HMS Royal William 1719 1:55 by OlegM

OlegM said:
Lifts (топенанты)? No, I don't think so. Topgallant lifts are on the photo, as usual. Royal sails? No, there should be no royal sails at this time, and there's no other attributes of these sails present.
Maybe it's leech lines, which didn't have blocks on the yard and went directly to the trestletrees? That's why they are directly attached to the yard on the model due to absence of sails (line bowlines)

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нет нет, ты не понял, в 17м веке бом-брамсель был очень маленьким, не имел брасов и шкотов, в сложеном виде крепился к брам-вантам, шкотовые углы крепились к брам-рею, топенант был скользящим, примерно как на фото, а у брамселя не было бык-горденей

no, no, you didn't understand, in the 17th century, the topsail was very small, had no braces and sheets, when folded it was attached to the shrouds, the sheet corners were attached to the topsail, and the top was sliding, about as in the photo
 
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DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
That appears to be where the buntlines for the sail are temporarily tied to the yard when the sail was removed. @OlegM : The buntlines are those attached to the foot (bottom edge) of the sail, whereas the leech lines were attached to the leeches of the sail, which are the side edges. ....
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Oh yes, I confused leech lines and buntlines
 
Vitaly Makhorsky said:
in the 17th century, the topsail was very small, had no braces and sheets,
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Vitaly
In the book The Master Shipwright's Secrets by Richard Endsor, on page 243, it shows no braces but it does show sheets for both the top sails and topgallant sails on Tyger 1647. In the Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War, 1625-1860 James Lees states the sheets were little changed throughout the period of the book for the topsails. Royal William may have been different than other ships, but how were the clews held down if there were no sheets?
Allan
 
AllanKP69 said:
Vitaly
In the book The Master Shipwright's Secrets by Richard Endsor, on page 243, it shows no braces but it does show sheets for both the top sails and topgallant sails on Tyger 1647. In the Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War, 1625-1860 James Lees states the sheets were little changed throughout the period of the book for the topsails. Royal William may have been different than other ships, but how were the clews held down if there were no sheets?
Allan
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Just to correct the confusion:
From Vitaly russian text I know what he was talking about, the english translation is not correct. He was describing a royal sail installed without a yard (not topsail or topgallant)
 
Vitaly Makhorsky said:
нет нет, ты не понял, в 17м веке бом-брамсель был очень маленьким, не имел брасов и шкотов, в сложеном виде крепился к брам-вантам, шкотовые углы крепились к брам-рею, топенант был скользящим, примерно как на фото, а у брамселя не было бык-горденей

no, no, you didn't understand, in the 17th century, the topsail was very small, had no braces and sheets, when folded it was attached to the shrouds, the sheet corners were attached to the topsail, and the top was sliding, about as in the photo
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Hmmm... Royal sail.. I don't know. I think the person who did the rigging here, was trying to show topgallant buntlines, which by the way doesn't necessarily mean he was right. The topgallant buntlines are quite questionable. I will omit this line on my model
 
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OlegM said:
describing a royal sail installed without a yard
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Hi Oleg,
I think you are correct, the translation factor has come into play here. I suspect your above comment is a translation issue, but if not, how is a royal rigged without a yard? According to what I could research, royal sails had braces, bowlines, lifts, clue lines, sheets, earrings, robands or harbor gaskets and sometimes had footropes but did not have buntlines . If they had footropes and robands or harbor gaskets there had to be a yard to which they were tied.

Allan
 
AllanKP69 said:
Hi Oleg,
I think you are correct, the translation factor has come into play here. I suspect your above comment is a translation issue, but if not, how is a royal rigged without a yard? According to what I could research, royal sails had braces, bowlines, lifts, clue lines, sheets, earrings, robands or harbor gaskets and sometimes had footropes but did not have buntlines . If they had footropes and robands or harbor gaskets there had to be a yard to which they were tied.

Allan
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Well my english text is correct, that's maybe more my own understanding mistake of the topic. When Vitaly was describing a flying royal - me, for some reason, imagined a triangular sail installed on top of the mast (see picture below) - so that's why I said "without a yard". However, now I think that that's not exactly what Vitaly meant - most prabably, he didn't want to say that there was no yard, what he meant is that at this period of time the flying royal had a significantly simplified rigging - no braces, no parrel, no sheets (the clues of the sail were just hooked to the topgallant yard below).
As to personnaly me, I honestly doubt about the very existance of the royal sail during this period of time... I need to read more about his topic.

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Wow Oleg. I had some catching up to do and was just in time to see the model finished.
Congratulations on finishing this wonderful detailed model. Very impressive and inspiring.

Looking forward to the photo's with clean background.
 
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