Soleil Royal 1671 modified Heller kit

[Iterum]

Great progress...

 

[GuyM]

Hi to quickly reply : '' Je suis unique dessus l'onde et mon roi l'est dans le monde''....This is what was engraved at the base of the foremast
and visible from the forecastle of the ship
To try to translate that would be something like this: ''I am one of a kind on the waves, as my king is on earth'' I think)))))))))

Progress is very slow as I have many other obligations, but I'm about to finish the hull half which I had shown earlier, so I'll post that soon
It will loook quite different from the stereotypes of that ship)))))

 

[Hubac’s Historian]

Excited to see your progress, Guy!

 

[GuyM]

I hope I'll be up to people's expectations))))

 

[Hubac’s Historian]

Guy - you exceed public expectations every minute of your Soleil Royal life. I say that as a true admirer of your body of research and your willingness to ask questions, postulate theory, and to push the narrative forward. When one sparks interest, as you are undoubtably doing, who knows what may result. Keep going - it is already awesome! By the way - the work you are doing is also superb and inventive, and the best things that Kit-Bash builds are made from.

 

[GuyM]

Cheee....I'm not sure I deserve all that))))))))))))))))

 

[Hubac’s Historian]

You do - please trust me on that.

 

[GuyM]

Well.....thanks)

 

[Uwek]

So, on this log I am in the very early process of modifying and building the ship as close as possible to what it would have looked like in the spring of 1671 when the ship was to make its maiden voyage along with 4 others for the king's visit at the new Rochefort shipyard, which he cancelled, but the ships went out anyway....
The document below describes what would have been the history of the Soleil Royal and the other royal ships of that period. As well, I'm trying to reproduce the ship from a plastic Heller 1/100 kit ( 1/95 makes more sense) by modifying all the details of the decorations on the sides, the correction of the number of cannons and some structural compartments on the different decks; I am not an expert at this, so please remember when you comment on the work
The basis of the design on the stern and side galeries is from Tanneron's Soleil Royal, so they have been opened up and the interior of the galeries decorated; I have not used a wood kit because the decoration work would have been much too extensive and I do not have the abilities that some who are building ships on this site have. If you have questions on the why there are differences with my build versus others, I sugest you first read the documnt below ( if you can read french of course)
because it will answer a lot of your inquiries. If you do not read French, ask me your questions and I will answer them in accordance with what is written on that document, which also reflects my view of course

From the first pic, one can see major decor changes, I still need to scrape off the original decor between the upper portholes, I don't believe there was any of this type since that is a symbol that appears on ships near the end of the century; the refit version of the Soleil Royal had them, but not at that location. it will be replaced with the decors on the images at the end. There can be a lot of flexibility with the side decoration since there is nothing as far as information on the ships of the mid-century except for what seems to be a generalization of the fleur de lys design on the upper part, which was found on the Royal Louis, the Royal Duc ( Reyne) and on the Royal Dauphin. The figurehead is what I found on the net, what used to be a mairmais which I scaled down a bit and reworked the arms....It isn't finished as you can tell)) The work is still VERY rough, but I wanted to make all the modifications before finishing the surfaces...

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Hallo @GuyM
we wish you all the BEST and a HAPPY BIRTHDAY

 

[Hubac’s Historian]

Happy Birthday, Guy! How’s the ship coming?

 

[GuyM]

Hey you all Thank you for your kind wishes
As for the ship, well, I had many other things to be done, and to be frank I lost a bit of motivation for a while)))
I am slowly getting back to it by installing the forechannels on one side, and I needed to recalculate where the slits have to be to clear the top canon row; they they be installed under that battery, along with some more moldings
Pics to come, but in a while only

 

[aurélien wolff]

Adding this to my fellowed thread, I intend to get it for my birthday and do it as a what if original SR with a full blue hull, I see you choosed to keep the kit "bouteilles" and corrected them over making new one from scratch.

 

[GuyM]

Hi Tell me; what brings you to believe the ship was blue? the aquarelles from Pierre Vary which were probably a color suggestion for the reconstructed version in 1690. The blue was the most expensive of the colors and the king had ordered in 1686 that no expensive colors were to be used on ships going forward; an exception would have been for smaller areas on the two bigger warships, the Soleil Royal and the Royal Louis, which never got the refit and was instead replaced in 1692. As for the very first version of 1671, though there is nothing written about the exact color it could have been, it is doubtful to me theywould have painted it blue.
There are no drawings of the first side galleries (bouteilles) for the first version, only for the rebuilt one; therefore I am relying on the Tanneron model. The reason being that he has seen apparently drawings from when Puget reworked the stern decors, a drawing which is supposed to be somewhere in the archives of either thePalais de chaillot where the actual naval museum is, or in the the Louvre's archives where the museum used to be in the 19th century....I'm still trying to find a clue of where they are))
If you cn ead french, I can send you a document I made about the Soleil Royal and the other royal ships; I found quite a bit of information and if you're interested in the subject, it's an informative read...

 

[GuyM]

Hi Tell me; what brings you to believe the ship was blue? the aquarelles from Pierre Vary which were probably a color suggestion for the reconstructed version in 1690. The blue was the most expensive of the colors and the king had ordered in 1686 that no expensive colors were to be used on ships going forward; an exception would have been for smaller areas on the two bigger warships, the Soleil Royal and the Royal Louis, which never got the refit and was instead replaced in 1692. As for the very first version of 1671, though there is nothing written about the exact color it could have been, it is doubtful to me theywould have painted it blue.
There are no drawings of the first side galleries (bouteilles) for the first version, only for the rebuilt one; therefore I am relying on the Tanneron model. The reason being that he has seen apparently drawings from when Puget reworked the stern decors, a drawing which is supposed to be somewhere in the archives of either thePalais de chaillot where the actual naval museum is, or in the the Louvre's archives where the museum used to be in the 19th century....I'm still trying to find a clue of where they are))
If you cn ead french, I can send you a document I made about the Soleil Royal and the other royal ships; I found quite a bit of information and if you're interested in the subject, it's an informative read...

Oups, a few tapping mistakes)) sorry

 

[aurélien wolff]

I'm french(and the last LOS! number on the french navy during the revolution and consulat definitly helped tempting me to get it with the book "heller-la maquette à la française")and my what if will be based on this

(pinterest)

source: http://santisimatrinidad.jun.pl/printview.php?t=2436&start=0&sid=454d6897610465eea1f030a735f4d703
The LOS! 63 cover: https://caraktere.com/los/853-los-n63.html

 

[GuyM]

Ok; donc, la maquette de Heller représente la maquette de Tanneron, à l'exception qu'ils on décidé de fermer les boutiells probablement pour sauver sur les coûts de productions; faire l'intérieur et ajuster des pièces moulées auaient été plutôt difficile en production de pluseurs examplaires. Donc, si on veut se rapprocher de la maquette de tanneron, on doit ouvrir, percer les décors de la rampe,et depcouper les décors sur les surfaces enlevées et les fixer directement sur le bordé; de la patience est de mise pour cela...
Quand aux deux aquarelles de Vary,elles ont fait partie d'une soumission à prix fait lors du radoub du Soleil Royal. Il est très douteux que le vaisseau est eu cette couleur à cause du règlement de 1686 et du fait que peinturer toute cette surface aurait eu un coût faramineux, au moment où on tentait de limiter les coût de décors de vaisseaux.
Je vous envoie le document, il répondra à beaucoup de vos questions et vous aidera à décider quelle version et quelles couleurs vous voudrez représenter votre maquette.

P.S. J'ai vu une maquette Heller avec le bleu partout.....Ce n'est pas du meilleur effet lorsque terminé; enfin, c'est mon avis
Bonne lecture

 

[Hubac’s Historian]

Aurelien, you should start a build-log for your model, when you are ready to begin. I am always interested to see how others may modify this kit.

I’ve seen at least one build in all blue, and I have to admit that it is intriguing, but as Guy says - improbable that an entire ship would be painted in Ultra Marine. I suppose it may be possible, though, that a blue made from copper oxides could have been used.



In any case - start a log and you will have many interested parties.

 

[aurélien wolff]

I'm laying out the terrain before getting it (my birthday is on november 30th), hence why I'm doing all those research. I think it still look good with a full blue hull, since mine will be a what if, doing it like that isn't a issue. The kit still look good from the box, I wouldn't be so harsh on its innacuracies since it was done int he 70' so not all information were available, tho some aren't excused by the time since they're not on the tanneron model.

Thanks for the article Guy, do you have the heller brochure? I think it'd help building it.

 

[Hubac’s Historian]

Heller did an admirable job of filling-in the blanks from the Tanneron model. In so many ways, it is a faithful copy of the Tanneron model. As anyone who has attempted to place this model within any particular context of her history (1671, 1689, or SR2 in 1693) finds, the primary visual information is a contradictory patchwork of fragments. Even among sets of drawings (bow, quarter and stern) by Berain, which are known to be of a particular ship from a particular time - there are often odd contradictions; for example, SR’s Berain bow drawing shows her without a forecastle. There was never a time in the history of SR1 or 2, when she didn’t have a forecastle.

I have written pretty extensively about the inconsistencies in Berain drawings for Le Brillant and L’Agreable, for two examples, and the problems those contradictions present to a modelmaker like Tanneron, in his time. His model of L’Agreable, for example, diverges from the Berain drawings in the same way, with regard to the number of stern windows, as with his model of SR:




Within the quarters, there should be seven windows, but for some reason he has chosen to only model 5. Perhaps he felt these smaller, likely false lights, muddied the design. I can not say.

I was faced with a similar problem when trying to model the Berain/Vary quarter gallery. Berain draws 5 false lights on the lower tier of the QG:



As I attempted to clarify the design, I found it much better to reduce this number to three lights, and then suddenly the design was more consistent with the construction trends in 1689:



This light re-design was much clearer, IMO, and gave better flow from one level to the next.

 

[aurélien wolff]

A lot of speculation seems to be involved when doing the stern ornament/sculpture of the SR. From "heller -la maquette à la française" wich tell the company history, J-C Carbonel said heller thought the bouteilles "galleries" represented the troilets and they decided to close them basing themselves on illustration. The book also give a making off of the model. Won't highjack Guy thread any longer, I'd like to see what his SR will look like when over.