This is not sarcasom at all ,it is plain rude not a constructive critisism!!
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Hi, Allan! Judging by the width and size of these boats, I don’t think one person could row from both sides at once. So, it’s definitely double‑banked.
Best regards,
Alexey
You made some very nice little boats, ‘Frecap’.
Regards, Peter
Hi, Peter! Thank you for the feedback!
Best regards,
FriCap
Алексей, слушай, ну, я откопал Анатомию Беллоны Брайана Лэвери, там все шлюпки с тонкими планширями показаны. А ты, вообще, какие шлюпки планируешь поставить на модель? По идее, у тебя модель по состоянию на 1778, то есть, Регламент 1775 года будет?
Alexey, listen, I dug up Brian Lavery’s *Anatomy of the Bellona*, and it shows all the boats with thin gunwales. What kind of boats are you actually planning to put on the model? In principle, since your model represents the ship as it was in 1778, it will be based on the Admiralty regulations of 1775, right?
Alexey, listen, I dug up Brian Lavery’s *Anatomy of the Bellona*, and it shows all the boats with thin gunwales. What kind of boats are you actually planning to put on the model? In principle, since your model represents the ship as it was in 1778, it will be based on the Admiralty regulations of 1775, right?
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Я не заморачивался точной исторической достоверностью шлюпок. Главное, чтобы они были в принципе, соответствовали размеру и форме. У Лэвери я руководствовался этой картинкой. Предполагаю сделать пять шлюпок, для начала хотя бы три.
I didn’t worry about the exact historical accuracy of the lifeboats. The main thing is that they’re there in principle and match the right size and shape. For Lavery, I went by this picture. I’m planning to make five lifeboats; to start with, at least three.
Thanks for posting all the drawings Igor. One does stand out though. Pinnaces were single banked nearly all the time. Even if they would have been made double banked they were not set up with tholes such that there were thwarts with no thole at all. I fully understand how this mistake is made as the contemporary plans can cause confusion when they show only one side in the profile view.
Allan
This picture has four thwarts with no way to row.
The drawing below shows the tholes on the one side. Some have assumed there was one for the same thwart on the opposite side, but that was not done.
Another pinnace plan with more detail showing the alternating tholes on the profile view compared to the top view. There are a lot of pinnace drawings that do not show the tholes at all but that does not mean they were not there.
Allan
This picture has four thwarts with no way to row.
The drawing below shows the tholes on the one side. Some have assumed there was one for the same thwart on the opposite side, but that was not done.
Another pinnace plan with more detail showing the alternating tholes on the profile view compared to the top view. There are a lot of pinnace drawings that do not show the tholes at all but that does not mean they were not there.
I agree. If single banked there was one rower with one oar on each thwart. One rower sat on the port side with the oar out the starboard side to get maximum leverage and the adjsacent thwart had a rower on the opposite side. For long boats and other wider boats that are double banked there were two rowers per thwart.
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Дорогой Аллан! Да, на том рисунке ошибка. Мы когда-то уже разбирали её. А вот, как выглядит этот пинас вживую (черно-коричневый). Именно его нарисовали на том рисунке.
Dear Allan! Yes, there is a mistake in that drawing. We discussed it some time ago. Here is what that pinnace actually looks like (black-and-brown). That is the exact one depicted in the drawing.
Dear Allan! Yes, there is a mistake in that drawing. We discussed it some time ago. Here is what that pinnace actually looks like (black-and-brown). That is the exact one depicted in the drawing.
Thank you all for participating in this discussion! As I said earlier, at first I didn’t put too much thought into the boats. I picked options that seemed appropriate to me and assembled them with some modifications. Actually, this ship isn’t my first model. Back in my youth, I started building a Golden Hind, but never finished it. It’s still waiting for its time. When I started working on the Bellona, I didn’t expect to go beyond the Corel project scope. But as the build progressed, I grew more interested in the historical aspects, detailing, and aesthetics. I wanted to make a beautiful model. Unfortunately, some mistakes I made at the beginning only become apparent now, and I’m looking for ways to fix them. It’s the same with the boats: I decided not to overcomplicate the hull lines, but I still wanted them to look like the originals. Honestly, before Igor’s rather passionate input, I hadn’t really considered that the gunwale looks too bulky for this scale. Although I was a bit taken aback by his tone at first, he’s basically right, and I’m grateful for his comments and the photos he shared. This detail shouldn’t be overlooked — the boats are clearly in plain view. I blindly trusted the kit manufacturer, even though I ended up modifying their parts anyway. At this stage, though, it’s not critical, and the modifications aren’t too complicated. One thing that bothers me, and that no one seemed to mention, is that the thwarts are positioned too high above the floorboards. That’s because, when scaling things down, I glued the side benches according to the instructions, but they should have been lower. I won’t fix that now; I’ll just leave it as it is. I’m also very grateful to Allan! Before his question, I didn’t even know about the terms “single banked” and “double banked,” and I might have given a wrong answer because I didn’t understand them right away. Allan, what I meant was that I thought there should be more than one rower per thwart, but after your explanation, I see I might be mistaken. Anyway, on the pinnace, the rowers were probably arranged as shown in the photo you posted. So, is it single banked? With this arrangement, the rowlocks should be offset on the starboard and port sides. The pinnace is a little over two meters wide. But how were they arranged on the longboat, which is 3.2 m wide? Probably, there were two rowers per thwart (double banked), right? Since I’m already modifying the gunwale, I’d like to get the rowlocks positioned correctly too!
Алексей, с баркасами всё просто: это основные рабочие лошадки, главные грузовые шлюпки, поэтому они имели по гребцу с каждого борта на каждой банке. Это из-за того, что грузы были слишком тяжелые (якоря, пушки, бочки, рангоут и тд). Баркасы специально строились очень прочными и широкими, и два гребца спокойно умещались и не мешали друг другу.
Alexey, it’s simple when it comes to longboats: they were the primary workhorses—the main cargo boats—so they carried a rower on each side of every thwart. This was because the loads were very heavy (anchors, cannons, barrels, spars, and so on). These boats were built to be exceptionally sturdy and wide, allowing two rowers to sit comfortably side-by-side without getting in each other's way.
Игорь, благодарю за фотки и объяснения!
Igor, thank you for the photos and explanations!
Igor, thank you for the photos and explanations!
For the future, there were a good number of methods and configurations. This was given to me a number of years ago, I wish I could remember who and give them credit for putting this together. Note that the gunwale is solid and there is no sheer/cap on top.
Allan
Hi everyone!
I’ve replaced the bulwark on the pinnace. I cut off the wide one and installed a thin one made from a 1×1 mm strip.
Here’s how the pinnace looks now next to the longboat, whose bulwark hasn’t been replaced yet.
I’ve replaced the bulwark on the pinnace. I cut off the wide one and installed a thin one made from a 1×1 mm strip.
Here’s how the pinnace looks now next to the longboat, whose bulwark hasn’t been replaced yet.
Great work
Well done Alex! Magic Mike
I’ve reworked the bulwarks on both boats.
Now I need to make the rowlocks and paint the boats. According to Lavery’s The Anatomy, the pinnace had a stern splashboard, and apparently a bow one as well.
But were splashboards not installed on longboats?
Moreover, for example, the photo shows the protruding elements: the gunwale and the lower wale. Apparently, they need to be highlighted in some way?
Now I need to make the rowlocks and paint the boats. According to Lavery’s The Anatomy, the pinnace had a stern splashboard, and apparently a bow one as well.
But were splashboards not installed on longboats?
Moreover, for example, the photo shows the protruding elements: the gunwale and the lower wale. Apparently, they need to be highlighted in some way?
Алексей, у 28-ф пинасов все варианты были. И без волноотбойников, и с волноотбойником только в корме, и с волноотбойником в носу, и, наконец, с волноотбойниками по всей длине корпуса. Для периода восьмидесятых-девяностых делай волноотбойники в корме и в носу. Отбойники по всей длине корпуса появятся позже.
Alexey, the 28-foot pinnaces featured all these configurations: without spray rails, with spray rails only at the stern, with spray rails at the bow, and finally, with spray rails running the full length of the hull. For the 1780s and 1790s, model them with spray rails at the stern and bow; full-length spray rails appeared later.
Alexey, the 28-foot pinnaces featured all these configurations: without spray rails, with spray rails only at the stern, with spray rails at the bow, and finally, with spray rails running the full length of the hull. For the 1780s and 1790s, model them with spray rails at the stern and bow; full-length spray rails appeared later.
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Hi Fri Cap, I’m absolutely thrilled with your beautiful build—the dinghies are outstanding. In fact, your entire research is very impressive. I’ve only just discovered your build log and plan to study it carefully at my leisure in the coming days. I wish you continued success and enjoyment with your project.
Best regards, Holger
Best regards, Holger