HIGH HOPES, WILD MEN AND THE DEVIL’S JAW - Willem Barentsz Kolderstok 1:50

Yes, she is a challenge.

First, I want to show you this superb build of the Willem Barentsz by Andre (Avado) on Modelbouwforum.nl

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Photograph: Andre (Avado)

Look now at the picture of his hull after it had just been closed up.

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Photograph: Andre (Avado): I am just showing you a small portion of the hull and the shape of the strakes that had to be conceived in order to close the hull successfully. That will hopefully give you some idea of what is involved.
I'm actually glad to see the closing strakes in this hull. I found myself having to do the very same thing with the Vasa, all the while thinking that somehow 'real' modelers don't have to do this. I have read that planks should never be less than fifty percent of their original width and I just don't see how that's always possible. Honing a strake on both sides down to a point, beveling the edges and making it fit glove like is very time consuming and in my case involving several do overs.
 
I'm actually glad to see the closing strakes in this hull. I found myself having to do the very same thing with the Vasa, all the while thinking that somehow 'real' modelers don't have to do this. I have read that planks should never be less than fifty percent of their original width and I just don't see how that's always possible. Honing a strake on both sides down to a point, beveling the edges and making it fit glove like is very time consuming and in my case involving several do overs.
I think its even deeper than that Daniel. Real shipbuilders probably don't break the rules - but we are pretend shipbuilders making tiny ships that fit on a table in our entryways or living rooms. Personally I agonized over my hull planking and looking at my ship today I can honestly say that no one will ever notice I did it right other than a real ship-builder or folks on this forum. I'm glad I fought for that and for the things I learned but have to admit it was for myself rather than necessary to build a beautiful model.
 
Hi Heinrich. Perhaps it is helpfull to make first from paper a strip. You can cut it little by little to get the right curves of the part you are making. Then you have something visual to help by fairing the wanted shape of the ship. It helped me a lot by the double curves at my Lee but also some parts of the BN.
But: I have great admiration for the approach taken to this challenge. And it will work!
Regards, Peter
Dear Peter. Thank you very much for your comment. Your observation about making paper templates is an excellent one and it is certainly a suggestion I would recommend to all builders out there. But ... I have found that with the Willem Barentsz, it is very difficult to work with templates because there is not a single flat part on the hull to work with below the wales. When trying to transfer the template onto wood you are doing so on a flat surface as you cannot possibly emulate the curvatures on this hull. Even the most carefully cut (according to the template) piece of wood is inaccurate when trying to fit it around a curvature or a vertical bend.

Also ... what do you get when you have a South African from Dutch descent??? Someone who doesn't follow rules or conventions! ROTF (You of all people will know this - just look at your Bluenose build and what happens when you have a Japanese saw in hand !) ROTF

Seriously though, it is excellent advice that will work very well on a slab-sided hull. Thumbsup
 
but we are pretend shipbuilders making tiny ships that fit on a table in our entryways or living rooms.
As a complete “Novice” contemplating a museum type build is way beyond my capabilities. For your first build and also my first build, we’ve learned that “the kit in a box” is just the basic starting point and can be transformed into something special. Granted every builder on this or other forums can point out the “errors” in their creations, but those who view the end result only see a completed build to be proudly displayed for years.

Jan
 
I'm actually glad to see the closing strakes in this hull. I found myself having to do the very same thing with the Vasa, all the while thinking that somehow 'real' modelers don't have to do this. I have read that planks should never be less than fifty percent of their original width and I just don't see how that's always possible. Honing a strake on both sides down to a point, beveling the edges and making it fit glove like is very time consuming and in my case involving several do overs.
Hello Daniel. Let me put your mind at ease straight away. Shaping planks to needle points and abandoning all planking "rules" does not make you any less of a modeler. The acid test in the end is how the model looks and whether or not you are happy with it. And let me tell you - as all real knowledgeable people on Dutch builds will tell you - in real life there were no rules as far as the Dutch were concerned. They used what planks they had available and if it was different on the one side compared to the other, then so be it. Like Hans said, very rarely was a hull truly symmetrical as ships were constructed from the shipwright's mind eye and experience - not from a rule book.

I will go out on limb that anyone who can build the Willem Barentsz without lost strakes, inserts and custom-shaped planks, is most welcome to show me how it is done. I say it is impossible. With this build I wanted to create the most fluent hull line that I could possibly plank. Up to this point I have done that, but I can also tell you that the picture below is the last picture in which you will see full-length planks. From this point onwards it's all smuggling with available spaces and visual appearance!

You can be so proud of your VASA - so please do not think because you have "broken" certain old-wives' tales, that you are not a modeler! I am about to do that without any concerns!

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I think its even deeper than that Daniel. Real shipbuilders probably don't break the rules - but we are pretend shipbuilders making tiny ships that fit on a table in our entryways or living rooms. Personally I agonized over my hull planking and looking at my ship today I can honestly say that no one will ever notice I did it right other than a real ship-builder or folks on this forum. I'm glad I fought for that and for the things I learned but have to admit it was for myself rather than necessary to build a beautiful model.
Hi Paul. You gave an excellent answer - except that Dutch shipbuilders very much broke the rules !!! ROTF In fact, there weren't any to begin with as far as they were concerned.

The second point where you hit the nail on the head is about the scale of our models. Thumbsup We cannot possibly emulate a build as it was done at the time. Just look at the Vasa and at how many different interpretations there are with regards to its build - let alone between different kit manufacturers of the same model. You wanted to build a beautiful model because that is what makes you happy - and in that - you have succeeded beyond beyond anyone's wildest dreams. I say this, because I certainly have not seen a more impressive interpretation of the Vasa than yours. That is what makes you happy and what makes you embrace this hobby.
 
As a complete “Novice” contemplating a museum type build is way beyond my capabilities. For your first build and also my first build, we’ve learned that “the kit in a box” is just the basic starting point and can be transformed into something special. Granted every builder on this or other forums can point out the “errors” in their creations, but those who view the end result only see a completed build to be proudly displayed for years.

Jan
Exactly Jan! Amen to that !!!Thumbsup
 
Hello Daniel. Let me put your mind at ease straight away. Shaping planks to needle points and abandoning all planking "rules" does not make you any less of a modeler. The acid test in the end is how the model looks and whether or not you are happy with it. And let me tell you - as all real knowledgeable people on Dutch builds will tell you - in real life there were no rules as far as the Dutch were concerned. They used what planks they had available and if it was different on the one side compared to the other, then so be it. Like Hans said, very rarely was a hull truly symmetrical as ships were constructed from the shipwright's mind eye and experience - not from a rule book.

I will go out on limb that anyone who can build the Willem Barentsz without lost strakes, inserts and custom-shaped planks, is most welcome to show me how it is done. I say it is impossible. With this build I wanted to create the most fluent hull line that I could possibly plank. Up to this point I have done that, but I can also tell you that the picture below is the last picture in which you will see full-length planks. From this point onwards it's all smuggling with available spaces and visual appearance!

You can be so proud of your VASA - so please do not think because you have "broken" certain old-wives' tales, that you are not a modeler! I am about to do that without any concerns!

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When following your build, one thing became clear to me: I'll stay away from building the "Witte Swaen" as far as I possibly can.
But again, I'm truly impressed!
In the mean I will continue my own struggles with the Bluenose...;)
 
It's actually quite a coincidence, but I want to share this with you. This afternoon I prepared three students who are going to study in Australia shortly. I taught the class at one of the parents' offices and as I walked out, I saw this beautiful motivational plaque against the wall.

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We are fond of saying: "You are the captain of your own ship", but after today, I will replace that with "Sail Your Dream"!
 
Hello Daniel. Let me put your mind at ease straight away. Shaping planks to needle points and abandoning all planking "rules" does not make you any less of a modeler. The acid test in the end is how the model looks and whether or not you are happy with it. And let me tell you - as all real knowledgeable people on Dutch builds will tell you - in real life there were no rules as far as the Dutch were concerned. They used what planks they had available and if it was different on the one side compared to the other, then so be it. Like Hans said, very rarely was a hull truly symmetrical as ships were constructed from the shipwright's mind eye and experience - not from a rule book.

I will go out on limb that anyone who can build the Willem Barentsz without lost strakes, inserts and custom-shaped planks, is most welcome to show me how it is done. I say it is impossible. With this build I wanted to create the most fluent hull line that I could possibly plank. Up to this point I have done that, but I can also tell you that the picture below is the last picture in which you will see full-length planks. From this point onwards it's all smuggling with available spaces and visual appearance!

You can be so proud of your VASA - so please do not think because you have "broken" certain old-wives' tales, that you are not a modeler! I am about to do that without any concerns!

View attachment 279300

Thank you, Heinrich, for your very kind and informative response to my planking statements. One day I will attempt a @dockattner style speling approach to this most difficult process, but it will have to be with very thin veneer on sub planking. In the meantime, I am learning from your examples here with the Willem Barentsz.

 
When following your build, one thing became clear to me: I'll stay away from building the "Witte Swaen" as far as I possibly can.
But again, I'm truly impressed!
In the mean I will continue my own struggles with the Bluenose...;)
Nooooo Johan. When you are finished with Bluenose, you and I (among others) still have to build the beautiful Fluit. And if you think the WB is a challenge .....
 
Definitely not an expert but what I have read regarding Dutch shipbuilding one thing I have learned is that there weren’t always drawings to go by which would lead me to believe there wasn’t any one rule to follow and it was up to the craftsmen and available wood supply that determined the methodology of a current shipyard build.
As they say “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder” and what I have seen with these build logs are things of beauty.
 
Definitely not an expert but what I have read regarding Dutch shipbuilding one thing I have learned is that there weren’t always drawings to go by which would lead me to believe there wasn’t any one rule to follow and it was up to the craftsmen and available wood supply that determined the methodology of a current shipyard build.
As they say “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder” and what I have seen with these build logs are things of beauty.
I once read, but can't find the evidence anymore, that the shipwrights determined length and width of a ship and that those dimensions determined all other dimensions, including for example the rope diameters. Anyone with source references?
 
Anyone with source references?
There are two main sources which give a bit of insight in the Dutch shipbuilding in the 17th century. Nicolaes Witsen and Cornelis van Yk both wrote a book about Dutch shipbuilding in the 17th century. The former curator of the Rijksmuseum, Ab Hoving, wrote a book in which he explained the works of Nicolaes Witsen. You should know that Witsen was a very educated man, but his style of writing was - to say the least - a bit confusing. When you try to read the original Witsen book (in old Dutch) you get lost very soon. Hoving managed to "open" the book and gave a clear explanation how ships where built - with the shipwrights (in Dutch bestekken or Certers, Charters or Cherters) as leading guide. These "bestekken" where contractual specifications about the length, width and depth of a ship, and if you combine this information with the method of construction as described by Witsen, you get a very large number of data about the ship, including diameters and lengths of masts, and the corresponding ropework. I don't know if this book is also available in English, but I will ask Ab Hoving.

Hans
 
There are two main sources which give a bit of insight in the Dutch shipbuilding in the 17th century. Nicolaes Witsen and Cornelis van Yk both wrote a book about Dutch shipbuilding in the 17th century. The former curator of the Rijksmuseum, Ab Hoving, wrote a book in which he explained the works of Nicolaes Witsen. You should know that Witsen was a very educated man, but his style of writing was - to say the least - a bit confusing. When you try to read the original Witsen book (in old Dutch) you get lost very soon. Hoving managed to "open" the book and gave a clear explanation how ships where built - with the shipwrights (in Dutch bestekken or Certers, Charters or Cherters) as leading guide. These "bestekken" where contractual specifications about the length, width and depth of a ship, and if you combine this information with the method of construction as described by Witsen, you get a very large number of data about the ship, including diameters and lengths of masts, and the corresponding ropework. I don't know if this book is also available in English, but I will ask Ab Hoving.

Hans
Hans,

Thank you very much for this info, it's appreciated.

Johan
 
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I was busy taking pictures as Hans was responding.
I recently purchased this book and highly recommend it to anyone interested in researching Dutch shipbuilding. It's 313 pages loaded with information.

Ron
Just as I was reading this post I got a reply from Ab Hoving - with this link:

It is the English version of the book I was refering to. It's not cheap though....
 
Hello Daniel. Let me put your mind at ease straight away. Shaping planks to needle points and abandoning all planking "rules" does not make you any less of a modeler. The acid test in the end is how the model looks and whether or not you are happy with it. And let me tell you - as all real knowledgeable people on Dutch builds will tell you - in real life there were no rules as far as the Dutch were concerned. They used what planks they had available and if it was different on the one side compared to the other, then so be it. Like Hans said, very rarely was a hull truly symmetrical as ships were constructed from the shipwright's mind eye and experience - not from a rule book.

I will go out on limb that anyone who can build the Willem Barentsz without lost strakes, inserts and custom-shaped planks, is most welcome to show me how it is done. I say it is impossible. With this build I wanted to create the most fluent hull line that I could possibly plank. Up to this point I have done that, but I can also tell you that the picture below is the last picture in which you will see full-length planks. From this point onwards it's all smuggling with available spaces and visual appearance!

You can be so proud of your VASA - so please do not think because you have "broken" certain old-wives' tales, that you are not a modeler! I am about to do that without any concerns!

View attachment 279300
What I am doing currently on the NL, is I divided the lower hull into 4 belts of planks. First I divided it in half, then I divided each half into two. With the 4 belts, I used graphic tape and followed the tick marks on the mid frames, but adjusted at the bow and stern to make sure the planks would follow a more natural curve. Then I saw that each belt required a different taper at the bow and stern to maintain the flow of planks without causing issues or leaving me with any fill in planks. There will have to be some stealers at the stern obviously. I then marked the belts from the tape to the frames and removed the tape.
In theory, this approach should ensure you always have full planks that run from bow to stern, and the only unnaturally shaped plank will be the garboard plank. We shall see if I can make it happen! ;)
 
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