Ingermanland 1715 (2014) * Shi Cheng * 1:50 Scale

In this photo, you can see how ridiculously small my work space is. lol

G'day Viktor
It doesn't matter how small or big your space is.......
What really matters is that
you are doing what you LOVE!​
Happymodeling mate
Greg
 
Peglegreg said:
In this photo, you can see how ridiculously small my work space is. lol

G'day Viktor
It doesn't matter how small or big your space is.......
What really matters is that
you are doing what you LOVE!​
Happymodeling mate
Greg
Click to expand...

Greg,tjat love can grow with a bigger room Lol ;):D

Zoltan
 
Hi John,

Looks realy good. I like the fully open co struction of this models. Are decks can be fully detailed. With a war ship of this size it means also you have to build 62 fully detailed and rigged gun carriages. :-).
Keep up the good work.

Maarten
 
zoly99sask said:
This is a good hungarian article about the Ingermanland.

Interesting article,google translate it,hopefully will work to interpret it

http://hajomakett.hu/content/view/631/41/lang,en/

Zoltan
Click to expand...

Here is the English version of that very interesting article:
Part I​



The hull was laid on October 30, 1712 at the Admiralty of St. Petersburg. On May 1, 1715, he was thrown into the water and was soon in service at the Baltic Hadiflot. The three-tier two-lined cruise liner with 64 6 and 12 important sailboats has a length of 46 m, a width of 12.8 m, a dive of approx. 5.6 m. It was named after the ancient Russian land at the mouth of Néva, which was retrieved in 1703 from foreign invaders. "Ingermanland" was a three-pronged, two-lane cruise ship. Plans and drawings were designed and drawn by Peter Czar himself. The construction was led by a shipbuilding master Richard Kozenc, under thorough supervision of Peter. According to its construction, armament and design, the "Ingermanland" - one of the XVIII. s.among the best warships in the beginning. During the design of "Ingermanland" (eg. to ensure the strength of the hull), new technical solutions have been used by shipbuilders of advanced seafaring countries only long afterwards. After the war, "Ingermanland" was a flagship of Péter I. in the Baltic Sea for a number of years. In August 1716 Peter Czar wore warships on the "Ingermanland" mud, from the Copenhagen to the Bornholm island and back to the Swedish fleet, the United Russian-Danish-Dutch-Dutch-Dutch fleet, with 70 lines and a large number of smaller ships. In remembrance of this, Péter I commanded that "Ingermanland" should be preserved for posterity, but the ship sank in the final port of Kronstadt and was dismantled next year due to the impossibility of restoration.
 
Part II​

The flagship of "Ingermanland", the Péter I. Tsar
When Permanent Naval Warfare was established, Peter Péter placed the emphasis on the construction of frigates, which form the core of warships. The next step was the construction of a row of ships, which later became the name of the quay [1]. Only these could play a decisive role in the battles with the strong Swedish fleet and end its centuries-old rule on the Baltic Sea. In 1712 Poltava was the first Russian navy ship in the Baltic Sea at that time the XVIII. s. According to the terminology adopted at the beginning, class warships. At the same time, its firepower (shipboard 54) proved to be inadequate, and therefore it was decided to construct 64 shipwrecked ships. This type, as the practice has shown, proved to be suitable for the creation of the seed fleet's fleet. Much later (1788), former Director of the Maritime Cadets School, GG Kuseljov wrote, "These ships are a good line of good warships, they can be well controlled in warlike situations and are very comfortable on distant roads. With 80 and 74 warships, they form a fleet that can easily combine their power. "[2] This class of warships belonged to the 64 contagious" Ingermanland "in the era of Péter. The author of the article studied the Russian designation of the ship's distinguishing features and the appearance of the outer appearance. a great builder of sailing yachts, Aleksandr Andreyevich Popov, his vast research work. His own conclusions and calculations were announced by Popov in 1835 in the "Notes" of the Scientific Committee of the Marine Principal. These "Notes" included the reconstructed blueprints of "Ingermanland" and the images of the exterior made by Aleksandr Andrejevich, probably based on the original documents of the time of Péter. From the Scientific Committee of the Chief Marine Officer, AA Popov was responsible for reconstructing the Péter's "Ingermanland", as he is referring to in his article [3]. The purpose of this work was to familiarize the Navy community with the outstanding achievements of the 1st Péter Shipbuilding. It is vitally important that the XIX. In the thirties of the 20th century, such research was of great importance since the sailing fleet had flourished, and had a lot of common features with Peter's age. His interest in Popov's research was also enormous because his reliable representation and model of the first "Ingermanland" - the flagship of the Russian naval warlord - had not been preserved until then; The blueprint reconstructed by Aleksandr Andrejevic and the descriptions he produced gave a complete picture of this wonderful ship. With reference to the precision of this work, it should be noted that AA Popov, who himself built sailboat ships, has chosen more than 100 years from the age of I. Peter, but we are more than 250. It is obvious that he was much easier without error to get to know the art of shipbuilding masters in Peter, like us. because his reliable representation and model of the first "Ingermanland" - the flagship of the Russian naval fleet - was not preserved until then; The blueprint reconstructed by Aleksandr Andrejevic and the descriptions he produced gave a complete picture of this wonderful ship. With reference to the precision of this work, it should be noted that AA Popov, who himself built sailboat ships, has chosen more than 100 years from the age of I. Peter, but we are more than 250. It is obvious that he was much easier without error to get to know the art of shipbuilding masters in Peter, like us. because his reliable representation and model of the first "Ingermanland" - the flagship of the Russian naval fleet - was not preserved until then; The blueprint reconstructed by Aleksandr Andrejevic and the descriptions he produced gave a complete picture of this wonderful ship. With reference to the precision of this work, it should be noted that AA Popov, who himself built sailboat ships, has chosen more than 100 years from the age of I. Peter, but we are more than 250. It is obvious that he was much easier without error to get to know the art of shipbuilding masters in Peter, like us. The blueprint reconstructed by Aleksandr Andrejevic and the descriptions he produced gave a complete picture of this wonderful ship. With reference to the precision of this work, it should be noted that AA Popov, who himself built sailboat ships, has chosen more than 100 years from the age of I. Peter, but we are more than 250. It is obvious that he was much easier without error to get to know the art of shipbuilding masters in Peter, like us. The blueprint reconstructed by Aleksandr Andrejevic and the descriptions he produced gave a complete picture of this wonderful ship. With reference to the precision of this work, it should be noted that AA Popov, who himself built sailboat ships, has chosen more than 100 years from the age of I. Peter, but we are more than 250. It is obvious that he was much easier without error to get to know the art of shipbuilding masters in Peter, like us.
image01.gif

Drawing 1 Borders of the "Ingermanland" theoretical line drawing (from AA Popov's drawing)​


In Popov's article [3] and in the work of FF Veszelago, a prominent historian of the Russian fleet [1], we encounter such dimensions of "Ingermanland": the length of the hondecken (bottom deck) 155 feet, width (without shell) 41 feet 10 inches, hull depth from the backbone to hondeck 19 feet 8 inches; Length 151 feet, width 42 ft storage depth 18 ft 3 inches. At the same time, these differences do not mean that there are two different vessels: neither author, nor one author, tells what kind of foot is in English or Dutch; secondly, what kind of measurement method is involved, which is also not negligible. Veszelago himself confirms that in his "List" the main dimensions of the ships are given in a mixed manner - measured in one or another lane1 depending on the nationality of the master (Dutch or English) who built this or that ship, and what kind of information was officially provided. In addition, Popov sets the length of the hondeck and Veszelgo gives it an independent value. It should also be noted that a few feet difference between a wooden sailboat's length is virtually insignificant. It is entirely assumed that when the "Ingermanland" drawings were reconstructed, the XVIII. The majority of the archives of the 20th century have not been studied sufficiently and Alexey Andrejevics has ignored something. However, in a much later work [4], Veszelago analyzes in detail Popov's "Ingermanland" research results, without doubt, and classifies the author as "the best ship engineer of the past, an excellent scientist in the theory and practice of shipbuilding." And here Veszelago announces the "Ingermanland" - Popov's dimensions - and this does not cast doubt on the correctness of the reconstructed drawings in the opened historian. At first glance Popov's drawings seem to be fewer the number of targets for the 64-gun "Ingermanland" in Péter: 12 to 12 on the hondecken and the operdecke (on the upper deck), 7 on the sconce (on the cannon), 31 to 31 62 guns.
​
 
Part III

image02.gif

Drawing 2 Applying the "Borders of Ingermanland" (dotted lines) to the original theoretical line drawing of the 66 shipyards built in 1743​


But in his article Popov points out that there were two small cannons in the forcastle (orrbastya). Thus, the artillery of the ship corresponds to the records of the time. At the same time, some experts believe that there should be 13 cannons on the berths of double-decker 64 bunker ships at the time of Peter, which was defective, as the well-built ones had only 12 cannons. It is proved by this 64-gun Gavriil built in 1743, whose original drawing is guarded in the Main Naval Archives of the Naval Fleet (page 327, op. 1, d. 199). It should be noted that in Popov's drawing, the arrangement of the nose (lion with two human figures in the background) is very similar to that of the "Gavriil" orrush. But this does not contradict reality, as the composition of the Russian fleet for a long time, even in the "Predestination" (1700), which Schönebeck witnessed in 1701, the original drawings of "Predestination" and the engravings after nature. Consequently, a similar figure could be worn by "Ingermanland" (1715) and the much later constructed "Gavriil" (1743). Also noted by AA Popov is that on the lower deck of "Ingermanland" there were 30 caliber cannons. This can be verified by the following. The ship was built as a flagship with reinforced artillery and a reinforced hull. In the words of Aleksandr Andrejevic, one of his tasks was to find out the special "strength" of the hull. Here's what he wrote about it: "Though frightening original drawings and engravings made after nature. Consequently, a similar figure could be worn by "Ingermanland" (1715) and the much later constructed "Gavriil" (1743). Also noted by AA Popov is that on the lower deck of "Ingermanland" there were 30 caliber cannons. This can be verified by the following. The ship was built as a flagship with reinforced artillery and a reinforced hull. In the words of Aleksandr Andrejevic, one of his tasks was to find out the special "strength" of the hull. Here's what he wrote about it: "Though frightening original drawings and engravings made after nature. Consequently, a similar figure could be worn by "Ingermanland" (1715) and the much later constructed "Gavriil" (1743). Also noted by AA Popov is that on the lower deck of "Ingermanland" there were 30 caliber cannons. This can be verified by the following. The ship was built as a flagship with reinforced artillery and a reinforced hull. In the words of Aleksandr Andrejevic, one of his tasks was to find out the special "strength" of the hull. Here's what he wrote about it: "Though frightening2compared to decks that were previously made parallel to the beams, have unreasonably high curvature; however, the placement of the main stretchers includes a whole series of diagonal reinforcements which, at that time, had significant benefits at the end of the hull, and gave the known British shipbuilding supervisor, Robert Sheppings, to establish his own system of internal side-diagonal strengthening of the ship, [3]. It should be noted that the 30 caliber cannons could not be used on board at the beginning as the Russian fleet was only systematized under the Péter I. 1916 decree. It is known that the "Ingermanland" armor was exchanged between 1715 and 1723 for nine times, that such caliber cannons were only supplied during one of the first bombardments. No less important is the fact that the Poperman displacement (about two thousand) of "Ingermanland" (about two thousand) was determined by taking into account the weight of the 30 major cannons placed on Hondeck. The plans of "Ingermanland", as known by himself, and Popov believes: "Of all the plans that Péter Nagy himself attributes to himself, the 64 naval warship plan deserves special attention, according to which, under the leadership of Kozenc shipbuilding master, in St. Petersburg, at the Main Admiralty, Ingermanland, the first one that was put on water on May 1, 1715. " [3] This name was not accidentally received by the new ship: its main function, like the entire Russian fleet, was guarded by the ancient Russian land on the banks of the Gulf of Finland and the Black Sea - Ingermanland (Ingria or Izsori Earth). Peter's plan encompassed all the technical achievements at that time. "Ingermanland" has an enormous amount of firepower, excellent seaworthiness, extreme rigidity and proportionality, rigidity, low drift, consistent with mast and rigging, high artistic design. The hull (the shape of the ribbing) consists of "curved lines" - from marvelous lines in line. The difference between the sliding of the nose and the bushes helped to activate the water on the steering wheel, which caused the vessel to be extremely tangible, the shape of the nose part - "it gave rise to good runnability."3which at the same time gave rise to a rather convincing picture. He placed the lines of the ribs on his drawings on the lines of the theoretical line drawing of the 6 convoy ships built in 1743. The difference in the fullness of the contours in the bending of the sidewalls to the deck (in the second quarter of the 18th century decreased compared to the first) allows the "Ingermanland", which was much earlier constructed, compared with the underlying 66 ships.
​

image03.gif

3.design The XVIII. The development of Russian double-winged sailboat's faded decoration (based on the material of the HTFKFA, p. 427, op. 1) a - "Goto Predestination" (1700); b - "Ingermanland" (1715); c - "Szlava Rosszii" (1733); d - "Esztafij Plakida" (1763).​



The XVIII. In the 18th century, the shape of the sailboats' body, tail and orbital body had undergone a continuous, sharp change without end and with its clear features of history and traditions. To illustrate this, here is the "development" of the ship, in which "Ingermanland" is perfectly integrated. The semi-circular, very tall gallery (the tallest part of the boat - from the top of the upper windows to the navel arch) is typical of the XVIII. ("Gothic Predestination", "Ingermanland"), the low-wavelength-the middle of the same century and the later period ("Szlava Rosszija", "Evtafij Plakida"). The theme and symbolism of the "Ingermanland" décoration is beyond the debate of a péter and not later. Particularly characteristic of the monogram of Peter I, which could not have been on the ship after Peter's death. In the [5] work, a detailed analysis of the decorative design of the "Ingermanland" Péter is found, which fully coincides with the conclusions of the authors of this article. The traditions of the first quarter of the century required a rich enrichment of the hull with carving, painting or gilding. Stopping at architectural-decorative decoration, it should be noted that "Ingermanland" served as the predecessor of a whole series of vessels, which were embellished in the 17th century. End of the century - XVIII. Architectural results of the Baroque period of the nineteenth century. Already in 1700, in Voronezh's yard, according to the plans of Péter I. and his direct participation, "Predestination" built by Russian masters is a glamorous example of this style [6], but less readily the " in his carved columns, his great patriotic theme reflects the enormous struggle of Russia for exiting the sea and becoming a major maritime domineering power. This is evidenced by the traditions of the Péter's time, the figure of a Lion lying on Russia's coat-of-arms on the nose structure (a part of the superstructure called a wavecutter), as well as on the borehole canopy canopy bays (bastion deck - the upper deck part between the main and the rear bunk) military trophies. The high-floating boat is completely covered with allegorical sculptures: there is I. Monument by Péter Dolphins, Neptune and Amphite, tritons, marine beasts and other living creatures of the sea. The crocodile is engraved with medallions: depicting the old tree in the foreground of the sea and rising sun, the younger generation of young people, according to the authors, symbolizes the resurrection of the sea. On the edges of the superstructure (the beams of the tat structure that extend out of the boat to the edge of the side-galleries and serve them) allegorical figures are placed: to the left - the shape of Hope with anchors in his hand, to the right - the form of Faith. Surfaces under the side gallery window also have sculptural representations of sea themes. In addition, the ship is decorated with a rich carved ornament, in the form of plant motifs along the side wall. The lattice carved as a barrier on the tatbalkon served as a delicately decorated decoration with the shape of the shell. The ends of snakeheads, anchoring beams (the beam supporting the anchor lift at the front of the ship) were lioned by lion heads. about
​

image04.jpg

Drawing 4 The view of "Ingermanland" is 1715 (reconstruction of I. Ivanov and A. Konstantinov).​
 
Part IV​


The sophisticated baroque forms of Péter's time have been used on many Russian ships. This applies not only to their decoration, but also to their design form. The hull tried to produce a curved contour, which is well-observed: raised nostrils and tat, side walls heavily inward facing the waterline, the body takes on a form of heavily outwardly protruding snakeheads as the nose bar is larger than the waterline in this section. Moreover, the cannons placed along the horizontal line are crossed by the highly curved fringes, dividing this line. There were no stringent requirements for painting, but in most cases the hull was painted with ocher colors, broad blue sky, red or black stripes. The two lower trinkets were painted in black, carving was carved, or ocher tones. The harmony of decorative elements and design forms gave the Péteri boats a unique and uniform artistic look. The good cruise capability and the great firepower coupled with the beautiful exterior form made Ingermanland the favorite boat of Peter I. It is no coincidence that in 1715, 1716, 1718, 1719 and 1721 it was the flagship of the Russian fleet and in 1716 it was the united English-Dutch-Danish-Russian convoy. Peter ordered the "Ingermanland" to be preserved for eternal times as a historical relic [4]. It is necessary to underline that the Russian fleet was built on the model of "Ingermanland" (with some upgrading) and the XVIII. until the end of the century. The first distant journey to Baltic sailors in 1769 (to the Mediterranean Sea) GA Under the command of Admiral Szpiridov, he was executed on these types of ships. A year later, destroying Turkey's huge Turkish fleet, the Russian navies made Russia bigger than a major maritime power.
​

image05.gif

Drawing 5 The boat's side view and waterline (from AA Popov's drawing).​



Some words about the reconstruction of the appearance of "Ingermanland" in Figure 4. As has been said before, the original drawings or models depicting the ship reliably did not remain on the poster. The model in the Central Naval Museum, which is mistakenly considered to represent the Péter's "Ingermanland", is in fact only a model of the later Ingermanland. As is well known, in the Russian fleet this name was worn by six ships: 1715 (Péter), then 1733, 1752, 1773, and two 1843 built. The first 64 cannons carried, the next three - 66, the last two - 74 each. The fact that the model guarded by the Ministry of Social Affairs and Labor in the 1715 "Ingermanland" depicts a series of facts: the figure of the nose, the tat lamp, the carvings of the carvings, the contours of the hull and the painting are not the same as those of the Péter-era. It is enough to note that the white lanes of the cannons are only in the 18th century. It was published at the end of the century and not at the beginning. The careful study of the scientific research of this issue justifies the conclusion that the museum exhibit is not related to Péter's "Ingermanland" but to a much later period. The long-awaited mistake is explained by the fact that in 1872, when preparing for the opening of the Moscow Polytechnic Exhibition, this model was made for its maritime department, and in a hurry it was called the "Ingermanland" copy of Péter. There is an opinion that this ship is copied by another small model also made by Mr. Jurj Jur, master of ship modeling (his photograph is kept by the authors of this article), At the same time, mast and sail rigs, rigging, raise doubts; besides, the existence of rectangular trestles and nose sails clearly does not correspond to the sail-installation of the Péter's time. What's the point? For such a serious model as Jurjev could not make mistakes, he could have led him astray. It turned out that the model was based on K. Beggrov XIX. It used the lithography of the late 19th century, which does not correspond to the 1715-built "Ingermanland". All of these inaccuracies in the flagships and models of Péter's flagship necessitated the search for reliable data. The revival of the famous "Ingermanland" portrayal of the "AA Popov" was a great help. The Abex and the Winds Basin, and the reconstruction of the rope, the authors of this article used the works [6, 7 and 8], as well as the works of old guards, A. Zubov, P. Pikart, A. Rosztovcev. Further research is expected to allow for a detailed plan of the "Ingermanland" mast and sail rig, rigging and engraving, which will enable the realistic model of this historic vessel to be produced.

Happyreading and I'm Sorry for Hijacking your build log, Viktor
Greg
 
Uwek said:
One more Hijack, but very short
I found a research page where are more than 25.000 ships are listed with a lot of interesting information and the given individual resource for the data.
Here you can find my post with link to the page and to the Ingermanland

https://www.shipsofscale.com/sosfor...rew-designer-f-e-more-than-25-000-ships.1901/

Now, trust us, the topic is yours
Click to expand...

Yes, that is a good site. I actually referenced the Ingermanlands' page, from Three Decks, in an earlier post here. Very good information, as you said ;)
It's interesting to read about the Russian ships of sail, for me, because so much was seemingly kept from the West in regards to these wonderful vessels for so many years. On eBay, I found a Soviet book on the Russian Tall Ships; It was dated 1975 I believe, and it actually had drawings of the Ingermanland. For me, that was very interesting. I would have actually purchased it, but they wanted way too much for it. lol
 
Brian077 said:
Hi Viktor,
thats a great looking kit and I will be following your progress. Welcome to our friendly forum.
Click to expand...
Thank you, Brian! It's good to be here!
I was worried when I first purchased my ship because the only forum that I had found said they would not help people that purchased any Chinese kits, and it was in all CAPS! lol
So I was delighted to have my Facebook followers lead me here.

John (Viktor)
 
Maarten said:
Hi John,

Looks realy good. I like the fully open co struction of this models. Are decks can be fully detailed. With a war ship of this size it means also you have to build 62 fully detailed and rigged gun carriages. :).
Keep up the good work.

Maarten
Click to expand...
Yes, I do have my work cut out for me, Maarten. As a new builder, I will just have to take one step at a time. The first part of the build went rather quickly, but right now, I'm realizing that planking the first deck is going to really slow things down a bit. But I will keep my chin up, and make sure that it is top notch! ;)
 
Hallo John,
is there something new going on in the russian shipyard ?
 
Well, the lumber finally arrived for the decks!

But, for a new builder, with very little instructions from the manufacturer, I do have a couple of questions...

1. Are there any special tips for installing the planking to help make each plank visible?
2. Being a three deck ship, how and when are cannons installed? In other words, are cannons installed as the decks are installed or are they installed after all of the decks are installed. And if it's the latter, how is that done?

IMG_20180425_094646.jpg
 
Hi John,

You first have to finalize a deck before you put a new one on top. This means completely finish with all the parts like pumps gratings etc. Etc. This means also all the cannons for that specific deck incl all the rigging for the cannons if you want to do it right. You can even consider to put in the tools that belong to each cannon, normally these are stowed on the underside of the deck beams at each cannon. If you want to add lighting this is also the moment to do that.

In respect to the deck planks i normally use a marker to colour the sides black to simulate the caulking. On the spots were the deckbeams are you can add wooden dowels or simulate these.

Hope this helps.
 
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