HIGH HOPES, WILD MEN AND THE DEVIL’S JAW - Willem Barentsz Kolderstok 1:50

pingu57 said:
Heinrich my friend, i have'nt contributed much in your search of the true Willem Barents, due to the fact that i am always to late reading your ( and other ) posts, but i have a great admiration for your persistence in finding what you want to know.
After my catching up on your forum off the last few days, i have to say that i love how your windlass looks now your yourney has come at this point.
A pitty to hear about you mobile phone bye the way, did you forgot that they can't stand the washing machine??:eek::eek:
I do hope that the trip to your school turns out well, so you can return to the shipyard soon
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for the kind words Peter. I am also very happy that I have made a final decision and carried it out. Yes, the phone was a stupid and expensive thing to do.

About returning to the shipyard though - even if I did not have to go back to school, I was going to take a break after this. Being a student all over again is hard work.
 
RDN1954 said:
It's a frequently returning theme, here on SOS, the possibility of building a historical correct model.
Time and time again we have to face the undeniable; we can't build an accurate model and for a multitude of reasons. I'm suspecting that all the information we have available is subject to the same inaccuracies ánd what Paul @dockattner wrote, we fall victim to our own truth and only look for evidence, supporting that truth, simultaneously disregarding contradicting or unfavorable evidence.
That might even apply to scientists, responsible for collecting and interpreting all kinds of data and evidence; they are still people after all.
I find myself intrigued by the entire process; we are presented with a kit, based on a variety of data, only to come to the realisatio it impossibly could have worked like proposed. And then the search (and fun) begins. Also surprising is the ingenuity of many a modeler, the solutions they come up with to overcome the imposed challenges, brilliant!
Click to expand...
The fun certainly starts then Johan. I just realized something that is actually very funny! All this time, I have been debating the position of the windlass, BUT if the canopy was open indeed, then both possible options for the windlass position would have been feasible - not correct - but feasible. You just have to love it! ROTF
 
Heinrich said:
The fun certainly starts then Johan. I just realized something that is actually very funny! All this time, I have been debating the position of the windlass, BUT if the canopy was open indeed, then both possible options for the windlass position would have been feasible - not correct - but feasible. You just have to love it! ROTF
Click to expand...
And that's how we fall victim to accepting assumptions, without realizing it...
 
Hello All

And here is a classic example of interpretation/misinterpretation (you pick your choice.)

Earlier Ab wrote and I quote him verbatim:

" As for the windlass on Barentsz's ship: there is something unusual here. There are not many details of the ship elaborated in De Veer's journal, but as a historical exception this part is actually mentioned. In the early days of the wintering on Novaja Zemlya some of the crew went from the newly built cabin to the ship to gather some left over supplies. They appeared not to be completely on their own. A big polar bear was already aboard and the men did not know any better than... 'hiding behind the windlass'.
Now this really is some sort of a clue for how that windlass must have been positioned aboard the ship. In my reconstruction I placed it right behind the stem post, Gerald opted for the -behind the forecastle- option."

So let us look at the real journal.

Braetspit korrek.png


The underlined part (translated in English reads:

... and came daringly towards us to climb onto/into the front of the ship, but we had torn the sloop's cover sail and hiding behind it and the windlass with our four rifles, shot the bear ...

Now my dear friends - we can clearly see from this that the bear attempted to climb into the ship at THE BOW.

So logic begs the question: What good would hiding behind the windlass serve if that windlass was also mounted in the bow?

The defense rests its case!
 
Heinrich said:
Hello All

And here is a classic example of interpretation/misinterpretation (you pick your choice.)

Earlier Ab wrote and I quote him verbatim:

" As for the windlass on Barentsz's ship: there is something unusual here. There are not many details of the ship elaborated in De Veer's journal, but as a historical exception this part is actually mentioned. In the early days of the wintering on Novaja Zemlya some of the crew went from the newly built cabin to the ship to gather some left over supplies. They appeared not to be completely on their own. A big polar bear was already aboard and the men did not know any better than... 'hiding behind the windlass'.
Now this really is some sort of a clue for how that windlass must have been positioned aboard the ship. In my reconstruction I placed it right behind the stem post, Gerald opted for the -behind the forecastle- option."

So let us look at the real journal.

View attachment 305171


The underlined part (translated in English reads:

... and came daringly towards us to climb onto/into the front of the ship, but we had torn the sloop's cover sail and hiding behind it and the windlass with our four rifles, shot the bear ...

Now my dear friends - we can clearly see from this that the bear attempted to climb into the ship at THE BOW.

So logic begs the question: What good would hiding behind the windlass serve if that windlass was also mounted in the bow?

The defense rests its case!
Click to expand...
I so enjoyed reading the old Dutch! It's nothing like South African- or modern Dutch, but still readable ánd understandable.
 
dockattner said:
When men were MEN! I had to kill a mouse once...and wished I had a windlass to hide behind the whole time.
Click to expand...
Many years ago I had a face to face meeting with a local Black Bear. By mutual agreement the bear went in one direction and I went in the opposite direction. His interest at the time was in our bird feeder. I can't imagine having to hide behind any object on a very small ship while such a beast as a Polar Bear was looking for a meal.
 
Pathfinder65 said:
Many years ago I had a face to face meeting with a local Black Bear. By mutual agreement the bear went in one direction and I went in the opposite direction. His interest at the time was in our bird feeder. I can't imagine having to hide behind any object on a very small ship while such a beast as a Polar Bear was looking for a meal.
Click to expand...
Maybe he was just checking to see where they installed the windlass?
 
RDN1954 said:
I so enjoyed reading the old Dutch! It's nothing like South African- or modern Dutch, but still readable ánd understandable.
Click to expand...
Glad you enjoyed it Johan. It is absolutely readable and understandable - and clear in meaning ...;)....
 
Pathfinder65 said:
Many years ago I had a face to face meeting with a local Black Bear. By mutual agreement the bear went in one direction and I went in the opposite direction. His interest at the time was in our bird feeder. I can't imagine having to hide behind any object on a very small ship while such a beast as a Polar Bear was looking for a meal.
Click to expand...
I am very happy the détente worked for you Jan - otherwise I might have been the only one on SOS building a WB.
 
Maarten said:
Hi Heinrich. Great progress on the build sofar.
In respect to the windlass I would place it behind the fore castle, identical like on a fluyt.
With the windlass before the fore castle you are not able to place the poles for operating the windlass as these will hit the fore castle deck.
Secondly you need space around the windlass to operate it with some 4 man. Just behind the fore castle you have this space. Guess the people in the 16th century were also thinking practicle :)

See below a picture of a Dutch fluyt of 1636 in the Gulf of Finland. Hereyou see the windlass just behing the fore castle deck.
View attachment 301003
Click to expand...
Dear Maarten

You were so right about the position you suggested for the windlass. I do not know why I even bothered with research when I should just have followed your advice.
 
Heinrich said:
Dear Maarten

You were so right about the position you suggested for the windlass. I do not know why I even bothered with research when I should just have followed your advice.
Click to expand...
Almost invariably it pays to do your own research, if only to increase your understanding of the subject. Secondly, it's also worth to check and double check available information to confirm the accuracy of the information and,above all, for peace of mind.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top