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Wonderful Roger! Your post has made my day and is exactly the reason why I do what I do and why I put so much time and effort into this log. Comments and support like these make it all worthwhile.
HIGH HOPES, WILD MEN AND THE DEVIL’S JAW - Willem Barentsz Kolderstok 1:50
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Thank you, my dear friend. I will convey your wishes to Anna when I see her again on Tuesday, The Russians refer to Barentsz's ship by name, yes and they do so without any discussion and seemingly without any doubt. Unfortunately, because there is not even a discussion about the name, I do not know what their rationale is - that is still something that needs to be clarified. That caused me to re-read all my reports of De Veer (I have six different editions), Hulsius and Van Linschoten. In the English translation of De Veer's diary issued by the Hakluyt Society and edited by Dr. Charles Beke and Lieutenant Koolemans Beynen, I have found a footnote which I believe may hold the key to the answer, but before I can say anything about that, I first need to double check a few more editions and reports.
We’re anxiously waiting!
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4.30 in the morning and still going!
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More and more research great work Heinrich, I can't help getting the feeling they must have been tough men back then, I for one would not make the grade.
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Oh yes Richie!
I made a promise that I will not rest until I have the name of Barentsz's ship, and I am sticking to that promise. I am now very close to making my call as all my cross-references seem to check out very nicely. When all is said and done my conclusion will be a lot more plausible and "provable" (is there such a word?) than what has been on the table so far.Yes, my friend - they were very tough men. One so often hear words like "scurvy" being bandied around and we think we know what it means. However, we have no idea - heck, we complain about Covid! And scurvy was the very least of their troubles ... tough men indeed ...
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My friend I see now, I have only answered half of your question. If my research pans out and I come to the same conclusion as the Russians, there will for sure be another build - maybe not in the format you are used to, but yes.
Well now, my friend, i smell in your answers that some kind of scratchbuild is in order.
Excellent work if you can dig up the name of Willem Barentsz his vessel Heinrich, you are a true researcher, and in that case they will have to re-write the Dutch history books i think.
Excellent work if you can dig up the name of Willem Barentsz his vessel Heinrich, you are a true researcher, and in that case they will have to re-write the Dutch history books i think.
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Dear Peter. However much I would like to try my hand at a scratch-build, that is not within my means. I do not have the tools, the space for the tools, the time or the talent to do that. I would first have to find someone who can draw the plans for me from the drawings I have, and then see who can create a keel, stem, stern and bulkheads for me. The hull shape is crucial because that is where the biggest difference lies. And let me tell you one thing - if you look at De Veer's drawings and you look at the basic Russian design, you will exclaim "Bingo"!Well now, my friend, i smell in your answers that some kind of scratchbuild is in order.
Excellent work if you can dig up the name of Willem Barentsz his vessel Heinrich, you are a true researcher, and in that case they will have to re-write the Dutch history books i think.
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Dear Friends
And so, it starts. However, before I get to the actual report and my findings, I first want to introduce you to two additional sources I worked with. You will see that they both form an invaluable part of my research as they both deal with the First and Second expeditions which set the tone for the third one.
The first source (in no particular chronological order or order of importance).
Viermalige Reise durch das nördliche Eismeer: auf der Brigg Nowaja Semlja in den Jahren 1821 - 1824 Ausgeführt von Kapitain-Lieutenant Friedrich Litke (Edition Erdmann) (German Edition)
Who was Friedrich Litke?
Count Friedrich Lütke (Russified as Fyodor or Fedor Litke) came from a family of Baltic Germans. As a youth, Fyodor attended a Lutheran German-speaking school. His maternal language was German and he always spoke Russian with a German accent. He remained a practicing Lutheran.
Litke started his naval career in the Imperial Russian Navy in 1813. He took part in Vasily Golovnin's world cruise on the ship "Kamchatka" from 1817 to 1819. Then from 1821 to 1824, Litke led the expedition to explore the coastline of Novaya Zemlya, the White Sea, and the eastern parts of the Barents Sea. From August 20, 1826 to August 25, 1829, he headed the world cruise on the ship "Senyavin", sailing from Cronstadt and rounding Cape Horn.
In 1835 Fyodor Litke was appointed by Tsar Nicholas I of Russia as tutor of his second son, Grand Duke Constantine Nicholaievich of Russia. Litke was the first explorer to come up with the idea of a recording tide measurer (1839). They were built and installed along the coastlines of the Arctic Ocean and the Pacific Ocean in 1841. In addition, Litke was one of the organizers of the Russian Geographic Society and was its president in 1845–1850 and 1857–1872. He was appointed as Chairman of the Naval Scientific Committee in 1846. Litke was a commander-in-chief and a military governor of the ports of Reval (today's Tallinn) and later Kronstadt in 1850–1857. In 1855, Litke became a member of the Russian State Council (Государственный совет in Russian; a legislative entity that predated the Duma, which came into existence only in 1906).
In 1873, the Russian Geographical Society introduced the Litke gold medal. A cape, peninsula, mountain and bay in Novaya Zemlya, as well as a group of islands in Franz Josef Land, Baydaratskaya Bay, and the Nordenskiöld Archipelago and a strait between Kamchatka and Karaginsky Island, as well as two Russian icebreakers were named after him.
Source 2:
History of the Voyages and Discoveries made in the North. Translated from the German of Johann Reinhold Forster and elucidated by a New and Original Map of the Countries situated about the North Pole. Printed for Luke White, Dame Street, and Pat Byrne, Grafton Street, Dublin, 1786.
Who was Johann Reinhold Forster
Johann Reinhold Forster (1729-1798), was a Polish author and naturalist, who moved to England where he produced "A Catalogue of British Insects"(1770); in 1771 he wrote about North American flora and fauna; he translated Osbech's Voyage to China and used his knowledge of languages to make a living. These writings procured his election as a fellow of the Royal Society in 1772. An influential friend of Forster, Daines Barrington, was able to procure for him the position of scientist on James Cook’s second expedition, for which parliament had voted £4000. Forster seized his chance and took his son Georg as his assistant.
On the voyage, Forster bitterly complained of his accommodation, the indifference of Cook to 'the study of nature' and the envy and malevolence of his companions. He wrote, "it has always been the fate of science and philosophy to incur the contempt of ignorance". He carried out his observations most diligently.
Sandwich, at the Admiralty, was willing to help Forster publish a scientific volume, but, when the author refused to allow it to be 'edited', he was forbidden to publish anything until the official volumes of Cook’s travels appeared. In 1778 Forster published his own "Observations Made During a Voyage Round the World", on Physical Geography, Natural History, and Ethic Philosophy … a work of considerable scientific merit. This was supplemented by "Descriptiones Animalium Quae in Itinere ad Maris Australis Terras per Annos 1772 1773 et 1774 Suscepto Collegit Observavit et Delineavit Loannes" - Reinholdus Forster … posthumously published at Berlin in 1844.
Forster has been condemned as a man with a violent temper and impossible to work with, but this is perhaps too extreme. He returned to Germany and was appointed to a chair at the University of Halle. Before he died there on 9 December 1798, he translated, edited or reviewed many accounts of famous voyages including those of Willem Barentsz, Arthur Phillip, John Hunter and John White.
And so, it starts. However, before I get to the actual report and my findings, I first want to introduce you to two additional sources I worked with. You will see that they both form an invaluable part of my research as they both deal with the First and Second expeditions which set the tone for the third one.
The first source (in no particular chronological order or order of importance).
Viermalige Reise durch das nördliche Eismeer: auf der Brigg Nowaja Semlja in den Jahren 1821 - 1824 Ausgeführt von Kapitain-Lieutenant Friedrich Litke (Edition Erdmann) (German Edition)
Who was Friedrich Litke?
Count Friedrich Lütke (Russified as Fyodor or Fedor Litke) came from a family of Baltic Germans. As a youth, Fyodor attended a Lutheran German-speaking school. His maternal language was German and he always spoke Russian with a German accent. He remained a practicing Lutheran.
Litke started his naval career in the Imperial Russian Navy in 1813. He took part in Vasily Golovnin's world cruise on the ship "Kamchatka" from 1817 to 1819. Then from 1821 to 1824, Litke led the expedition to explore the coastline of Novaya Zemlya, the White Sea, and the eastern parts of the Barents Sea. From August 20, 1826 to August 25, 1829, he headed the world cruise on the ship "Senyavin", sailing from Cronstadt and rounding Cape Horn.
In 1835 Fyodor Litke was appointed by Tsar Nicholas I of Russia as tutor of his second son, Grand Duke Constantine Nicholaievich of Russia. Litke was the first explorer to come up with the idea of a recording tide measurer (1839). They were built and installed along the coastlines of the Arctic Ocean and the Pacific Ocean in 1841. In addition, Litke was one of the organizers of the Russian Geographic Society and was its president in 1845–1850 and 1857–1872. He was appointed as Chairman of the Naval Scientific Committee in 1846. Litke was a commander-in-chief and a military governor of the ports of Reval (today's Tallinn) and later Kronstadt in 1850–1857. In 1855, Litke became a member of the Russian State Council (Государственный совет in Russian; a legislative entity that predated the Duma, which came into existence only in 1906).
In 1873, the Russian Geographical Society introduced the Litke gold medal. A cape, peninsula, mountain and bay in Novaya Zemlya, as well as a group of islands in Franz Josef Land, Baydaratskaya Bay, and the Nordenskiöld Archipelago and a strait between Kamchatka and Karaginsky Island, as well as two Russian icebreakers were named after him.
Source 2:
History of the Voyages and Discoveries made in the North. Translated from the German of Johann Reinhold Forster and elucidated by a New and Original Map of the Countries situated about the North Pole. Printed for Luke White, Dame Street, and Pat Byrne, Grafton Street, Dublin, 1786.
Who was Johann Reinhold Forster
Johann Reinhold Forster (1729-1798), was a Polish author and naturalist, who moved to England where he produced "A Catalogue of British Insects"(1770); in 1771 he wrote about North American flora and fauna; he translated Osbech's Voyage to China and used his knowledge of languages to make a living. These writings procured his election as a fellow of the Royal Society in 1772. An influential friend of Forster, Daines Barrington, was able to procure for him the position of scientist on James Cook’s second expedition, for which parliament had voted £4000. Forster seized his chance and took his son Georg as his assistant.
On the voyage, Forster bitterly complained of his accommodation, the indifference of Cook to 'the study of nature' and the envy and malevolence of his companions. He wrote, "it has always been the fate of science and philosophy to incur the contempt of ignorance". He carried out his observations most diligently.
Sandwich, at the Admiralty, was willing to help Forster publish a scientific volume, but, when the author refused to allow it to be 'edited', he was forbidden to publish anything until the official volumes of Cook’s travels appeared. In 1778 Forster published his own "Observations Made During a Voyage Round the World", on Physical Geography, Natural History, and Ethic Philosophy … a work of considerable scientific merit. This was supplemented by "Descriptiones Animalium Quae in Itinere ad Maris Australis Terras per Annos 1772 1773 et 1774 Suscepto Collegit Observavit et Delineavit Loannes" - Reinholdus Forster … posthumously published at Berlin in 1844.
Forster has been condemned as a man with a violent temper and impossible to work with, but this is perhaps too extreme. He returned to Germany and was appointed to a chair at the University of Halle. Before he died there on 9 December 1798, he translated, edited or reviewed many accounts of famous voyages including those of Willem Barentsz, Arthur Phillip, John Hunter and John White.
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Dear Friends
I present to you the Russian Master Vladislav Zhdan (Владислав Ждан) - an artist who is specializing in medieval ships of the 15th and 16th Century and who has over the years developed his own, very unique style of modeling withh a strong emphasis on an authentic look and feel. Russian modelers have a widely used term - the Zhdan-style which is often copied. Thanks to @Walterone Vladimir who has introduced me to Vladislav, I have obtained his hand-made drawings which he used to build the ship of Barents. I am sure that all the "old hands" on the forum (@Jimsky ; @Uwek ; @Alexander74 ; and @shipphotographer.com ; will be well-acquainted with Vladislav.
This photograph of Zhdan was taken by our very own @Alexander74 Sasha at the 2014 Russian Championships.
As an example of his work, I include the following pictures for your pleasure (supplied to me by Vladimir).
In the next few days, Vladislav will send me all his photographs and soon as I have finished publishing my name findings, I will post the pictures.
I present to you the Russian Master Vladislav Zhdan (Владислав Ждан) - an artist who is specializing in medieval ships of the 15th and 16th Century and who has over the years developed his own, very unique style of modeling withh a strong emphasis on an authentic look and feel. Russian modelers have a widely used term - the Zhdan-style which is often copied. Thanks to @Walterone Vladimir who has introduced me to Vladislav, I have obtained his hand-made drawings which he used to build the ship of Barents. I am sure that all the "old hands" on the forum (@Jimsky ; @Uwek ; @Alexander74 ; and @shipphotographer.com ; will be well-acquainted with Vladislav.
This photograph of Zhdan was taken by our very own @Alexander74 Sasha at the 2014 Russian Championships.
As an example of his work, I include the following pictures for your pleasure (supplied to me by Vladimir).
In the next few days, Vladislav will send me all his photographs and soon as I have finished publishing my name findings, I will post the pictures.
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wow,
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Wow is the word, Jack!
Beautifull way of building, i wished i could build like that
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I agree, Peter. I can only look at work like that and stand amazed - and to think he doesn't use actual plans, just his handmade drawings!
That are nice ships, Heinrich. Yes, shipS. On the 3rd picture is a ship in the front with 2 shrouds at the front. In the background the one with the 5 shrouds. But both are beautiful!
Regards, Peter
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You are right, Peter - there are indeed two! To me what sets them apart is the level of realism and authenticity that is achieved.
That’s for sure. The more you look, the more you see. Outstanding!
Nice!
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Thank you, Hans. It is important to me that you like his work!
Nudge ... nudge ... wink ...