"Flying Cloud " by Mamoli - kit bash

[Peter Gutterman]

BTW, the door from Glory of the Seas is an arched frame with a fielded panel, which looks to have been veneered with bird's-eye maple and varnished. Doubtless from a passenger or officer's cabin interior. Even the usually descriptively terse Duncan McClean waxed rhapsodic over the elegant passenger and officer's cabin interiors with their mahogany, satin wood and (Brazilian) rosewood furnishings.

 

[ClipperFan]

An ogee is the "S" shaped curve of a molding in cross-section, similar in proportion, large curve to small curve, to that of a cabriole leg.View attachment 463107

Peter,
Thanks for clarifying that with a nice sketch. I probably used the wrong example to try and illustrate an idea. None of the pictures of Glory of the Seas deck structures show double moldings. Just single ones. I apologize for the confusion it's caused.

 

[ClipperFan]

BTW, the door from Glory of the Seas is an arched frame with a fielded panel, which looks to have been veneered with bird's-eye maple and varnished. Doubtless from a passenger or officer's cabin interior. Even the usually descriptively terse Duncan McClean waxed rhapsodic over the elegant passenger and officer's cabin interiors with their mahogany, satin wood and (Brazilian) rosewood furnishings.

Peter,
You're a man who knows his woods.

 

[Peter Gutterman]

As a furniture restorer I worked on a lot of furniture from that period. I saw much the same woods and combinations of woods as those mentioned by Duncan McClean in his description of Flying Cloud's high end cabin interiors,

 

[Peter Gutterman]

Peter,
Thanks for clarifying that with a nice sketch. I probably used the wrong example to try and illustrate an idea. None of the pictures of Glory of the Seas deck structures show double moldings. Just single ones. I apologize for the confusion it's caused.

No confusion experienced, or apologies necessary.

 

[Peter Gutterman]

Richard, I got the copy of the NRJ today and began poring over the wealth of information. Of course, the first thing I do when I get such articles is to look at the pictures and read the captions. Lots to see! Now I get to go back and read the whole thing. I especially liked the sailor's story about the hapless model for the figurehead Athena and her equally tragic, unrequited, Sailor fiancé. Every great ship has to have a good yarn to go with it! I look forward to the follow-up.
The article is a must have for Donald Mckay clipper fans and/or clippers in general.

 

[ClipperFan]

Richard, I got the copy of the NRJ today and began poring over the wealth of information. Of course, the first thing I do when I get such articles is to look at the pictures and read the captions. Lots to see! Now I get to go back and read the whole thing. I especially liked the sailor's story about the hapless model for the figurehead Athena and her equally tragic, unrequited, Sailor fiancé. Every great ship has to have a good yarn to go with it! I look forward to the follow-up.
The article is a must have for Donald Mckay clipper fans and/or clippers in general.

Peter,
I'm glad you enjoyed it. It's actually my first foray into this new art. Fortunately, in this case the many pictures practically write the tale itself. I also benefitted tremendously from encouragement by author Michael Mjelde. Modelers Rob and Vlad were both excited to see our story get out there. And I owe a debt of gratitude to a generous fellow who goes by Druxey on the other site. He did a great job editing my rough draft. Apparently, I tend to write "run on" sentences. Let's just say there were enough red underlines to give CSI a run for their money!

 

[Peter Gutterman]

Reading the article reinforces my belief that anyone taking a shot at Flying Cloud will need to start from scratch, perhaps using the BlueJacket plans (which I believe probably come the closest of available plans) as a starting point but will need to do some serious revising. In particular to the bow taking into consideration the addition of naval hoods, the shape of the stem and cutwater and dimensions and placement of the figurehead. The available BlueJacket figurehead at1:96 scale will probably work. But someone wanting to build the ship would be well advised to get out the drafting table and paper and measure and draft the necessary revisions before the hull begins to take shape. I would advise against doing what I did trying to modify the Mamoli offering, as it requires way too many revisions and is full of hidden flaws such as the scale of the counter which does not have the thickness when assembled as per the instructions to properly fit the shape of the stern. And it fits into the false keel at far too sharp an angle as designed for the model. I realize that Scott Bradner used the Mamoli kit as the basis for his model. But close examination of his process reveals how extensive his revisions were to that kit. I stepped into that trap as a result and have wished I had done something different ever since. Also to be taken into consideration are the considerable contributions You and Rob Wiederrich have made to my build log.
I think that my model is probably on track to be a pretty decent contribution to the long trail of Flying Cloud models, with, thanks to your and Rob's contributions will include some uniquely faithful Flying Cloud representations. But I believe, in fairness to the next modeler hopeful of making a faithful representation of the ship, that a very deep breath and dive into how she was actually constructed, and her unique Donald McKay peculiarities would be in order, perhaps taking advantage of your and Rob's already considerable investment into that historic context.

 

[ClipperFan]

As a furniture restorer I worked on a lot of furniture from that period. I saw much the same woods and combinations of woods as those mentioned by Duncan McClean in his description of Flying Cloud's high end cabin interiors,

Peter
As a furniture restorer, I figured you'll really appreciate the lavish beauty of mixed burled woods within the original 1883 Maine "Down Easter" clipper ship Benjamin F Packard. Like Glory of the Seas, she too had a long, productive career. There were even plans to preserve her as a museum ship, after being decommissioned in 1927, 44 years later. However, her last career was as a pseudo pirate ship, berthed at Playland Amusement Park. Sadly, she never recovered from the destruction of the 1938 Hurricane. Fortunately, her entire Captain's Cabin is preserved and open for viewing as a separate exhibit at Mystic Seaport, CT.

 

[ClipperFan]

Reading the article reinforces my belief that anyone taking a shot at Flying Cloud will need to start from scratch, perhaps using the BlueJacket plans (which I believe probably come the closest of available plans) as a starting point but will need to do some serious revising. In particular to the bow taking into consideration the addition of naval hoods, the shape of the stem and cutwater and dimensions and placement of the figurehead. The available BlueJacket figurehead at1:96 scale will probably work. But someone wanting to build the ship would be well advised to get out the drafting table and paper and measure and draft the necessary revisions before the hull begins to take shape. I would advise against doing what I did trying to modify the Mamoli offering, as it requires way too many revisions and is full of hidden flaws such as the scale of the counter which does not have the thickness when assembled as per the instructions to properly fit the shape of the stern. And it fits into the false keel at far too sharp an angle as designed for the model. I realize that Scott Bradner used the Mamoli kit as the basis for his model. But close examination of his process reveals how extensive his revisions were to that kit. I stepped into that trap as a result and have wished I had done something different ever since. Also to be taken into consideration are the considerable contributions You and Rob Wiederrich have made to my build log.
I think that my model is probably on track to be a pretty decent contribution to the long trail of Flying Cloud models, with, thanks to your and Rob's contributions will include some uniquely faithful Flying Cloud representations. But I believe, in fairness to the next modeler hopeful of making a faithful representation of the ship, that a very deep breath and dive into how she was actually constructed, and her unique Donald McKay peculiarities would be in order, perhaps taking advantage of your and Rob's already considerable investment into that historic context.

Peter,
As a lover of the authentic, historic, and yes rugged beauty of McKay's truly unique clipper ships, I applaud your efforts to achieve the best representation of your Mamoli Flying Cloud model. As Rob said, revising your model to incorporate new information previously unknown is a real challenge to achieve. In fact, before we began our exciting journey of discovery of McKay's final clipper, Rob had created his first Glory of the Seas replica by extensively modifying a 3' Revell Cutty Sark model to represent McKay's clipper. In fact, it was his dissatisfaction with that end result which led him to decide to redo his efforts entirely from scratch. If you'd like to see that process being repeated, you're more than welcome to join us on Rob's newest endeavor. For the first time ever, we are creating scale accurate plans to scratch build Donald McKay's inaugural extreme clipper Staghound "Pioneer vessel of the California Fleet."

 

[Peter Gutterman]

Yep. That looks like a lot of the furniture of that era that I had the pleasure and privilege of working on. (more accurately "Bel Epoch" in America than "Victorian")
My specialty, secret to success and entre to the privilege of working on historic period pieces was my ability and faithful adherence to correctly restoring original (or at least very old) finishes, saving the patina (color acquired through the aging process) and crackled texture, called "craquelure". Thanks for sharing that! It tugs at particular strings of my past connected to a special place in my heart. If you have a copy of vol. II of Grant Walker's Books on the USNA Roger's collection, you will see a chapter on my restoration work on the 73-gun Spanish second rate "El Terrible". It landed in my lap (actually Don Preul, the curator of models put it out on the shop floor where I would literally trip over it) because the model's peculiar restoration problems were uniquely suited to my wheelhouse. Including preserving the craquelure of the ships painted bottom. There's a thread somewhere here on SOS on that particular restoration.

 

[Peter Gutterman]

Will there be a "Staghound" thread on SOS? I'm likely to get a set of plans just to have them. Sounds like a good candidate for a Seawatch books edition. No s**t, I'd approach them on the idea, it's what they do, after all! With your NRJ entries I believe you'd have a foot in the door! You even have the title!
I'm happy enough with my current Flying Cloud effort not to want to scrap it and start over. I'll be more than happy to root for Bill R. and William M. in that regard.

 

[rwiederrich]

Will there be a "Staghound" thread on SOS? I'm likely to get a set of plans just to have them. Sounds like a good candidate for a Seawatch books edition. No s**t, I'd approach them on the idea, it's what they do, after all! With your NRJ entries I believe you'd have a foot in the door! You even have the title!
I'm happy enough with my current Flying Cloud effort not to want to scrap it and start over. I'll be more than happy to root for Bill R. and William M. in that regard.

I will start my Staghound log as soon as the hull and its particulars are finalized. The CAD work is laborious and much discussion takes place. Much of that, is conducted privately. Soon as bulkheads are laser cut and in the mail, I feel, at that time, I’ll open the log fully. I’ve already carved and finished the Staghound figurehead and made all the railing stanchions. I think, I might begin the main fore deck cabin to get ahead of the game.
We have so much info, and Rich and Vlad have contributed so much……..we will then be bombarding the build log with lots of funnary.

It’s coming soon.

Rob

 

[Jimsky]

It’s coming soon.

Looking forward to your build log, Rob.

 

[Peter Gutterman]

I will start my Staghound log as soon as the hull and its particulars are finalized. The CAD work is laborious and much discussion takes place. Much of that, is conducted privately. Soon as bulkheads are laser cut and in the mail, I feel, at that time, I’ll open the log fully. I’ve already carved and finished the Staghound figurehead and made all the railing stanchions. I think, I might begin the main fore deck cabin to get ahead of the game.
We have so much info, and Rich and Vlad have contributed so much……..we will then be bombarding the build log with lots of funnary.

It’s coming soon.

Rob

"Funnary". I love it!

 

[ClipperFan]

Yep. That looks like a lot of the furniture of that era that I had the pleasure and privilege of working on. (more accurately "Bel Epoch" in America than "Victorian")
My specialty, secret to success and entre to the privilege of working on historic period pieces was my ability and faithful adherence to correctly restoring original (or at least very old) finishes, saving the patina (color acquired through the aging process) and crackled texture, called "craquelure". Thanks for sharing that! It tugs at particular strings of my past connected to a special place in my heart. If you have a copy of vol. II of Grant Walker's Books on the USNA Roger's collection, you will see a chapter on my restoration work on the 73-gun Spanish second rate "El Terrible". It landed in my lap (actually Don Preul, the curator of models put it out on the shop floor where I would literally trip over it) because the model's peculiar restoration problems were uniquely suited to my wheelhouse. Including preserving the craquelure of the ships painted bottom. There's a thread somewhere here on SOS on that particular restoration.

Peter,
You now sound more like a genuine "Renaissance Man" each time I learn more about your background. You've now given me another publication or two to secure a copy of too. Grant Walkers vol 1 and vol 2 of the US Naval Academy's Roger's collection. Your description of the painstakingly delicate restoration work you did sounds like it took calm patience. When I get a chance, I will also look up your restoration of El Terrible.

 

[ClipperFan]

Will there be a "Staghound" thread on SOS? I'm likely to get a set of plans just to have them. Sounds like a good candidate for a Seawatch books edition. No s**t, I'd approach them on the idea, it's what they do, after all! With your NRJ entries I believe you'd have a foot in the door! You even have the title!
I'm happy enough with my current Flying Cloud effort not to want to scrap it and start over. I'll be more than happy to root for Bill R. and William M. in that regard.

Peter,
Not surprisingly, you're not the first one to ask that question. I will seek out the advice of other well published authors and see how that process works. It would certainly be a thrill and God knows there's definitely enough material to work with. Meanwhile, here's a taste of what we're currently doing with McKay's premier extreme clipper  Staghound. It's an image of a large hull model crafted by Donald's son Cornelius. What makes this model truly different is how Cornelius describes it to Captn Arthur H Clark. He explains in his letter that his is the sole surviving authentic "Builder's" model. He knows this because he actually crafted it from mould lines taken off the lofting floor as the ship herself was under construction. That dates it to 1850! Next is Vladimir's cad sheer illustration showing how he's managed to match the McKay hull. One last revision to this is the mast rake is too extreme. Finally, my bow reconstruction incorporating navel hoods, cutwater and staghound figurehead. To find Rob's blog, although she was launched in 1850, she's actually listed in 1851+ scratchbuild logs.

 

[Peter Gutterman]

Will there be a "Staghound" thread on SOS? I'm likely to get a set of plans just to have them. Sounds like a good candidate for a Seawatch books edition. No s**t, I'd approach them on the idea, it's what they do, after all! With your NRJ entries I believe you'd have a foot in the door! You even have the title!
I'm happy enough with my current Flying Cloud effort not to want to scrap it and start over. I'll be more than happy to root for Bill R. and William M. in that regard.

Clarification: Happy to root for the two Williams building their Flying Cloud models (or whatever they choose) in whatever manner they choose to build them; kit or scratch. Either way I'm on board!

 

[Peter Gutterman]

I should think that the publisher and/or editor of the NRJ would provide all the recommendation needed for SeaWatch Books.

 

[ClipperFan]

I should think that the publisher and/or editor of the NRJ would provide all the recommendation needed for SeaWatch Books.

Peter,
That puts even more emphasis on my getting the second article out then. I, unfortunately am way behind on that. However, I am now more determined than ever to finish before next October submission deadline.