Iutar,
Yah.. you are right ....Black painted boats...
But, are the blue and red correct by your opinion?
Yah.. you are right ....Black painted boats...
But, are the blue and red correct by your opinion?
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HMS Agamemnon by Caldercraft
- Thread starter HMSFly
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- agamemnon caldercraft
There are some interesting points.
Perhaps this painting isn't what we need either.
First,
why is such an iconic image of a famous ship unknown and unreported? Mark, provide a link to this painting, and I'll try to figure it out.
Secondly,
So, the ship was launched on April 10, 1781. But the trees are full of green leaves, the bushes are abundantly green, the grass is growing, and yellow rye is visible. This is the second half of summer.
Thirdly,
The ship's paintwork is consistent with the period, but not everywhere. We see that the friezes on the sides are not decorated. The Admiralty gave permission to omit the friezes in 1780. But why then is there still an ornament painted on the stern under the lower windows?
In addition, the Admiralty ordered that ships' names be written on the frieze under the lower windows in 1771. Initially, the letters were combined with ornaments, but then, from 1780, only the letters remained on the stern frieze. The painting depicts the decor under the lower windows, as if the events took place before 1771.
This is very strange.
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See, Iutar, so many doubts...And sorry for asking so many questions.
I could paint the whole thing black and yellow, but...I'd like to get to the bottom of it...I want to know exactly what's going on.
Yes, this was a common pattern until 1780, when the Admiralty abandoned the variety for the sake of economy and simplification.
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Even if there had been a red stripe, it's unlikely it was restored during repairs after the first battle. There's no red stripe in Pocock's painting.
I also notice in this photo that the steps on the main wales aren't painted black. But the biggest mistake (I completely forgot to mention) is the black gun port caps. Black boats and black gun port caps wouldn't appear until the 19th century.
Mark, I've been looking at photos of some of the assembled Agamemnon models and I have some notes.
1. As always, Chris Watton designed the capstand on the model incorrectly. Again, like on Diana's model, the ribs are too narrow, and there's some kind of circle at the bottom. They need to be redesigned. Also pay attention to the photos of the deck, what the capstand support looks like.
1. As always, Chris Watton designed the capstand on the model incorrectly. Again, like on Diana's model, the ribs are too narrow, and there's some kind of circle at the bottom. They need to be redesigned. Also pay attention to the photos of the deck, what the capstand support looks like.
Кабестан мог быть выполнен с ручками или без них. Ручки были настолько длинными, что для поворота кабестана приходилось отводить пушки назад (Б. Лавери).
The capstan could be made with or without handles. The handles were so long that the cannons had to be pulled back to turn the capstan (B. Lavery).
2. Распространённая ошибка всех сборных моделей: толстые ступеньки для лестниц. Марк, если сделаешь ступеньки тоньше, модель станет выглядеть ещё лучше и будет похожа на копию.
2. A common mistake with all kit models: thick stair treads. Mark, if you make the treads thinner, the model will look even better and more like a replica.
The capstan could be made with or without handles. The handles were so long that the cannons had to be pulled back to turn the capstan (B. Lavery).
2. Распространённая ошибка всех сборных моделей: толстые ступеньки для лестниц. Марк, если сделаешь ступеньки тоньше, модель станет выглядеть ещё лучше и будет похожа на копию.
2. A common mistake with all kit models: thick stair treads. Mark, if you make the treads thinner, the model will look even better and more like a replica.
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3. Another common mistake with kit-models is a thick cutwater. The cutwater should taper in a ratio of 2 to 5 (2/5). The edges of the cutwater should be rounded.
The thick cutwater looks ridiculous; it creates a lot of drag, as if it were taken from an icebreaker. The figureheads of KIT models also look terrifying because of the thick cutwater, as if they were being tortured by the Inquisition. Important: the cutwater narrowed not only from the stem forward, towards the figurehead, but also from the bottom up, from the waterline (see the last photo).
The thick cutwater looks ridiculous; it creates a lot of drag, as if it were taken from an icebreaker. The figureheads of KIT models also look terrifying because of the thick cutwater, as if they were being tortured by the Inquisition. Important: the cutwater narrowed not only from the stem forward, towards the figurehead, but also from the bottom up, from the waterline (see the last photo).
5. Don't make these railings at all. In reality, they installed removable posts there and strung rope lines through them.
Museum models traditionally show the removable iron stanchions and their rope rails removed—they look better without them.
The photo of the Victory actually shows the upper deck (dark because of the awning over the waist). The railing consists of metal stanchions and rope rails with nets.
The ladders on the upper deck could be closed with gratings. Only the captain's ladder on the quarterdeck had wooden posts and wooden rails. They were shaped, ornamented, varnished, and finished to resemble precious wood.
I'll tell you more about the errors I found later.
Museum models traditionally show the removable iron stanchions and their rope rails removed—they look better without them.
The photo of the Victory actually shows the upper deck (dark because of the awning over the waist). The railing consists of metal stanchions and rope rails with nets.
The ladders on the upper deck could be closed with gratings. Only the captain's ladder on the quarterdeck had wooden posts and wooden rails. They were shaped, ornamented, varnished, and finished to resemble precious wood.
I'll tell you more about the errors I found later.
Dear Iutar,
Yes I remeber this: you made this remark for the Diana.. but is was too late.
This time I will take your comment in account, off course.
Thx
Always happy to help!
You can take photos of the parts from the instructions and show them here, and I'll tell you if they're correct. I don't have the blueprints for this assembly model, so it's hard for me to predict the error, as happened with Diana.
1771: The initial order mandated that ship names be painted on the stern in letters one foot high and enclosed in a compartment.
1772: A follow-up order refined the instructions, requiring the names to be painted without a compartment and in letters as large as the counter would allow.
1782: The Admiralty officially rescinded the orders, meaning that names were commonly painted on sterns for only a ten- to eleven-year period. Some admirals, such as Keppel in 1778, had already been known to remove the names for tactical reasons.
So for HMS Eggs and Bacon (Agamemnon), you have choices as she was launched when lettering without the compartment was still approved and could have been as large as 24 inches high, or more, if on the lower counter, which I think was about 27 inches high. IF her captain followed orders, she would not have her name at all starting in 1782 but not everyone did as the Admiralty ordered or they did not get the word for a long period of time. She sailed for the West Indies early in 1782 so might have carried her name until repaired in 1783 and then laid up in ordinary in 1784 for the next 9 years. I would bet she did not have her name on the stern when recommissioned and under Nelson's command in 1793. An option is to have a nice engraved name plate attached to the display stand, but I get it that some builders want it on the model itself.
Allan
I'm so glad you're back in the game with your advice...welcome back!
Dear Iutar
Done!
Done!
You are one in probably 1000 (or moreDone!
) to take the time to get it right. Kudos!! Great to hear you went the extra mile (1.60934km)Allan
It's actually very easy to sharpen a standard water cutter from a kit. Here's how I did it. You'll need graph paper. I don't know what it's called in Belgium. This is what it looks like:
Let's take the water cutter from the Agamemnon kit. Let's say it's 5 mm thick and made of American walnut.
We know that at the very bottom, near the keel, the water cutter shaft reservoir is as thick as the keel and stem, or 5 mm. And in the upper bow area, it's 2 mm.
But the leading edge of the cutter shaft has a complex shape.
Cut out a long and wide strip from millimeter paper, whichever is more convenient for you. We press a strip of millimeter paper tightly to the front edge of the water cutter, and mark the upper and lower points on the paper.
We know that at the bottom we have 5 mm, at the top we have 2 mm. We make marks and draw lines.
We cut out the resulting strip and glue it to the front edge of the cutter, strictly observing symmetry.
Similarly, we make the same paper on top of the water cutter.
Once we glue the strips on top and in front of the water cutter, we will have a perfect fence, and we can safely work with a needle file or a rasp without fear that the water cutter will turn out crooked.
Let's take the water cutter from the Agamemnon kit. Let's say it's 5 mm thick and made of American walnut.
We know that at the very bottom, near the keel, the water cutter shaft reservoir is as thick as the keel and stem, or 5 mm. And in the upper bow area, it's 2 mm.
But the leading edge of the cutter shaft has a complex shape.
Cut out a long and wide strip from millimeter paper, whichever is more convenient for you. We press a strip of millimeter paper tightly to the front edge of the water cutter, and mark the upper and lower points on the paper.
We know that at the bottom we have 5 mm, at the top we have 2 mm. We make marks and draw lines.
We cut out the resulting strip and glue it to the front edge of the cutter, strictly observing symmetry.
Similarly, we make the same paper on top of the water cutter.
Once we glue the strips on top and in front of the water cutter, we will have a perfect fence, and we can safely work with a needle file or a rasp without fear that the water cutter will turn out crooked.