercial modelers. From a nautical engineering perspective, this makes sense as it prevents these massive spars from rotating. If you've already mounted the bowsprit, you could possibly use a small amount of wood putty to simulate it.
 
Hi ClipperFan,
Very good point. The combination of the structures being through bolted together with the squared off bowsprit-jibboom would create a substantially stronger unit. Thanks for the pictures and the information. It is becoming very clear to me now. For some reason I am not seeing the second picture: 1913 Muir photo.

Thanks, Bill
 
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WilliamM said:
No, it was Bluejacket's Flying Cloud. I am also glad that you are still around! I love your ships! How is it in Puget Sound!

Bill
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I stand corrected. Oh yes I’m still around. Just been so focused on remodeling the house and the landscaping. My wife needed a change. So I built her a huge 30x30 deck and covered portico…….with lots of shade sails.
Piglet Sound is beautiful. Lots of ocean water, mountains and family.

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ClipperFan said:
Peter,
I had no idea that your entire jibboom was painted black! I will endeavour to try and stay ahead of your construction process. While I'm causing you more agita I'll remind you that the jibboom narrows about 6' before it enters the prow and both bowsprit and jibboom actually become rectangular just before entering the hull. It's another oversight of commercial modelers. From a nautical engineering perspective, this makes sense as it prevents these massive spars from rotating. If you've already mounted the bowsprit, you could possibly use a small amount of wood putty to simulate it.
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I haven't posted a picture yet of the newly mounted jibboom painted and glued in place. Just the unfinished basswood jibboom dry fitted. The next posted picture will be the final iteration, black to the cap, natural to the end. Not a difficult problem to remove the black paint from the cap forward. Both the bowsprit and jibboom narrow slightly from round to square where they insert into the bow of the ship. That part I got from the beginning as all plans I have conformed on that detail. Actually, kind of a uniform standard on all of the sailing vessels with bowsprit and jibboom set-up that I've worked on.
 
Bill-R said:
Hi ClipperFan,
Very good point. The combination of the structures being through bolted together with the squared off bowsprit-jibboom would create a substantially stronger unit. Thanks for the pictures and the information. It is becoming very clear to me now. For some reason I am not seeing the second picture: 1913 Muir photo.

Thanks, Bill
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Bill,
For some odd reason, it was the first 1869 picture that didn't get saved properly. So I uploaded all 3 again. Let me know if you still can't see all 3.

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rwiederrich said:
I stand corrected. Oh yes I’m still around. Just been so focused on remodeling the house and the landscaping. My wife needed a change. So I built her a huge 30x30 deck and covered portico…….with lots of shade sails.
Piglet Sound is beautiful. Lots of ocean water, mountains and family.

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Rob
That is some seriously beautiful wooden sculptural work! Clearly you built this but did you design it all too? Wow! This could be highlighted on Better homes and Gardens! Your wife is a lucky lady...
 
ClipperFan said:
Rob
That is some seriously beautiful wooden sculptural work! Clearly you built this but did you design it all too? Wow! This could be highlighted on Better homes and Gardens! Your wife is a lucky lady...
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Yes I designed it as well. The large shade retracts back too and under the eave of the portico if not wanted out. I also built her a 10ft cedar topped table for the dinning area off to the left...where the chairs can be seen. I also have a complete professional sound system with mics for outdoor events. But I digress from the subject.

Rob
 
Hi ClipperFan,

I now see the three pictures. Thanks for reposting them. As is said " A picture is worth a thousand words. The navel hood is very clear now. It has created several questions for me. Looking at the picture and comparing them to plans I have seen, I see two concerns. On some plans I have seen, it appears the hawspipe opening it too high to accommodate a naval hood. Also, on some drawings, the lower edge of the bulwark does not run parallel to the top edge of the bulwark. This combined with the position of the hawspipe leaves no room for a naval hood. Looking at your first picture of the Glory of the Seas, the bulwark appears to run parallel towards the stem.
I am very new at this and am enjoying this discussion very much. Please let me know if anything I write is incorrect or off base.

Thanks,
Bill
 
Bill-R said:
Hi ClipperFan,

I now see the three pictures. Thanks for reposting them. As is said " A picture is worth a thousand words. The navel hood is very clear now. It has created several questions for me. Looking at the picture and comparing them to plans I have seen, I see two concerns. On some plans I have seen, it appears the hawspipe opening it too high to accommodate a naval hood. Also, on some drawings, the lower edge of the bulwark does not run parallel to the top edge of the bulwark. This combined with the position of the hawspipe leaves no room for a naval hood. Looking at your first picture of the Glory of the Seas, the bulwark appears to run parallel towards the stem.
I am very new at this and am enjoying this discussion very much. Please let me know if anything I write is incorrect or off base.

Thanks,
Bill
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Hi Bill. the planksheer becomes the top of the hood. Many incorrect drawings try to account for the lack of a hood, so they become creative with the stem
Remember, the planksheer is basically the level of the main deck. The cap rail is above that and the monkey rail cap still further above that. forming the bulwark proper.

If the howes hole is in the way on your drawing, it is most likely misplaced. McKay was adamant about his secret hood and it was a critical structural feature he developed. No other designed used it. If McKay had so well kept his secret...and she is present on his last clipper......it is a pretty well concluded fact, that he used it on all of his clippers. He saw it as structurally required, as much as the keel itself.

Rob
 
Bill-R said:
Hi Peter,

It just came to me that my questions may be hijacking your wonderful build thread. I apologize if I was doing that.

Bill
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No worries, this ongoing Q. and A. concerning these details unique to McKay clippers are useful to me and this current Flying Cloud build and informative to anyone following this build with those questions in mind. If you start your own build, of course start your own log. I appreciate and enjoy sidebars such as Rob's beautiful deck, but let's not stray too far off topic.

Pete
 
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