L'Orenoque Mamoli 1:100 scale

Martin By Eye · Friday at 10:03 AM

I spent about three hours going through every french forum post on the subject and anywhere else i could think of but it is like squeezing blood from a stone. >I also looked at every photo i could find of frigates from that era. There will always remain a part of guesswork but my opinion remains that they were behind on the tech of the day and i would be conservative in my choices. deadeyes(upper and lower shrouds), chain bobs if you wish, chain tyes and maybe wire stays and shrouds. Hemp lifts, hemp purchases to chain halyards for upper yards maybe.Sheaves in the yards if it takes your fancy.probably no jackstays so underslung furling. i would go for traditional or tub parrels over iron trusses or more likely mixed.
But...it was a period of invention and individuality when the captain was master of his ship and his choice held large sway. So, as you are now master a bord...

Martin By Eye · Friday at 11:06 AM

The Gavel said:
Jerry Todd!!! My man!!! Thanks for coming through yet again! Well, I'm going to give things a minute to percolate. I get why USN ships moved in relative synchrony with the modern times - France was a different story, I think, because of the amount of political upheaval from Napoleons escape from Elba to the Third Empire I can well imgine that the social, financial and political instability caused delays in adopting the newest and best technology throughout a given ship. Take La Gloire, the model. That was the ship of the moment that changed warships forever. If the model is accurate (as well as my eyes) she still had deadeyes.

For what it's worth.

Blessings.
Chuck

nothing to do with Napoleon, it is in the french mentality. their language is rigid and does not adapt to outside influences....and where the language leads, the neuronal pathways follow. They are always twenty years behind the anglo saxons apart from the occasional one off genius like Citroen who goes off on their own wacky path (because not open to outside influences...you see!) and in my opinion they may well have opted for simplicity in their military rigging as it is much easier to replace a shot away yard with a multipurpose spar and a couple of purchases than iron trusses and the like. All due respects to Jerry but i don't think clipper influence would be integrated before the 1860'S .

Peter Gutterman · Friday at 12:32 PM

The Gavel said:
What ho, shipmates!

I'm still pondering the rigging question. Last night I found this image of the French stern screw frigate Clorinde circa 1843. It occurred to me to try to find pictures of ANY French Navy ships from that period to try to puzzel out the answers. Also, since (GASP!) no one chimed in on whether upper mast shrouds should be set up with rigging screws if the main shrouds use them (GASP! GASP!) I guess no one knows the answer

I also looked back trough McArdel's plan set for USS Susquehanna. She is rigged with deadeyes.

Here's Clorinde. I think I see deadeyes. What do you see?

View attachment 556834

Deadeyes.

The Gavel · Friday at 3:49 PM

What ho, shipmates!

Having consulted my international crew of oracles (shout out to Jerry @JerryTodd ; Martin @Martin By Eye ; Clemens @Papatotalos and my guardian angel Pete @Peter Gutterman

) - see that I didn't mention counting votes - no democracy on my ships ROTF

I'm going with deadeyes and pre-industrial age rigging with maybe a not towards what had already arrived elsewhere.

I am very thankful for the interest in the subject and the usual high standard of sharing among my shipmates (Administrator: we need a heart emoji).

Blessings. Peace. Gratitude.
Chuck

The Gavel · Saturday at 9:48 AM

What ho, shipmates!

I got to work on the gun port details based on the helpful in put of my shipmates! Mindful of the reminder about scale from Jerry Todd and the technique described by Jerry and Namabiiru - here's what happened. First pic- eyebolt less that 1 mm outside diameter made with 28 guage annealed steel wire.

Then I made a bunch of them

Then, after bending the eye to a right angle to the shaft, I tied on the span glued the shaft into a predrilled hole and fixed the span to the hull with acrylic matte medium - AND you need a magnifying glass to see the ringbolts ROTF

. Worth it!!!

Blessings. Peace. Gratitude.
Chuck

The Gavel · Saturday at 9:59 AM

You probably guessed from the fact that I only posted pics of the forward port side that I still had to do the port side aft of the sponsons and the whole starboard side. You guessed right! So the rest of my building time in the Shagri-la Shipyard today will be spent on finishing detailing the port lids. Then I will spend time composing the list of deadeyes, blocks, etc. for the rigging. I will also start work on the design of the structures inboard of the sponsons, including the ladders and the bridge

and/or I will start work on the tambour bateaux

.

In the meantime, given my decision to rig my L'Orenoque in accoradnce with the likely rigging practices, I am thinking to base much of my plan on Petersson's Rigging Wooden Period Ship Models. Reactions? Comments? Thoughts? Don't hold back. I can take it

Wishing you a great day in the shipyard or wherever you happen to find yourself!

Blessings.
Chuck

Martin By Eye · Saturday at 10:33 AM

The Gavel said:
You probably guessed from the fact that I only posted pics of the forward port side that I still had to do the port side aft of the sponsons and the whole starboard side. You guessed right! So the rest of my building time in the Shagri-la Shipyard today will be spent on finishing detailing the port lids. Then I will spend time composing the list of deadeyes, blocks, etc. for the rigging. I will also start work on the design of the structures inboard of the sponsons, including the ladders and the bridge and/or I will start work on the tambour bateaux.

In the meantime, given my decision to rig my L'Orenoque in accoradnce with the likely rigging practices, I am thinking to base much of my plan on Petersson's Rigging Wooden Period Ship Models. Reactions? Comments? Thoughts? Don't hold back. I can take it

Wishing you a great day in the shipyard or wherever you happen to find yourself!

Blessings.
Chuck

i go a lot from Peterssons. Don't forget if you are imitating wire stays to thin them down appropriately from hemp. In an aside , personally i leave gunport details, tack bumpkins , anchors and other external hull fittings till last as i have a tendance to knock them off when rigging above them (mainly because my eyesight is so poor so i am always too close !) Have fun ! (I am finishing rigging my cutty , finally, so might start a new build log , come spring !).

The Gavel · Sunday at 10:19 AM

Martin By Eye said:
i go a lot from Peterssons. Don't forget if you are imitating wire stays to thin them down appropriately from hemp. In an aside , personally i leave gunport details, tack bumpkins , anchors and other external hull fittings till last as i have a tendance to knock them off when rigging above them (mainly because my eyesight is so poor so i am always too close !) Have fun ! (I am finishing rigging my cutty , finally, so might start a new build log , come spring !).

Martin! Thank you for the guidance! As to the external details, I completely agree. On my Harriet Lane the last thing was the open gunport lids. In this case, with the ringbolts and spans, nothing is really sticking out and it is more or less bonded to the gunport lid with acrylic matte medium.

Lovely to hear about the progress on your Cutty! I think rigging is my favorite process (although there can be a lot of ^&!%@%!*%!##!! when the line wants to twist or I break something trying to reach across the deck to belay a line ROTF

).

Enjoy!

Blessings.
Chuck

The Gavel · Sunday at 10:55 AM

What ho, shipmates!

Well, of the items on the "next things" punch-list, I decided to work on the bateaux-tambours. I got the buck nicely shaped last night. Transforming the surface from porus to non-porus has me a bit challenged. My first thought, and the least messy, fastest method, was bees wax. I tried an experiment on a piece of scrap wood this morning. I aplied a liberal coat of bees wax and used a few stips of grocery store brown paper shopping bag and Titebond II. It worked, but the glue seems to want to lift the bees wax off the buck.

Also - the brown paper is excellent as planking material for this process!!! Thank you Roger @Roger Pellett , Martin @Martin By Eye and, as every Jerry @JerryTodd for suggesting paper, including the best kind of paper! I will probably do a couple more experiments this morning. Jerry suggested wetting the paper so that in drying it shrank and dried drum tight. Jerry, I'm thinking that the paper would be barely damp so that the glue would still work?

I am thinking to cover the buck with Saran Wrap to deal with the problem of the glue peeling up the wax. Maybe I should be using a different glue? I thought about white glue. Since I will be painting the insides of the bateaux I didnt want the water soluble glue to ge wet again and deform the bateaux. But I will also need to glue things to the inside of the bateaux with the fact that the surface inside the boat will be glue of some kind, thoughts on glueing on glue? I'm thinking CA which will bond to the Titebond. And since it will be painted there will be no dorect exposure to sunlight.

Here's a couple pics

The Gavel · Sunday at 11:18 AM

As to the rigging - crows feet? Or was the practice passe in France by then?

Blessings.
Chuck

Martin By Eye · Sunday at 1:42 PM

The Gavel said:
As to the rigging - crows feet? Or was the practice passe in France by then?

Blessings.
Chuck

I vote against, but it depends what you do with your tops, as the kit version looks ....uh....over the top?. The Gomez photo looks smaller, more rounded to me and almost clipper style.

The Gavel · Sunday at 3:22 PM

Martin By Eye said:
I vote against, but it depends what you do with your tops, as the kit version looks ....uh....over the top?. The Gomez photo looks smaller, more rounded to me and almost clipper style.

Martin! Nice to have another set of eyes on the problem. Thank you! I'll try not to go too over the top ROTF

Sometimes I just can't help it.

Blessings.
Chuck

Martin By Eye · Sunday at 3:44 PM

one more yack and then i'll leave you to it.... i knew something was bugging me and now it's clicked ! I just can't see the foremast being higher than the mainmast as in mamoli style. if you look at the new york sail plan it shows standard proportions and i think that is much more likely. Sorry for the rant !

JerryTodd · Sunday at 3:51 PM

The Gavel said:
Martin! Nice to have another set of eyes on the problem. Thank you! I'll try not to go too over the top Sometimes I just can't help it.

Blessings.
Chuck

Crows-feet were gone by the end of the 1700s, and only clung to by modelers that think they're cool looking.

The Gavel · Sunday at 9:10 PM

Martin By Eye said:
one more yack and then i'll leave you to it.... i knew something was bugging me and now it's clicked ! I just can't see the foremast being higher than the mainmast as in mamoli style. if you look at the new york sail plan it shows standard proportions and i think that is much more likely. Sorry for the rant !

Martin! Yack away my friend! I may or may not have caught this problem. I'll be very mindful as I construct the masts! Thank you!

Blessings.
Chuck

The Gavel · Sunday at 9:11 PM

JerryTodd said:
Crows-feet were gone by the end of the 1700s, and only clung to by modelers that think they're cool looking.

Jerry Todd saves the day again! Thanks for the guidance, Jerry! I'm one of those modelers who thinks they're cool looking

. I'll build a period correct ship and then add the crows-feet!

Blessings.
Chuck

The Gavel · Sunday at 9:22 PM

Bateaux-tambours anyone?

It was cool to find out that the process worked! This one is a prototype. My buck is a little too long - the bateaux needs to be about 3/32" shorter. The brown paper bag trick is genius!!!! Saran Wrap! Keeps food and my porous wooden buck fresh! Getting it off the buck was a little difficult, but I got it done by turning a toothpick into a thin spatula and easing it around the opening, So exciting! On the other hand, the bateaux is almost weightless. I am puzzeled about how to rig it as if it is being prepared for lowering and gravity is having its effect on an object that weighs more than 5000 pounds. Well, we'll see . . . .

I hope you all had the best day!

Blessings. Peace. Gratitude.
Chuck

Martin By Eye · Monday at 2:02 AM

Excellent ! quirky and wonderful ! And they actually look quite seaworthy, allthough i'm not sure they would be quickly deployed in an emergency.

Namabiiru · Monday at 2:40 AM

The Gavel said:
Bateaux-tambours anyone?

View attachment 557560 View attachment 557561 View attachment 557562 View attachment 557563

It was cool to find out that the process worked! This one is a prototype. My buck is a little too long - the bateaux needs to be about 3/32" shorter. The brown paper bag trick is genius!!!! Saran Wrap! Keeps food and my porous wooden buck fresh! Getting it off the buck was a little difficult, but I got it done by turning a toothpick into a thin spatula and easing it around the opening, So exciting! On the other hand, the bateaux is almost weightless. I am puzzeled about how to rig it as if it is being prepared for lowering and gravity is having its effect on an object that weighs more than 5000 pounds. Well, we'll see . . . .

I hope you all had the best day!

Blessings. Peace. Gratitude.
Chuck

Swabbie · Monday at 3:23 AM

@The Gavel, a fine job you are doing with this build. It is going to look great.
Thanks for sharing.