Building a good model is 70% planning, 29% building, and (hopefully) 1% fixing screwups.
HMS Sovereign of the Seas - Bashing DeAgostini Beyond Believable Boundaries
- Thread starter DARIVS ARCHITECTVS
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Yes, spar decks were a real thing in the 1630's. They were an alternative to nets, but may have been solid wood or wood plus netting, and you could walk on them. This was when boarding was a more common tactic and gunnery less so. That changed in the later 17th century. The Annapolis model shows the most practical guess as to what the spar deck looked like on the Sovereign if it were all wood. Take a look at the HMS Prince Royal in 1613 and you will see the spar deck with netting that sailors could still walk on. This seems to be the same method used on the Sovereign. It could be simulated with fine mesh painted to look like rope netting on the model. A lattice of very thin sticks could be used to support the netting. I imagine in real life that a lattice of 8cm x 8cm poles would provide enough support for the netting for people to confidently walk on. It would be far more difficult for boarders to cut through also than just a net. An all wood lattice like on the Annapolis model would be VERY cumbersome to erect and disassemble when you think about it. The light spars with netting over the top seems the best and most practical method.
Hey.. check out all the funny hats. They DID like their hats back then, didn't they?
I noticed this too. NO LADDERS between the waist and upper forecastle, and only one door leading into the forecastle. This is on another English man of war from the painting from 1613. Good circumstantial information to use.
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Thank you Uwek! You always come through with lots of information and it is so very appreciated!
Where do you guys find out all this information?, I've been misguidedly using the Sovereign of the Seas 1637 book thinking it was accurate. The next build I undertake I will definitely have to do more research but wheres the best place to start?.
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Here in this forum, start a buildlog and ask what you want to know. The answers will come.
Start HERE, searching for build logs of the ship of interest. We scour the bowels of the internet and libraries, and some visit museums and bring back photos from ship-related sources like old paintings. We also gather information from the collections of other builders. I found that answers to questions come faster with questions on the forum than pouring through piles of books, but you get most of your information from those books. We share book references and book reviews on the forum also, so you get lots of information on where to find more books to add to your personal reference shelf. The forum can also help you determine if a certain model ship kit feature is accurate historically. All you need to do is post questions, which newcomers often fear to do for some reason. For me, this forum is my version of social media, without the useless stupidity you see on TikTok.
Scour the Bowels would be an excellent band name.Start HERE, searching for build logs of the ship of interest. We scour the bowels of the internet and libraries, and some visit museums and bring back photos from ship-related sources like old paintings. We also gather information from the collections of other builders. I found that answers to questions come faster with questions on the forum than pouring through piles of books, but you get most of your information from those books. We share book references and book reviews on the forum also, so you get lots of information on where to find more books to add to your personal reference shelf. The forum can also help you determine if a certain model ship kit feature is accurate historically. All you need to do is post questions, which newcomers often fear to do for some reason. For me, this forum is my version of social media, without the useless stupidity you see on TikTok.
Well, we have SOME stupidity . . .
Kurt,
Spent some time catching up - As always very well researched work!! -
Regards,
Spent some time catching up - As always very well researched work!! -
Regards,
Thanks buddy! I'm in the doldrums again, trying to figure out what to do next. I don't know what goes inside the forecastle on the main deck. I know that they have to cook their food there, and the galley is in there, but how to construct the oven and other interior parts? I have no idea what things look like in there. Any ideas are welcome. The same goes for the interior of the half deck and later the quarterdeck. The idea is to have the ship's interior ready for action, so most if not all of the interior dividing walls would have been dismantled or folded out of the way of the guns. There are many later examples, such as HMS Victory, but aside from Wasa, no examples to base the interior decoration off for a Baroque era ship.
Incredible close-ups, Kurt! I will add these to my archives.
Good morning Kurt- I’m going to have to rethink my percentages.....especially the 1%. . Got plenty of the redos at present. God advice tho Thanks. Cheers Grant
It’s like a stealer plank.
I like your third hand. It looks like a robot.
It’s actually USEFUL social media.Start HERE, searching for build logs of the ship of interest. We scour the bowels of the internet and libraries, and some visit museums and bring back photos from ship-related sources like old paintings. We also gather information from the collections of other builders. I found that answers to questions come faster with questions on the forum than pouring through piles of books, but you get most of your information from those books. We share book references and book reviews on the forum also, so you get lots of information on where to find more books to add to your personal reference shelf. The forum can also help you determine if a certain model ship kit feature is accurate historically. All you need to do is post questions, which newcomers often fear to do for some reason. For me, this forum is my version of social media, without the useless stupidity you see on TikTok.
It occurred to me that much of what went into constructing HMS Sovereign of the Seas first went into building the HMS Prince Royal. I knew of a painting,
The Arrival of the Elector Frederick V of the Palatinate and Elizabeth Stuart in flushing on 29 April 1613 by Hendrick Cornelisz Vroom, and found a high resolution copy of it HERE. You have to click or "Original File" to get the full sized image. There are several other great ship art pictures there also, so dig around in that link and see what you come up with. Suffice to say, high resolution images of European paintings are scarce of the internet, and zooming in will review ship details like the makeup of spar decks and other features. If you surf the web hard enough, and get clever using a search engine, you can find some gems once in a while.
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I picked up this folder which contains small parts containers off Amazon and started using it for blocks, deadeyes, and all the other small ship modelling parts. It sits on the bookshelf when not it use. A sliding locking level and lid edges of the compartments that overlap the sides of each box ensure that tiny parts won't leak out of the boxes and prevents them from being accidentally opened.
Some small but delicate work was done on the ladderways. I picked up some tiny 0.6mm model detailing chain from the hobby store, not knowing what I would use it for, but knowing it was too cool to pass up. It's used for small scale plastic model battleships. I was pondering how to finish the ladder railings when I remembered having the chain. So, after resizing the loops on some eyebolts, three sets of safety chains were made and installed on the weather deck. Perhaps they are too modern, but the ship needs to be able to grate over the ladder in the main deck in bad weather, so making safety chains as guards around open hatches and these ladders makes sense. If they are too modern, and one of you fellows knows more about what type of railings should go there from some historical reference, I could always replaced them and use the chain for something else. I'm hoping one of you has pictures of an old painting of the ladders on a 17th century ship somewhere.
Aft weather deck ladder.
Central ladder in the waist, next to the main hatch.
Forecastle ladder
Progress so far.
Some small but delicate work was done on the ladderways. I picked up some tiny 0.6mm model detailing chain from the hobby store, not knowing what I would use it for, but knowing it was too cool to pass up. It's used for small scale plastic model battleships. I was pondering how to finish the ladder railings when I remembered having the chain. So, after resizing the loops on some eyebolts, three sets of safety chains were made and installed on the weather deck. Perhaps they are too modern, but the ship needs to be able to grate over the ladder in the main deck in bad weather, so making safety chains as guards around open hatches and these ladders makes sense. If they are too modern, and one of you fellows knows more about what type of railings should go there from some historical reference, I could always replaced them and use the chain for something else. I'm hoping one of you has pictures of an old painting of the ladders on a 17th century ship somewhere.
Aft weather deck ladder.
Central ladder in the waist, next to the main hatch.
Forecastle ladder
Progress so far.
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Hello shipmates! I found where you can buy that tiny chain from. It's on Amazon HERE!
I'm visiting that link now, and it is as good as visiting the painting in-person! WOW - THANKS!!
I reconfigured the work stand to hold the model inverted so work on the hull exterior can begin, since i can't figure out what to do with he weather deck detailing right now. Might as well keep working, starting with the keel.
