school for model ship building

DISCLAIMER: My humble opinion

only a very few possess an artistic talent, gift, or ability of building ships from scratch. Most of the on coming communities that want to even get into this wonderful hobby, first have to learn the ships nautical terms and body plans which takes a long time unless a person is gifted in such areas. Instead of the encouragement of Hahn, I see a disconnect and discouragement from common folk that want to pursue the hobby. To me, his doctrine and philosophy is too strict and almost borders a line of arrogance against those that are unable to understand the complexities of scratch building. Which there again has a propensity of weeding out those that want to pursue the hobby. In other words, unless a person can’t build a ship from scratch they are not worthy in his eyes.
However, I also applaud anyone willing to take on the task to educate the rest of us on how to scratch building.

I think you may be missing an important point. There are two activities that produce models of ships. One is assembling ship model kits and the other is building ship models from scratch. Both are enjoyable pursuits and for that reason both are worthy of being pursued by those who enjoy doing so. While they have many aspects in common, there are some significant differences between the two and between those who pursue each. Scratch building requires a far greater commitment and dedication of its practitioners. In return, building ship models from scratch alone offers the only opportunity to produce a unique original example of the ship modeling art. Assembling ship model kits also provides an opportunity to produce a ship model, and for some provides satisfaction in doing so, but by its very nature, no kit can ever produce an original expression of the ship modeler's art.

I disagree with your assertion that "only a very few possess an artistic talent, gift, or ability of building ships from scratch." Those who lack talents or gifts can make up the difference with ability because, of the three, ability can be learned in quantities sufficient to make up for any lack of the other two. It's not rocket science. Every bit of it is clearly presented in any number of books on the subject. The reason you might perceive those who build from scratch as "the few," is only because "the many" lack the dedication and intellectual curiosity to pursue a hobby that requires reading and research. What separates the "men" from the "boys" is the size of their libraries.

It seems to have become fashionable today for those whose abilities and accomplishments are inferior to accuse those whose are superior to theirs of being "elitist" or "arrogant." It seems their goal is to "lower the net" to accommodate the lowest common denominator and to make real life more like the Special Olympics where "everyone gets a prize." The folly in shaming those who excel for hurting the feelings of those who don't is that excellence is devalued, and mediocrity becomes the norm. Valuing excellence over mediocrity occasions no apology. Indeed, the qualitative measure of a ship model is in every aspect how close it approaches perfection in the areas of its originality, historical accuracy, choice of materials, technical execution, and artistic expression and presentation. So also, is the status of ship modelers measured because the essence of ship modeling is the solitary pursuit of excellence for its own sake. Anyone who elects to "take a pass" on learning the prerequisites for achieving excellence for whatever reason cannot begin to claim any right to the same respect as those who make and keep a commitment to acquiring the knowledge and skill necessary to progressively approach excellence in their modeling endeavors.

Kit manufacturers once provided a machine-carved rough hull blank, some strip wood and doweling, a few bits of string and wire, and a few cast pot metal parts, along with a set of plans, and, if you were lucky, a typewritten page or two of "general instructions." Those early kits from Model Shipways (the "yellow box" kits,) Bluejacket Shipcrafters, Marine Models, and Fisher's essentially demanded the same skills required for scratch building. It really wasn't possible to build those early models without having what today would be considered basic scratch building knowledge and skills. Over the years, though, technology has enabled kit manufacturers to provide laser cut wooden parts and extensively detailed instructions which permit those who follow them to produce respectable models with little or no prior knowledge or experience of the subject matter. To be sure, assembling these modern ship model kits provide the modeler with an introduction to the larger enterprise of ship modeling, but only to a point. Kits alone can never alone provide the depth of knowledge and experience demanded of a serious scratch builder. That requires a substantial investment of time, and money, in at least a basic research library on the broad spectrum of subjects encompassed by ship modeling itself and a true love of and near total immersion in the subject matter. For the truly committed, that research, study, and learning is one of, if not the most, enjoyable and satisfying aspect of the avocation. Those who choose to avoid that by simply buying a "canned model" in a kit, should not feel slighted by those who don't. They should own their choice, accepting that the costs of that choice are the consequent limitations they've chosen to live with.

This phenomenon is apparent in nearly all skilled endeavors. Anybody can make spaghetti and meatballs using canned spaghetti sauce, but that won't qualify them as a gourmet Italian chef. Anybody can buy a frozen apple pie but shouldn't expect to be complemented on what a great baker they are. Anybody can complete a "paint-by-numbers" kit, but they shouldn't take offense that it didn't win a prize at their local art fair. Nobody who cooks with pre-prepared canned and frozen foods or paints "paint-by-numbers" pictures has any standing to accuse accomplished, classically trained chefs or renowned artists of being "arrogant" or "elitist" when they try to "run with the big dogs." Finding oneself wanting when measuring oneself against others ought not to engender feelings of being "looked down upon," but rather motivate one to improve themselves in order to measure up... or, if they don't wish to expend that energy, which in the case of something as trivial as a hobby is entirely justifiable, accept the limitations of that decision.

Looking at it from the other end of the telescope, there is little as annoying to any experienced craftsman as being asked how to do something and then, when providing the answer, have to listen to contrary argument in response from those who obviously don't know what they are talking about because they asked the question in the first place. No position is more nonsensical than that "the perfect is the enemy of the good" in reference to an endeavor which is of its very essence the pursuit of excellence in detail, however impossible achieving such perfection may be. While I dispute the existence of such folks, it may be, should they actually exist, "that those that are unable to understand the complexities of scratch building" are no more capable of seriously pursuing scratch building than "deaf, dumb, and blind boys" are of playing pinball, so why should anyone bother to accommodate them? It's beyond me why those who expressly favor assembling kit models because "they don't want to be bothered" with the background research and study of scratch building and would rather limit their attention to assembling kits, would have any cause to expect respect equal to those who "enjoy the bother."

Make no mistake about it, the only distinction between a serious and accomplished scratch builder and a "common person" who "couldn't build a ship model from scratch" is that the accomplished scratch builder took the time to learn how. It is that commitment that ultimately separates the fly specks from the pepper. All of us must learn to walk before we run. Nobody should feel bad about walking while they are learning to run. Neither should anyone who doesn't wish to learn to run resent those who don't to wait for them to catch up.
 
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once again there is a truth to this and this master class of builders back in the day did shape the attitude of the Nautical Research Guild. The guild did not want to be a "hobby" level group or the journal to be a hobby magazine. They were into the dogma of the master class and articles like Models that Should not be Built were their main stay. However, in time the solid master class builders were replace by a hollow arrogance of a new generation.

Yes, there was a time when the NRG was a serious academic guild that strived to maintain the highest standards of accuracy. Not so today. The NRG is now controlled by a number of kit manufacturers and aftermarket modeling supplies retailers who have coopted that tax exempt non-profit organization for their own personal financial benefit by using it to advertise their own products. (Some of which, quite frankly, are the best on the market.) Consequently, MSW has become "all kits - all the time." There are, it seems from a review of their postings, as many threads about plastic airplane models, plastic tanks and armor models, and plastic model cars, as there are about boat and ship models. This explains MSW forum's rabid opposition to "pirated" ship model kits being marketed throughout the world. I happen to agree that intellectual property "pirates" ought to have their heads set upon a pike, but I lack the motivation of their "dog in the fight."

It is truly unfortunate that what was a valuable academic resource that could number among its members all the living greats in the field as active members has deteriorated to what it now is. The "greats" are still out there with more moving up the ladder every day, but the good ones are "doing their own thing" and can't be bothered with the level of discourse now evident.
 
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back in the late 1960s you were told either your going to college or you will end up working in the steel mills. For me i went the way of graphic arts and design, industrial arts and drafting. Out of school it became clear getting into the trade either you had to know someone or have exceptional natural talent or both. Getting into the trade i was faced with a 4 year apprenticeship what you learn in school and what went on in the real world were not quite the same thing. The journeymen ruled, you were at the low end, at the bottom. It took 28 years to be making the big bucks and working for top advertisings agencies, then i walked away.
It was no surprise to me when meeting the top dogs in this art it was the same deal student and master. Respect the position withing the hierarchy.

It is truly unfortunate that what was a valuable academic resource that could number among its members all the living greats in the field as active members has deteriorated to what it now is. The "greats" are still out there with more moving up the ladder every day, but the good ones are "doing their own thing" and can't be bothered with the level of discourse now evident.

it is a matter of survival the guild began to collapse in on itself because they were trying to sell themselves to a market that is 90% hobby kit builders. The beginning of the end came when they turned on themselves. If your going to claim yourself a master builder, you better be perfect. So, we do not like how you framed your models, we don't like all those little people all over your models, your gun port is off by 1/32 of an inch. guys like Harold Hahn and Bob Bruckshaw walked away to do their own thing.
The guild became an oligarchy where a small number of people began running things in their favor for profit within a non profit organization.

The discussion so far is showing how this all came about and it is defining the structure going forward. What once was and what it is now. The who's who and what they did. It was well said by Bob Cleek and Roger Pellett.

if there are no other comments or questions then let's begin with lesson one


the plan


 
Very interesting discussion! I have great respect and admiration for the very high level of knowledge, skill, and persistence of scratch model ship builders. I am not one. In fact, I'm not even accomplished at executing the average model ship kit. I appreciate seeing what is possible in the art of scratch building and definitely know the difference in punching out a laser or CNC part vs. making that part. I've had to make scratch build some kit parts that have been missing or that I've broken. Being able to make the part, while noteworthy, but knowing what part to make and it's scale is even more amazing.

I've noticed in some threads I read in this and another forum that from time to time a reader will offer a comment on the placement, size, or even appropriateness of something the builder has executed. Sometimes these comments are so succinct that they come across as a bit rude to me. However, I assign nearly all of this to behavioral differences or more basically the diversity of cultures among forum readers and responders here. Surely they don't intend to be rude or condescending? Sort of like crossing the state line of New Jersey by a person who lives in Kentucky (I know, I have to go through Pennsylvania). NJ drivers seem to rely on their car horns to communicate advise to other drivers, especially out of staters. I've owned more than one vehicle in my life that I never knew what its horn sounded like.
 
I look forward to learning more about how real ships are built and models of them are built the same way, but to scale.

I got a taste of scratch building by the group build here a few years ago, but got stuck when I had to move and put most of my tools in storage and couldn't access the saws and sanders needed to build frames.

So I am waiting to see what I can learn from those who are Masters or close to it now in this hobby. My marine and nautical knowledge is but a drop in the bucket, and kit building doesn't get you much more than frustrated when the kit doesn't work out or instructions leave you lost at critical steps in the process, like rigging when you need to know the why and how, not taught in kit assembly.
 
I also applaud anyone willing to take on the task to educate the rest of us on how to scratch building.
I may be dead wrong, but I think the biggest obstacle to scratch building is space. If there is not enough room for the tools needed to cut, plane, turn, &c, kits seem to be the only way to go. But, many things can be made with a minimum of space that are superior to what comes in a kit. How about a semi kit or a "Bash Kit" for those with a few basic tools and limited space and a desire to put their own research and skills into play. If nothing else, it will reduce the cost of the basic kit and yield a better looking model in the end. Probably just a silly idea, but there it is.
Allan
 
You need a plan in order to find a plan huh? i have seen posts where someone will ask where do i find ship plans? that is a generic question to find a plan you first need to know the name of the vessel or the type of vessel. where it was built and the type of vessel a sailing ship, a naval ship, merchant ship, tug boat naval ships sailing or steel navy ships. Just about every maritime museum in the world will have some sort of plan collection. There are two basic types of plans one is drawn for model building and the other are architectural drawings. Here is an example from a museum's collection

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I may be dead wrong, but I think the biggest obstacle to scratch building is space. If there is not enough room for the tools needed to cut, plane, turn, &c, kits seem to be the only way to go. But, many things can be made with a minimum of space that are superior to what comes in a kit. How about a semi kit or a "Bash Kit" for those with a few basic tools and limited space and a desire to put their own research and skills into play. If nothing else, it will reduce the cost of the basic kit and yield a better looking model in the end. Probably just a silly idea, but there it is.
Allan

this is exactly what the first project will be so follow along.
 
what you get from a museum will look like this, all the information you need to build the ship is there IF you are a Naval Architect or you know how such a structure is built.

charlotte.jpg

The original architectural drawing has to be converted to modeling plans and those drawings depend on what exactly you want to build.
 
I will follow along too, hoping to make that step up to full scratch building! Thanks Dave for starting this!
 
what you get from a museum will look like this, all the information you need to build the ship is there IF you are a Naval Architect or you know how such a structure is built.

View attachment 504962

The original architectural drawing has to be converted to modeling plans and those drawings depend on what exactly you want to build.

So far, great job! I didn't realize you were going to do an instructional series. If anybody pays attention, they'll see that anybody can scratch build ship models.
 
Yes, I agree with Bob Cleek's earlier post. I have a degree in associate architecture. I also worked in State Government in Roadway Design designing Highways for several years, establishing R.O.W., Drainage, Grades, etc.

That was a whole different discipline. Naval Architecture is a discipline and a class all on its own. I know if I were to push myself to grasp naval fully, then in time, I admit, I would get better at it.

As @Mike41 pointed out to me, "there is hardly a straight timber or line on a ship" - and further more, ship plans are in 2D which a person has to be able to look at different views to be able to ascertain (visualize) the 3D part.

That was back when I built his (Mike41's) Blandford from Scratch only with his plans.
So, this is at least some accomplishments I have done scratch building. Not saying I am overly proud of it, but I was able to make it through.




IMG_1545.JPG
 
That was back when I built his (Mike41's) Blandford from Scratch only with his plans.
So, this is at least some accomplishments I have done scratch building. Not saying I am overly proud of it, but I was able to make it through.

No reason not to be proud of that job! It looks like some very nice clean, crisp work.

I neglected to mention in my previous comments that one way to "shorten the leap" to scratch building is by using plans drawn for modeling. There are many around. This permits a modeler who has yet to learn drafting and model engineering to avoid reading original (and usually archaic) builder's plans and drawing up projected shapes. As I recall, the plans Harold Hahn sold (and I expect are still available somewhere) provided drawings of every frame and so on, all to scale dimensions. Easy-peasy. The only difference between building from scratch with modeling plans rather than building a kit is that you cut the wood pieces yourself ... and save several hundred dollars off the difference between the plans and the kit! Thumbs-Up
 
@Roger Pellett yes in heart at least, and was looking thru the Wisconsin Historical Society photo collection to try to find a worthy subject. An unfinished project is a 1:90 Daniel J Morrell for the HO ore dock, in the model railroading era (and pre-wooden ship modelling;)
cheers Scott
 
@Roger Pellett yes in heart at least, and was looking thru the Wisconsin Historical Society photo collection to try to find a worthy subject. An unfinished project is a 1:90 Daniel J Morrell for the HO ore dock, in the model railroading era (and pre-wooden ship modelling;)
cheers Scott
That might be interesting for both model ship and model railroading hobbyist.
 
So, as a recap. Dave is the Sir Edward Hawk still going to be the first lesson and if so when do you (we) plan to start?
 
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