"Flying Cloud " by Mamoli - kit bash

Thanks in no small part to the interest, time and attention you and Rob have invested in my project and shared with the Clipper-Donald McKay fans at large who have been following along. Much to the mutual benefit of all concerned!;)

Pete
 
Peter Gutterman said:
Thanks, Bill. With all the research and background work going on between this log, Clippership Build Thoughts and Staghound, you (and Bill M.) should have a pretty good foundation to launch your own "Flying Cloud" builds from, without all the start-stop-and re-do hassle of this effort. That and with the impetus your own creativity and originality should make for a pretty pleasurable build experience, with lots of room for originality. I look forward to looking on! Thumbsup

Pete
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Maybe I'll take one of my several copies of the Bluejacket Flying Cloud plans and try to draw in the bow sub-forecastle section you are talking about. Can Rob or Rich post a sketch?
 
The anchor chains would have to run along the deck below the main deck from the chain locker to the Capstan machinery, wouldn't they?
 
Peter Gutterman said:
Maybe I'll take one of my several copies of the Bluejacket Flying Cloud plans and try to draw in the bow sub-forecastle section you are talking about. Can Rob or Rich post a sketch?
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Peter
Here's my finished concept sketch for the McKay clipper Stag Hound forecastle bulkhead. Rob pointed out that outer companions in my first sketch wouldn't leave sufficient room for ladders to below. Following his suggestion, I relocated them inward by one window. That opened up space for twin outer ladders placed where companions previously resided. Finally, the uppermost splash shield railing is reduced 4" to 14" high, bringing total fo'c'sle bulkhead height to 32", identical to the railing on the aft poop deck.
As Flying Cloud was most likely under construction while Stag Hound was just being finished in record time under 100 days per the signed contract, forecastle arrangement was quite likely the same for her as well. We know for a fact that Stag Hound was equipped with an 1850 Emerson-Walker patented iron geared windlass per McLean's description. Having such a heavy device on the main deck with only 4'9" clearance doesn't make sense. (We know that the decks were 3 & 1/2" thick, so the upper deck would have been 5'1/2". Michael Mjelde sent us proof that the underside of the fo'c'sle deck on Glory of the Seas was 5'9" while Duncan McLean listed her fo'c'sle deck height as 6'). The alternative is to mount the device 3' below the main deck. Now accommodations are also created for one watch of the crew. McKay's 'tween deck heights were consistently 7 feet high. It makes sense that he would provide identical space for his crew.
I realize this comes too late to help you modify your model, but I thought you'd appreciate knowing our reasoning for this substantive revision to McKay's fo'c'sle arrangements.

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09-05-2024 F'o'c'stle-Facadee.jpeg
 
I appreciate and find your reasoning to be perfectly..,well...reasonable.;) Hopefully this will prove helpful to the next generation of Flying Cloud models . I'm sure the two Bills are taking note. If I had been not so far behind the curve, I certainly would have done so. At least my model will have a believable, if not accurate as per the most recent scholarship, looking forecastle.
 
Peter Gutterman said:
I appreciate and find your reasoning to be perfectly..,well...reasonable.;) Hopefully this will prove helpful to the next generation of Flying Cloud models . I'm sure the two Bills are taking note. If I had been not so far behind the curve, I certainly would have done so. At least my model will have a believable, if not accurate as per the most recent scholarship, looking forecastle.
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Peter,
Things have been developing at "warp speed" since Rob, Vlad and I began our second McKay clipper build plans. What took us almost a year to develop is this time happening in a few short months. From our previously intense investigation, I feel we're just becoming more familiar with the world of Donald McKay's creations. Revelations just have come surprisingly quickly. To benefit those who are wanting to create more accurate models, I'm sharing these developments as we uncover them.
You're doing a beautiful job on your model and I'm sure you will be very proud of your final results.
 
ClipperFan said:
Peter,
Things have been developing at "warp speed" since Rob, Vlad and I began our second McKay clipper build plans. What took us almost a year to develop is this time happening in a few short months. From our previously intense investigation, I feel we're just becoming more familiar with the world of Donald McKay's creations. Revelations just have come surprisingly quickly. To benefit those who are wanting to create more accurate models, I'm sharing these developments as we uncover them.
You're doing a beautiful job on your model and I'm sure you will be very proud of your final results.
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Thanks, Rich (and Doc). Great detective work!
And for the appreciation and encouragement!
 
Pete! WOW! LOVE IT! Superb detail in the deck structures. I particularly like the chapeled mast!

You probably already have sources for the masting and rigging, so if this is not useful please keep it to yourself ROTF

As you know, I am trying to improve my efforts at historical accuracy. I have been studying. Here's what I have been studying and particular information I noticed about the masting and spar plan for Flying Fish.

FF1.jpgFF2.jpgFF3.jpgFF4.jpgFF5.jpg
 
The Gavel said:
Pete! WOW! LOVE IT! Superb detail in the deck structures. I particularly like the chapeled mast!

You probably already have sources for the masting and rigging, so if this is not useful please keep it to yourself ROTF

As you know, I am trying to improve my efforts at historical accuracy. I have been studying. Here's what I have been studying and particular information I noticed about the masting and spar plan for Flying Fish.

View attachment 469882View attachment 469883View attachment 469884View attachment 469885View attachment 469886
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clipperflyingfishtrace.jpg.12460f3e5284d536143fcc387f5784ec.jpg
 
To The Gavel and anyone else building the McKay clipper Flying Fish, here's an authentic tracing of her from the Bergen Sjoførtsmuseum, Bergen, Norway. It was published in a Ships of Scale magazine. It's important to know how to space her masts properly. Flying Fish had a main deck distance of 210' total between perpendiculars on deck. The sheerline molding is the 2nd lower line in this plan. It indicates where the main deck is located inside. From the inside of the stem, measure 52' to foremast center, from fore it's 62' to mainmast center, from main its 52' to mizzenmast center and from mizzen it's 44' to inside of sternpost. That's how you properly space the masts.
 
:eek: So much embarrassment! Pete! I guess I just saw Flying and didn't control for the number of Flying [fill in the blank] clipper ships there were. Flying Childers, Flying Dutchman, Flying Fish, Flying Mist and Flying Cloud. I filled in the blank with you. Effectively - Flying anything is the ship my buddy Pete is building.ROTF

So, here's the dope I have on the FLYING CLOUD


FC1.jpgFC2.jpgFC3.jpg
"ref. 4" is the Webb portfolio from 1895.
 
Pete!

I just looked at the Webb plans :rolleyes: The portfolio, OF COURSE, doesn't contain the Flying Cloud. Crothers, seems to have concluded that Flying Cloud (McKay) and Flying Dutchman (Webb) were enough alike to support his conclusion.

Here's a scan I made of the sail and spar plan for your convenience
 

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The Gavel said:
:eek: So much embarrassment! Pete! I guess I just saw Flying and didn't control for the number of Flying [fill in the blank] clipper ships there were. Flying Childers, Flying Dutchman, Flying Fish, Flying Mist and Flying Cloud. I filled in the blank with you. Effectively - Flying anything is the ship my buddy Pete is building.ROTF

So, here's the dope I have on the FLYING CLOUD


View attachment 469905View attachment 469906View attachment 469907
"ref. 4" is the Webb portfolio from 1895.
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The Gavel the two Bills and anyone else planning to model the Donald McKay clipper Flying Cloud. Lars Bruzelius has an excellent website where he has published dozens of The Boston Daily Atlas articles written by Duncan McLean. He's obviously been supplied precise and in-depth build specs from the shipyards themselves. Rob Wiederrich and I consider these articles practically gospel when it comes to historically accurate descriptions of the wonderous clippers. Here's a link to the April 25, 1851 article on Flying Cloud:

 
:eek: Next time I have 2 cents to add, I'll put it in my piggy bankROTF Pete! Thankfully you have ClipperFan's knowledge as a resource on your build!

BTW "The Gavel" is my call sign. You can call me Chuck.

Blessings!
 
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