Pinnace Papegojan 1627 - 1/48 [COMPLETED BUILD]

[mati.n]

First of all thank you Guys for such a nice comments. Really appreciate that.

@Maarten
Different laid direction of the ropes it's very interesting... however its still some mistery for me.
Hawsers ... right-handed laid ropes were most popular option in use, I guess due to strength. Left-handed apparently is more flexible (used quite often for breaching or gun tackle ropes) However, shrouds as left handed laid ropes are sometimes visible on models and publications (mainly on HMS's)
Funny, because HMS Victory has shrouds as cable-laid ropes , but I guess it's due to the size of the ship and required ropes strength.
For example Conway's HMS Alert publication contain few rigging drawings where in one shrouds are pictured as left-handed and on another drawing shrouds are shown as right-handed so I guess author couldn't decide by himself, which one to use in his book hehe
So I think it's always causing some confusions

For me... shrouds will be always right-handed laid ropes (unless I will build Victory... then there will be a cables)

Stays... either has to be hawser right-handed laid or cable-laid. I guess rigging as left-handed hawsers might be mistake... but I'm not sure.. I'm not specialist

For running rigging in overall rope-web we can see some left-handed ropes... but not sure for which part of the running rigging they are corresponding in general.

Maybe @Ab Hoving as a specialist will have some interesting informations to add to this subject

@LuigiSoft I'm sure you can do it good luck. Thanks!

@Bryian Thank you. Feel free to keep them as a reference... I'm happy to hear there are helpful. I'm doing my best to keep the photos high quality so others may find them useful. Rigging is the part of the model, which is in my opinion most challenging part and very often very confusing due to amount of technical terminology and proper understanding why particular ropes has certain diameter and why has to run in specify manner.
It's a lot to handle so I hope by looking at good photo some of our fellow modelers can take some hints.

@Schrader Thanks a lot!. Yes... 11 years... but big part of it model was just covered and waiting... I just didn't have enough time for it
Regarding CNC... I do not own my own mill... and I'm not good in model design either. Just simple Corel Draw drawings are not an issue for me. Rest of 3D modeling and codes were done by some of my colleagues.
For my model I've got myself help with just some of the repetitive detail, like deadeyes, gun carriages, ladders... and carving except figurehead are done on CNC as well... but still they're requiring to spend on them vast amount of time to give them final look by hand.
Most of the blocks, which I'm using are CNC as well... only the biggest I did by myself.
CNC is great and very helpful... but still require some final touch for quality freaks before fitting on the model.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Ab Hoving]

Hi Matt,
Nice progress!
As to the matter of left- and right hand rope for shrouds: I looked for it in the 17th century literature, but could not find anything about it. I also checked the rigger/sailmaker of the Batavia shipyard, working on the rigging of the 1/10 replica of De 7 Provinciën. He never heard anything about it and was most surprised. It even seemed most unlikely to him. In my years in the museum, working with old models of which some had their original rigging I never spotted different sorts of rope for the the star and larboard sides. On the large model of the William Rex I only spotted right hand rope for the shrouds on both sides.
if I were you I would simply skip this myth.

 

[mati.n]

Thank you Ab for your addition.

For me also it's sounds bit unreal to have shrouds with different laid on port and starboard side... but this was quote from Mondfeld so let's treat this as a curiosity
I'm using only right-hand laid ropes anyway... except anchors ropes as cables obviously.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Mash]

Hi Matt,
Nice progress!
As to the matter of left- and right hand rope for shrouds: I looked for it in the 17th century literature, but could not find anything about it. I also checked the rigger/sailmaker of the Batavia shipyard, working on the rigging of the 1/10 replica of De 7 Provinciën. He never heard anything about it and was most surprised. It even seemed most unlikely to him. In my years in the museum, working with old models of which some had their original rigging I never spotted different sorts of rope for the the star and larboard sides. On the large model of the William Rex I only spotted right hand rope for the shrouds on both sides.
if I were you I would simply skip this myth.

That is no longer correct. In Volume 9 of the Encyclopedia, Mondfeld revoked this opinion because he could not find any definitive evidence for it. Which, in turn, is not true, because there is certainly left-handed material. With very heavy loads, lower shrouds, anchor ropes, etc. are struck several times. Physically this then inevitably results in "turned left". This practically does not occur in normal use. Read also here https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlagrichtung

 

[Ab Hoving]

Hello Mash
I did not deny that both left and right hand rope exist. Of course they do. But since I was asked wether or not different types of rope were used on port and larboard side and I did not know the answer, I tried to find out with my contacts. All the experts (for instance the rigger/rope maker of the Swedish East Indiaman Goteborg, Ron Groenestein, the Dutch sail expert Menno Leenstra and the rigger of the Batavia model Aemile Lalk) all denied the use of other than right handed rope for shrouds on both sides. It's just a myth.

 

[Mash]

Hello Mash
I did not deny that both left and right hand rope exist. Of course they do. But since I was asked wether or not different types of rope were used on port and larboard side and I did not know the answer, I tried to find out with my contacts. All the experts (for instance the rigger/rope maker of the Swedish East Indiaman Goteborg, Ron Groenestein, the Dutch sail expert Menno Leenstra and the rigger of the Batavia model Aemile Lalk) all denied the use of other than right handed rope for shrouds on both sides. It's just a myth.

I didn't want that to be expressed by that either. Sorry, English is not my first language . Originally, I wanted to correct Mondfeld's statement in an older edition of his book.

 

[Ab Hoving]

Never mind Mash, Matt has at least clarity. And it is wise to check zu Mondfeld's revelations every now and then.

 

[Mash]

Never mind Mash, Matt has at least clarity. And it is wise to check zu Mondfeld's revelations every now and then.

Of course, that's okay. I am old enough (I hope) to have learned to question everything first. It is always good to think for yourself. Nobody has eaten wisdom with a spoon. From my other "job" in the 1: 1250 range, I have made the experience that especially "beginners" often do not have this information yet. That was part of my comment.

 

[tommyg]

What more can I say that hasn't been said already. I have been studying this thread all afternoon. Thanks Mati for taking the time to share your techniques, a true learning experience.

 

[mati.n]

Hi All,
Thank you very much @Ab Hoving and @Mash for such a lively discussion about the shrouds
Like I've mentioned before for me shrouds will be always right-handed... but it's always great to start digging for some information no matter what we can find... it's always interesting.

However, Mash, would you be so kind and elaborate a bit more to which Volume 9 of the Mondfeld Encyclopedia you are referring? I think I'm not familiar with this publication

Thank you @tommyg for good "word"!

Meanwhile, I'm working on futtock shrouds... so far on mainmast...



...and another a little bit annoying detail, which non of the common viewer will ever notice
Catharpins
It's bit pain in the butt to fix them in place due to lack of space in this area... but could be worst



Cheers,
Matt

 

[Steef66]

Nice work again.
Question. Do you assemble sails? I ask this because the laneyard of the yard is already full assembled.
And if you do sail, what is the trick to connect the yard and sail on the eye of the laneyard?

 

[Mash]

Hi All,
Thank you very much @Ab Hoving and @Mash for such a lively discussion about the shrouds
Like I've mentioned before for me shrouds will be always right-handed... but it's always great to start digging for some information no matter what we can find... it's always interesting.

However, Mash, would you be so kind and elaborate a bit more to which Volume 9 of the Mondfeld Encyclopedia you are referring? I think I'm not familiar with this publication

Thank you @tommyg for good "word"!

Meanwhile, I'm working on futtock shrouds... so far on mainmast...

View attachment 227731

...and another a little bit annoying detail, which non of the common viewer will ever notice
Catharpins
It's bit pain in the butt to fix them in place due to lack of space in this area... but could be worst

View attachment 227732

Cheers,
Matt

Hello Matt, of course. There is the well-known "standard work" by Mondfeld. Then he published an encyclopedia planned for 12 volumes. However, only 9 of them have appeared. As far as I know, there was a change of publisher and the series was discontinued. Overall much more detailed than the standard book. I don't know if the series is available in English. The German edition is also only available to a limited extent.

 

[mati.n]

Hi Stephan,

I'm still not sure. Still thinking. If I will decide to go with sails all of them will be fully furled that's for sure.

Attaching the sails to the main and fore yard and lanyard will be definitely fun and interesting task
Those two yards has few fittings to go on with... like ring bolts with gaskets for furling sails, sling cleat... few blocks for leechlines, sheets and clewlines.
Sails will be attached (if I will decide to do them) by robands.
No trick... just a lot of annoying knots
Half of sail I will be able to bend to the yard "on the desk" and pre-furl with temporary ropes and the rest of the sail has to be done on the model.
Yard will be inserted from the sides through lanyards eyes. Then sling cleat to secure lanyard, and bending rest of the sail to the yard by robands.
I know already it will be another pain in the butt, but rest of the yards and furled sails can be done on the desk fully.

Lanyards with ramsheads are not fixed yet so I can still extend them quite far to work on yards and sails.

Also... I'm procrastinating work on sails because I would like to go with I think most difficult method of cloth sewing imitation. I'd like to go with pulling single threads from the fabric... sewing just linings... lot of work
...but I think soon it's time to decide on to go with or without sails. So far I have no inspiration for sails


@Mash thanks!
That's what I thought you will refer to this book. Yes.. Unfortunately no English version, just German shame, because it could be nice to go through this books
Maybe one day... if I will learn German language


Cheers,
Matt

 

[Steef66]

Yes that is a pain in the ass. Binding the sail to the yard, when the yard is already hanging in the lanyards. It is difficult enough to get them on the yard on the table. Succes

 

[Hoss6262]

Hi All,

Not much inspiration today... so just a small update

So far mizzen and main mast are done with shrouds and lanyards.
Just one more to go... foremast.

Few quick photos.

Single shroud and my way of making eye.
I'm cutting end of served rope at angle and forming an eye.
One drop of CA to keep this in desire shape and hand made serving over the glue point.

View attachment 219835

View attachment 219836

Main mast head with laid sequence of tackles and shrouds.

View attachment 219837

...and quick shoot on channel with lanyards.

View attachment 219838

Cheers,
Matt

Hi Mati,

I just now found your build log. I am realizing more every day that SoS has not just a few talented builders, but many. I really appreciate the clean lines on all your cuts, super wood tones, the black on your chain plates, of course the quality of your rope. It is clearly evident you are passionate about the hobby. Another example of a "gold standard" of build quality.

Would you please share how you fabricated the mouse on your main stay? I cannot tell if it has been fabricated from wood and painted or actually woven into the line.

I look forward to seeing more of your work and learning from it immensely.

Thank you for sharing sir!

 

[tommyg]

Hi Stephan,

I'm still not sure. Still thinking. If I will decide to go with sails all of them will be fully furled that's for sure.

Attaching the sails to the main and fore yard and lanyard will be definitely fun and interesting task
Those two yards has few fittings to go on with... like ring bolts with gaskets for furling sails, sling cleat... few blocks for leechlines, sheets and clewlines.
Sails will be attached (if I will decide to do them) by robands.
No trick... just a lot of annoying knots
Half of sail I will be able to bend to the yard "on the desk" and pre-furl with temporary ropes and the rest of the sail has to be done on the model.
Yard will be inserted from the sides through lanyards eyes. Then sling cleat to secure lanyard, and bending rest of the sail to the yard by robands.
I know already it will be another pain in the butt, but rest of the yards and furled sails can be done on the desk fully.

Lanyards with ramsheads are not fixed yet so I can still extend them quite far to work on yards and sails.

Also... I'm procrastinating work on sails because I would like to go with I think most difficult method of cloth sewing imitation. I'd like to go with pulling single threads fwharom the fabric... sewing just linings... lot of work
...but I think soon it's time to decide on to go with or without sails. So far I have no inspiration for sails


@Mash thanks!
That's what I thought you will refer to this book. Yes.. Unfortunately no English version, just German shame, because it could be nice to go through this books
Maybe one day... if I will learn German language


Cheers,
Matt

Robands? I had to look that one up. From what I could find was that they are the thickness of a finger. So extremely thin to scale they are almost impractical and definately beyond my skill level but I'm sure Matt enjoys the challenge.

 

[mati.n]

Hi All,

@Hoss6262 - Thank you for nice comment.
Regarding mouse... it has wooden (pear) core. So basically I've just turn piece of wood on my Proxxon micro drill to desire shape. Then drilled hole through the mouse for the stay. Wooden core was "wrapped" by ~0,18mm rope. As I've mentioned before it should have vertical threading and horizontal daring, but I was not happy with result on smallest mouse... so I went with just a simple single rope "wrap" starting from slim end and going all the way to "fat" end.

@tommyg - True... robands in my scale should be somewhere around 0,2mm rope quite fun... but to make the rope with this diameter is not an issue... but making all the knots it's so mych joy
Anyway... I've decided to go without sails, so I won't bother myself with this problem
Somehow I really enjoy the look of models without sails and all the ropes "spider web".

Cheers,
Matt

 

[mati.n]

Hi All,

Still on the wave so I have some little progress.

This time main yard.
As you might see on the photos main yard are fully "armed" with all sheet blocks and gaskets (gaskets were used for furling and securing sails to the yard)
As far as I found... gaskets ropes were spliced around the yard when not in use... however I kind of enjoying looking at them hanging down freely... so I think I will leave them this way.
Model will be without sails, as I've mentioned before... so I'm hoping for nice visual effect with all the possible fitted ropes.

Few photos...

Sheet blocks.
Milled holes for rope sheave imitation. Final shape and finish by hand using files and sanding sponges.




Few photos of the "fully armed" yard with all the sheet blocks and gaskets.





...and hung in place




Cheers,
Matt

 

[Steef66]

I love your sheet blocks. And the proxxon works accurate. By hand it is a little more difficult to do the job.
You also can do the rope the seaman use to walk on. Don't know how it's call.

 

[mati.n]

Hi Steef,

Thanks. Maybe faster.. because whole by hand and to drill simetric holes is a bit trickier

It's called foot rope.
The problem with them is... that according to some sources they came into use somewhere/after ~1640...
So I think I will skip them... unless I will find some strong evidence to do them

Maybe @Ab Hoving may throw some light on it? (sorry to bother you again )

I have also doubt about gaskets on top yards and spiritsail yard... not sure if I should fit them. I saw them in De 7 Provincien drawings by Otte Blom, but nowhere else...
Actually gaskets are visible on main yard and fore yard and on spiritsail yards... but not on top yards... so I'm just wondering how they were securing furled sails?