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Santissima Trinidade 1:90 Scale OcCre
- Thread starter Anguirel
- Start date
- Watchers 15
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- Tags
- occre santisima trinidad
Hi,
Donnie the new forum looks great... in relation with my log I fond nothing wrong with it.
Here are the latest updates on my ST:
I had to make a new stem since the last one was not in the right location and I ruin it trying to fix it.
I'm finished with the lower deck:
Or maybe I will add some rope work to the stairs...
the gun ports and the fenders are a work in progress:
I've spent most of the time on the stern decoration and all the carving are done for one side. I'm guessing that with the finishing oil we will see the carving better. I wished the carvings were a little better but I hope that with practice they get better.
and for last the windows for the officers accommodations and the windows decoration:
:greetings-waveyellow:
Donnie the new forum looks great... in relation with my log I fond nothing wrong with it.
Here are the latest updates on my ST:
I had to make a new stem since the last one was not in the right location and I ruin it trying to fix it.
I'm finished with the lower deck:
Or maybe I will add some rope work to the stairs...
the gun ports and the fenders are a work in progress:
I've spent most of the time on the stern decoration and all the carving are done for one side. I'm guessing that with the finishing oil we will see the carving better. I wished the carvings were a little better but I hope that with practice they get better.
and for last the windows for the officers accommodations and the windows decoration:
:greetings-waveyellow:
Looking good. That is a lot of work to get carvings looking better than painted metal parts.
Well,
this just blows my mind. Beautiful work indeed !!! I have to ask. What did you use for your caulking between the Decking Planks. It seems as if the space between the planks are emphasized and I really like it a lot.
Donnie
this just blows my mind. Beautiful work indeed !!! I have to ask. What did you use for your caulking between the Decking Planks. It seems as if the space between the planks are emphasized and I really like it a lot.
Donnie
Hi Donnie,
Thanks. For the caulking I tested several options the one I like the most was a black sheet of paper in-between the planks. the paper is glued to one side of the planks before they are put in place. For the tree-nails I made the hole before sanding. Since I have the black paper mimicking the caulking during sanding the dust turns blackish and fill in the holes giving the final finish. The final touch is a Danish Oil Finish natural color.
:greetings-waveyellow:
Thanks. For the caulking I tested several options the one I like the most was a black sheet of paper in-between the planks. the paper is glued to one side of the planks before they are put in place. For the tree-nails I made the hole before sanding. Since I have the black paper mimicking the caulking during sanding the dust turns blackish and fill in the holes giving the final finish. The final touch is a Danish Oil Finish natural color.
:greetings-waveyellow:
Hi,
Just a little update. finished the fenders
and the side samson posts
Started adding the gun port lid's ropes. For the ones not yet assembled I will add the ropes in the eyebolts while putting the lid together (should of thought about that before)...
I plan to do the cannons before adding anything else to the deck so I have more space to move around. Now I'm doing some research on the design of Spaniard gun carriage. Of course most thing I find is about the English ones but I think I have something I can work with.
this ones are far from complete.
Now my biggest problem and I haven't find a definitive solution is about the disposition of the guns. I never like the gun all run out and ready for action. I fond some images and drawing showing how to secure the guns for sea but they are all for the "close" deck. the only reference I found describing the guns on the quarter decks, forecastle and mid section was in the "Historic Ship Models" by Wolfram and he states that in this case the guns are frequency secured in the run out position, now how is that...
the only reference I fond was in the Model Ship World forum, in this topic
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/76-hms-victory-by-dafi-heller-plastic-to-victory-and-beyond/page-7?hl=%20secure%20%20guns
He shows a diagram with different options
According to Wolfram the right option in A, but I got intrigued about option D. I had fond this is other references and it looks like i's the only one that seems to be in a open deck. But I also read that the weight in the upper deck should be moved to the centre of the ship as much as possible for stability reason. so in the end I still don't know what to do. Just going to give it a thought for a few more days...
:greetings-waveyellow:
Just a little update. finished the fenders
and the side samson posts
Started adding the gun port lid's ropes. For the ones not yet assembled I will add the ropes in the eyebolts while putting the lid together (should of thought about that before)...
I plan to do the cannons before adding anything else to the deck so I have more space to move around. Now I'm doing some research on the design of Spaniard gun carriage. Of course most thing I find is about the English ones but I think I have something I can work with.
this ones are far from complete.
Now my biggest problem and I haven't find a definitive solution is about the disposition of the guns. I never like the gun all run out and ready for action. I fond some images and drawing showing how to secure the guns for sea but they are all for the "close" deck. the only reference I found describing the guns on the quarter decks, forecastle and mid section was in the "Historic Ship Models" by Wolfram and he states that in this case the guns are frequency secured in the run out position, now how is that...
the only reference I fond was in the Model Ship World forum, in this topic
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/76-hms-victory-by-dafi-heller-plastic-to-victory-and-beyond/page-7?hl=%20secure%20%20guns
He shows a diagram with different options
According to Wolfram the right option in A, but I got intrigued about option D. I had fond this is other references and it looks like i's the only one that seems to be in a open deck. But I also read that the weight in the upper deck should be moved to the centre of the ship as much as possible for stability reason. so in the end I still don't know what to do. Just going to give it a thought for a few more days...
:greetings-waveyellow:
Hi Anguirel, your model is looking really good, I like the different colours of timbers.
Regarding the gun positions, when the guns were in the "housing" position space on the decks between the guns, internal, would have been very limited and if the ship was sailing in perhaps 'unfriendly waters' then the ship and crew would have been on some form of alertness. In rough seas the guns would have been "run in" and the ports would be closed to keep water out. Guns may also have been 'run out' in order to allow air and breeze through the ship, you can well imagine a couple of hundred sweaty seamen and NO deodorant!!
MAYBE to give your ship a more balanced centre of gravity look have the guns fully "run out" on lowest deck progressively going "running in" towards the top deck.
Regards
Eric
Regarding the gun positions, when the guns were in the "housing" position space on the decks between the guns, internal, would have been very limited and if the ship was sailing in perhaps 'unfriendly waters' then the ship and crew would have been on some form of alertness. In rough seas the guns would have been "run in" and the ports would be closed to keep water out. Guns may also have been 'run out' in order to allow air and breeze through the ship, you can well imagine a couple of hundred sweaty seamen and NO deodorant!!
MAYBE to give your ship a more balanced centre of gravity look have the guns fully "run out" on lowest deck progressively going "running in" towards the top deck.
Regards
Eric
Hi Anguirel,
Nice going on the Trinidad. The following link may answer some of your doubts and hopefully help you on the fittings for Trinidad:
http://www.um.es/catedranaval/docs/MDLV.pdf
It is the Diccionario Maritimo del Marqués de la Victoria a.k.a Album Marqués de la Victoria. On plate 84 you can see the gun stowage methods I belive D was for the upper deck.
Nice going on the Trinidad. The following link may answer some of your doubts and hopefully help you on the fittings for Trinidad:
http://www.um.es/catedranaval/docs/MDLV.pdf
It is the Diccionario Maritimo del Marqués de la Victoria a.k.a Album Marqués de la Victoria. On plate 84 you can see the gun stowage methods I belive D was for the upper deck.
hi eric61 I decided to keep all the gun port closed. I put some gun on the gun deck and they are all housed.
Anaga, it's always nice to ear from you. I have bit and peices of that book but it's always better to have it all and now I have another reference for the gun carriage design. I had seen the plate you are talking about and that was what I was going for but then I read about the guns being secured in the run out position in the weather decks. Would this be the way to secure the gun in good weather and the other one ( parallel to the side wall) during stormy weather?
:greetings-waveyellow:
Anaga, it's always nice to ear from you. I have bit and peices of that book but it's always better to have it all and now I have another reference for the gun carriage design. I had seen the plate you are talking about and that was what I was going for but then I read about the guns being secured in the run out position in the weather decks. Would this be the way to secure the gun in good weather and the other one ( parallel to the side wall) during stormy weather?
:greetings-waveyellow:
That looks like a great reference work with some great information. It should be printed in new conditions and would be great to have translated into English. With over 20,000 ship modelers that speak English, the book should sell a lot of copies.
It could be so but I don´t know for sure. The album is a low resolution pdf and I can barely read the texts on it. Method D could also be a way of making room to move carriages along the deck for hoisting them out of the ship. The upper deck of Trinidad had 10 howitzers at the waist plus the 8 pounders for the remaining gun ports so I think method A should be the one.
I agree but the album is not a book but a series of huge plates binded togther. There is a new print of it at the original scale of the plates but its price is €700:
http://fundacionmuseonaval.com/tienda-on-line/tienda-museo-naval/libreria/album-del-marques-de-la-victoria-detail
The Juan Jose Navarro Marqis of la Victoria album is a must for any seroius model maker or 18th century ship construction enthusiast. Hopefully someone might post a better high res document or/and the corresponding plate texts somewhere.The link below is a video explainig some of its content and the music is a piece by Luigi Bocherini the Spanish Court official chamber musician at the time :greetings-clapyellow: :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWojEuWwiKE
Hi,
I found this page with all the plates and a small explanation of what's on them (in Spanish)
http://www.armada.mde.es/museonaval/aplicaciones/coleccion-marques-victoria/#
In this one there is an actual transcript of the text (in Spanish of course) of plate 86
http://www.todoababor.es/datos_docum/MV-artilleria.htm
:greetings-waveyellow:
I found this page with all the plates and a small explanation of what's on them (in Spanish)
http://www.armada.mde.es/museonaval/aplicaciones/coleccion-marques-victoria/#
In this one there is an actual transcript of the text (in Spanish of course) of plate 86
http://www.todoababor.es/datos_docum/MV-artilleria.htm
:greetings-waveyellow:
Anguirel,
Excellent. The second link explains it all. The lashing alongside method was for the guns under the gangways. It was a convenient way to make room for manuvering the auxiliary boats or hauling cargo in and out of the hold.
Excellent. The second link explains it all. The lashing alongside method was for the guns under the gangways. It was a convenient way to make room for manuvering the auxiliary boats or hauling cargo in and out of the hold.
That makes a lot of sense. There is always a good reason why things are the way they are on ships. There were rules for everything; it is just finding them that is hard since stuff was not written down.
Hi,
I finally have a gun carriage that I'm happy with (well not 100%, but 95% which is not bad). So far only one is complete. The other are not far off, I'm only missing the quoins, tompions and fixing the cannon to the carriage (and respective locks). count down 17 to go. Them on to the rigging...
Here's some photos of the finished gun carriage...
the tompion
the quoin
the fixing of the gun. Now the axis hole on the cannon was already drilled and it's not centred. I thought about making a new hole closer to the mouth of the gun but I don't have the tools. Hope that this wont be a problem for the rigging of the breeching tackle.
this is the other thing I'm not happy the the eyebolts for the gun-tackle is to close to the eyebolts for the breeching-tackle. I was following the book Anaga posted and in the pictures there are only 3 eyebolts and two ringed eyebolts (this one for the breeching-tackle) only later did I realizes I was missing the one for the gun-tackle
the under side
and the gun in place. Still have not decided the arrangement. they are all going to be secured just missing the arrangement, probably will only decide once I have all of the guns (including the cannonades)
:greetings-waveyellow:
I finally have a gun carriage that I'm happy with (well not 100%, but 95% which is not bad). So far only one is complete. The other are not far off, I'm only missing the quoins, tompions and fixing the cannon to the carriage (and respective locks). count down 17 to go. Them on to the rigging...
Here's some photos of the finished gun carriage...
the tompion
the quoin
the fixing of the gun. Now the axis hole on the cannon was already drilled and it's not centred. I thought about making a new hole closer to the mouth of the gun but I don't have the tools. Hope that this wont be a problem for the rigging of the breeching tackle.
this is the other thing I'm not happy the the eyebolts for the gun-tackle is to close to the eyebolts for the breeching-tackle. I was following the book Anaga posted and in the pictures there are only 3 eyebolts and two ringed eyebolts (this one for the breeching-tackle) only later did I realizes I was missing the one for the gun-tackle
the under side
and the gun in place. Still have not decided the arrangement. they are all going to be secured just missing the arrangement, probably will only decide once I have all of the guns (including the cannonades)
:greetings-waveyellow:
Looks good to me. Beats the kit design in many ways. Nicely done.
Hi Anguirel
I too built the Santisima, but I must freely admit that the detail I see in your build puts mine to shame. Beautiful work!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm currently working in plastic. I have completed the Trumpeter Bismark and are currently working on the Trumpeter Missouri. Both of the build logs are out here on SOS.
I invite you to take a look at my Santisima build log titled OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build with Reverse Rigging. Let me explain. When I built the Wasa, as I continued adding rigging, it got harder and harder for me to attach the lines to the belaying pins, etc. But I persevered and finished it. When I did the Santisima, working with the instructions and the details contained therein, I pre cut every line and then attached one end to the belaying pins, etc., hanging the other end over the side of the ship, before any of the masts and yards were installed. As the yards and sails were added, the appropriate line was brought 'up' through the blocks etc and finally tied off to the last location in the line, which was usually out there in free space, not down on the deck with umpty seven other lines in the way.
Something to consider.
Jim
I too built the Santisima, but I must freely admit that the detail I see in your build puts mine to shame. Beautiful work!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm currently working in plastic. I have completed the Trumpeter Bismark and are currently working on the Trumpeter Missouri. Both of the build logs are out here on SOS.
I invite you to take a look at my Santisima build log titled OcCre Santisima Trinidad Build with Reverse Rigging. Let me explain. When I built the Wasa, as I continued adding rigging, it got harder and harder for me to attach the lines to the belaying pins, etc. But I persevered and finished it. When I did the Santisima, working with the instructions and the details contained therein, I pre cut every line and then attached one end to the belaying pins, etc., hanging the other end over the side of the ship, before any of the masts and yards were installed. As the yards and sails were added, the appropriate line was brought 'up' through the blocks etc and finally tied off to the last location in the line, which was usually out there in free space, not down on the deck with umpty seven other lines in the way.
Something to consider.
Jim
hello, why can we see the pictures ?
Try to download «Photobucket fix » extension on your browser ,chrome or firefox,that will make them visible I guess
ok thank you Zoly99sask problem solved