"Flying Cloud " by Mamoli - kit bash

ClipperFan said:
Peter,
More Glory of the Seas main deck images and how Vladimir modeled the main deck house for his 1:72nd scale miniature (that is if you can call a 4 & 1/2 ft replica one). It's tough to see, but 3 gothic recessed panels are on the port forecastle bulkhead. There's also an above image of his forecastle which shows the internal shelf. Finally, the last pic is of his entire finished model, showing how an authentic McKay clipper actually looked like. Flying Cloud would have looked very similar, except being an extreme clipper her hull was slimmer and she had large single topsails instead of the later split upper and lower topsails with Howes rig.

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Thanks, this is helpful.
 
ClipperFan said:
Peter,
More Glory of the Seas main deck images and how Vladimir modeled the main deck house for his 1:72nd scale miniature (that is if you can call a 4 & 1/2 ft replica one). It's tough to see, but 3 gothic recessed panels are on the port forecastle bulkhead. There's also an above image of his forecastle which shows the internal shelf. Finally, the last pic is of his entire finished model, showing how an authentic McKay clipper actually looked like. Flying Cloud would have looked very similar, except being an extreme clipper her hull was slimmer and she had large single topsails instead of the later split upper and lower topsails with Howes rig.

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I am very happy to receive these photos! They make want to go back to sea!

Bill
 
Looks to me like maybe sliding doors and a window opening out on hinges with lapped siding in the photo. Checking other resources and plans, no two agree on the layout for Flying Cloud. A couple of other pictures in Michael Mjelde's book show eight windows on the side. Inconclusive as to which are in the doors (if at all) and the placement-spacing of the doors. A single door port side, front face. How this information applies to Flying Cloud's main cabin window-door arrangement and design, hinged or sliding very speculative. I have four different sources (albeit one is of Flying Fish). All differ, not including what is pictured here for "Glory" which adds a whole other layer of puzzlement. o_OCautious
I'm working on cavils, bitts and sheeve holes in the bulwarks for sheets and braces, so plenty of time yet to mull things over.
 
Peter,
Here's the most accurate description of Flying Cloud supplied April 25th, 1851 by Boston Daily Atlas scribe Duncan McLean.


All statistical data was supplied by Donald McKay's shipyard. Dimensions of the long house abaft the foremast are 41 feet long x 18 feet wide by 6 & 1/2 feet high. Her forecastle is 30 feet long and inside its' afterwings it has 2 water closets (bathrooms). We learned that the height is not that of the 5 foot mainrail but at the 16" monkey rail above that (6 feet 4 inches) high. There's not a lot of information about entrances into the long house. Just that accommodations are provided for ship's officers, the other watch of the crew not stationed under the forecastle and the galley. If you know how many ship's officers there were, I would count 1 door for each. Watch of the crew probably had 1 door, and another for the galley. Minimum 4 maybe 5 doors. Most likely all sliding for safety.
From previous descriptions, the lower section was undecorated while the upper one had gothic panels in between windows with sliding storm shutters. I shared the Glory of the Seas details, not to confuse you but since it was the only authentic resource available.
 
As I mentioned there are some pictures of the long house of the "Glory" in Michael Mjelde's book that give more of a profile, but it looks like a lot bigger and roomier cabin than that of Flying Cloud. The various plans I have show 3-4 doors per side. I found one diagram of the layout of Glory's aft cabin but not the main deck cabin. Maybe sketching out possible interior layouts would help determine the logic of the exterior look of door and window placement.
Thanks for all of the collaborative interest and effort to get as close to right as possible or probable. I have to resist the urge to be in a hurry. The next question might be how many officers and how many men on the watch were housed there at any given time, the arrangements, and the size and position of the galley?
In the meantime, I have 16 mooring bitts, two boomkins and the sheeves in the bulwarks to install.
Maybe we'll get all these mysteries worked out in time for Bill when he gets around to his Flying Cloud model. ;)
 
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Peter Gutterman said:
As I mentioned there are some pictures of the long house of the "Glory" in Michael Mjelde's book that give more of a profile, but it looks like a lot bigger and roomier cabin than that of Flying Cloud. The various plans I have show 3-4 doors per side. I found one diagram of the layout of Glory's aft cabin but not the main deck cabin. Maybe sketching out possible interior layouts would help determine the logic of the exterior look of door and window placement.
Thanks for all of the collaborative interest and effort to get as close to right as possible or probable. I have to resist the urge to be in a hurry. The next question might be how many officers and how many men on the watch were housed there at any given time, the arrangements, and the size and position of the galley?
In the meantime, I have 16 mooring bitts, two boomkins and the sheeves in the bulwarks to install.
Maybe we'll get all these mysteries worked out in time for Bill when he gets around to his Flying Cloud.
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Peter Gutterman said:
As I mentioned there are some pictures of the long house of the "Glory" in Michael Mjelde's book that give more of a profile, but it looks like a lot bigger and roomier cabin than that of Flying Cloud. The various plans I have show 3-4 doors per side. I found one diagram of the layout of Glory's aft cabin but not the main deck cabin. Maybe sketching out possible interior layouts would help determine the logic of the exterior look of door and window placement.
Thanks for all of the collaborative interest and effort to get as close to right as possible or probable. I have to resist the urge to be in a hurry. The next question might be how many officers and how many men on the watch were housed there at any given time, the arrangements, and the size and position of the galley?
In the meantime, I have 16 mooring bitts, two boomkins and the sheeves in the bulwarks to install.
Maybe we'll get all these mysteries worked out in time for Bill when he gets around to his Flying Cloud model. ;)
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Given that my version of Flying Cloud is solid hull, I am attacking it differently than if it was a PoB. That means that I began by thinning out the bulwarks. I drew a line at the top of the bulwarks to the minimum point of thinness and cut them down using a cutting disk for my Dremel. I then sanded the bulwarks to where I was happy with their thinness. Afterwards I created templates from the plans. That is as far as I have gotten.

Bill
 
Please Bill, start a build log. From what you've described so far, I'd like to follow your process and progress. There haven't been any carved hull projects to follow on this forum and it is a classic retro technique used almost exclusively when doing scratch builds for the USNA museum. So we've already missed some important steps in your process. Don't wait. Bring us alongExclamation-MarkThumbsup

Pete
 
WilliamM said:
Given that my version of Flying Cloud is solid hull, I am attacking it differently than if it was a PoB. That means that I began by thinning out the bulwarks. I drew a line at the top of the bulwarks to the minimum point of thinness and cut them down using a cutting disk for my Dremel. I then sanded the bulwarks to where I was happy with their thinness. Afterwards I created templates from the plans. That is as far as I have gotten.

Bill
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Bill,
The single best document about constructuon details of Flying Cloud is the April 20, 1851 Boston Daily Atlas article by Duncan McLean. Since he was apparently good friends with Donald McKay, he was given very detailed specs from the shipyard. As you proceed, I encourage you to familiarize yourself with the specific details of her construction.
A caveat: I believe her 37" keel outside the garboards is wrong, as that leaves only a 7" balance for upper keel, since her combined depths of keel is 44". It's more sensible that her outer keel is 30", leaving 14" for the inner one.


Any questions, I'll be glad to help.
 
Peter Gutterman said:
As I mentioned there are some pictures of the long house of the "Glory" in Michael Mjelde's book that give more of a profile, but it looks like a lot bigger and roomier cabin than that of Flying Cloud. The various plans I have show 3-4 doors per side. I found one diagram of the layout of Glory's aft cabin but not the main deck cabin. Maybe sketching out possible interior layouts would help determine the logic of the exterior look of door and window placement.
Thanks for all of the collaborative interest and effort to get as close to right as possible or probable. I have to resist the urge to be in a hurry. The next question might be how many officers and how many men on the watch were housed there at any given time, the arrangements, and the size and position of the galley?
In the meantime, I have 16 mooring bitts, two boomkins and the sheeves in the bulwarks to install.
Maybe we'll get all these mysteries worked out in time for Bill when he gets around to his Flying Cloud model. ;)
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Pete,
McKay's initial clipper Stag Hound has much more detailed information about the specific dimensions as well as apartments of the long house behind the foremast. Flying Cloud would have a similar layout with essentially the same number of doors, but with slightly different dimensions: 41 feet long by 18 wide and 6 & 1/2 feet high.

The New Clipper Stag Hound
The Boston Daily Atlas, Dec 21, 1850

"Abaft the foremast she has a house 42 feet long by 24 wide, and six high, which contains spacious accommodations for the crew, and other apartments for a galley, store rooms etc., the upper part of the house is ornamented with panels, which look neatly."

Later on in the article Duncan McLean adds the following:

"The forward cabin contains the captain's state-room, which overlooks the main deck, on the starboard side; it also contains the pantry, and state-rooms for three mates and the steward. It is 12 by 18 feet, and is neatly painted and grained; and lighted the same as that abaft. Her cabins were designed and finished by Mr. Thos. Manson, who's work on the ship Daniel Webster and other ships, has been highly commended."

Counting a door for each apartment results in 9. The one apartment given specific dimensions is the 12 foot by 18 foot captain's state-room overlooking the main deck on the starboard side. The would place it on the aft, right end corner. Counting the galley and pantry as one door drops door count to 8. From actual photos of Glory of the Seas the exhaust stack for the galley is towards the rear, which would place the galley-pantry on the rear port corner. Unless you plan to model interiors, this should be enough to give you some ideas how to space doors on your Flying Cloud.
 
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ClipperFan said:
Pete,
McKay's initial clipper Stag Hound has much more detailed information about the specific dimensions as well as apartments of the long house behind the foremast. would have a similar layout with essentially the same number of doors:

The New Clipper Stag Hound
The Boston Daily Atlas, Dec 21, 1850

"Abaft the foremast she has a house 42 feet long by 24 wide, and six high, which contains spacious accommodations for the crew, and other apartments for a galley, store rooms etc., the upper part of
the house is ornamented with panels, which look neatly."
"The forward cabin contains the captain's state-room, which overlooks the main deck, on the starboard side; it also contains the pantry, and state-rooms for three mates and the steward. It is 12 by 18 feet, and is neatly painted and grained; and lighted the same as that abaft. Her cabins were designed and finished by Mr. Thos. Manson, who's work on the ship Daniel Webster and other ships, has been highly commended."

Counting a door for each apartment results in 9. The one apartment given specific dimensions is the 12 foot by 18 foot captain's state-room overlooking the main deck on the starboard side. The would place it on the aft, right end corner. Counting the galley and pantry as one door drops door count to 8. From actual photos of Glory of the Seas the exhaust stack for the galley is towards the rear, which would place the galley-pantry on the rear port corner. Unless you plan to model interiors, this should be enough to give you some ideas how to space doors on your Flying Cloud.
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Thanks. This should give me enough information to draw a plan and locate windows and doors. An interesting comment is the one about the upper part of the house decorated with "neat" panels. By that I suppose it to mean symmetrical, or well ordered.
 
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Peter Gutterman said:
Thanks. This should give me enough information to draw a plan and locate windows and doors. An interesting comment is the one about the upper part of the house decorated with "neat" panels. By that I suppose it to mean symmetrical, or well ordered.
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Peter,
I've learned by reading quite a few of Duncan MacLean's ship description articles that's he's less then effusive when it comes to describing their ornamentation. I attribute that to his Scottish, frugal nature. He's far more descriptive about vessel construction. A boon to modelers. Think of simple gothic panels for the upper decorations, like they were on Glory of the Seas and you'll be fine.
 
Peter Gutterman said:
The following is some process pics of (hopefully) improving my hull after much filling and sanding. The filler is a non-toxic water based black glazing compound, easy to apply and sand. It dries fairly quickly. Sometimes repeated applications are required. I used medium and fine sanding sponge cut to sizes most suitable to the areas requiring sanding. The backing of the sanding sponge provides just the right balance of flexibility and rigidity to deal with evening out an uneven surface over compound curves. I mixed some acrylic matte medium to an acrylic satin black to get the degree of satin I wanted just short of flat black. Many hours ensued of sanding, filling and more sanding and not a little cursing along with aggravated arthritis and bursitis. GOD! I hate sanding. Remember any scratches you put in you have to take out. So, start with the least aggressive grit possible to do the job.
Completing this I started adding the "brass' chain plates. For these I am using a gold twine doubled and the two strands held together with CA, then anchored with brass round head brads. Shown is a mistaken "dogleg" which I removed and corrected. More two steps forward and one back. I will use black line for the black "chains", a process I have used before which gives a satisfactorily effective simplification at these smaller scales. I have no shame. I like simplification. :rolleyes: View attachment 450721View attachment 450722View attachment 450724View attachment 450726View attachment 450727View attachment 450728View attachment 450729View attachment 450730View attachment 450732View attachment 450733View attachment 450734View attachment 450735
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Pete! Your Kung-Fu is the best!
 
Latest progress: Side windows for coach house on card stock glued in place.
Making and installing cavils and riding bitts made of boxwood
For bitt installation: mark position of bitt on deck by tracing square butt. Find center and mark with the point of an awl. Drill small hole to appropriate depth. Cut squared edges to appropriate depth with sharp chisel of exact width of side of bitt. drill center with drill dia. the width between centers of sides. cut and clean waste until a square hole is achieved to receive the bitt. Cut to size, do any required shaping, glue in place with white glue. there are16 bitts and 6 cavils This is slow careful work not to be rushed. Accuracy when marking, drilling and cutting in with the chisel are paramount. You only get one go'round, so take your time and take breathers in between operations.20240720_093000[1].jpg20240726_151209[1].jpg20240723_154350[1].jpg20240724_131516[1].jpg20240726_141149[1].jpg20240726_142242[1].jpg20240724_161734[1].jpg20240725_142855[1].jpg20240726_143137[1].jpg20240726_143115[1].jpg20240726_150039[1].jpg20240726_150805[1].jpg20240726_150834[1].jpg

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I'm trying out a new method of posting pictures direct from my phone. A little squirrely yet, but, with practice, should prove superior to my previous efforts. :rolleyes:
Thanks to Chuck "The Gavel" for catching up and your welcome responses!Thumbsup
 
It's coming along nicely with great detail... I like the rudder assembly.

I look forward to the next group of pictures. It will be much easier to move them directly from your phone.
 
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