Soleil Royal - Heller 1/100 Back to work!

[Dfolgado]

Please to place some visual evidenses(pictures) which You coscider could be solid arguments, and will confirm Your doubts, mentioned above, regarding channels positions, for this model ?
I'm very interested in it !))
All The Best!
Kirill

Most references show evidence of the channels at a lower position, although there are some that shows them at the position that I have on my model.

There is inclusive one very well known painting that shows a french vessel contemporary with Soleil Royal with the channels in the upper position:



This one representing Soleil Royal itself, clearly shows the channels in the lower position:



Most of existing paintings regarding Soleil Royal, shows the lower position:







This is a page of a German book about Soleil Royal, which I don’t have, but it does show it with the channels in the upper position:



Another painting showing the lower position:





I also found a couple of drawings in the book “Les Vaisseaux du Roi Soleil”, showing Royal Louis with channels in the upper position:



The model from the Louis XV that is in Paris museum from 1700 also shows the lower postion:




My “educated” guess is that probably the channels should be in the lower position, but as there exist some evidence regarding the contrary, I think I will proceed as it is now…

 

[Hubac’s Historian]

Really nice job of engraving these channels, in-place, Duarte! I don't know how you did it without breaking them off, and to have done it so precisely is really incredible. I agree with your interpretive choice to keep the channels where they are. I think that some alterations are worth the extra re-work, and some are not. You have so much nice shading/patination of the blue - that trying to scrape away and touch-up the channel knee "ghosts" and re-paint is far from a guarantee of success. As my own project charges on into its 8th (11/2024) year, I am increasingly sympathetic to taking the lesson, and moving on. The work you are doing is extraordinary, and surely an inspiration to current and future builders.

 

[Dfolgado]

Thanks a lot for your nice words Marc! As a matter of fact it was after looking at your channels that I decided to do something on mine…

Even yesterday, I found what I think to be your original building thread on modelshipworld from 2016, believe me, doesn’t matter if you are in your 8th year working on your model. I am pretty sure that even 50 years from now, people will still get inspired from your works and investigation on the subject. I love your idea of building a big Solei Royal from wood! I immediately start dreaming about a 1/24 arsenal model of Soleil Royal, we still can’t be charged for dreaming can we?

Engraving the channels in place is in fact a nightmare, and I still have four to go! But as you said, I think the improvement on these parts, that were so “empty” in the kit does worth the extra effort.

I will move on now, engraving the remaining channels and leave them where they are. Changing their location is a very difficult operation and with a lot of risks. I agree with your argument, just does not worth it.

In the meantime, I’ll keep reading your 2016 thread, this is always a source of good inspiration to me. Of course I also have my eyes on your current build thread, just to check out the news… just keep going, never, never give up!!

 

[Uwek]

The location of the chanels, means the height where they were mounted and installed was depending from the time period.
I am not sure when exactly, but in earlier times the channels were lower and one time the shipwrights realized that it is better to lift them up......

 

[Hubac’s Historian]

In the Mid-17th C., English shipwrights placed the channels beneath the middle battery on three-deckers. As the century progressed, they raised them to beneath the main deck battery. The French started high, in the 1670s, and then lowered them as the century progressed.

 

[Dfolgado]

Decided to make my own deadeyes, I just don’t like the wood ones that are available on the market, the sizes are very limited, and also the form is not very good looking. Not to speak the price!

These ones are for the main mast shrouds and have a diameter of 5 mm (the bigger ones).

This takes a lot of work, but in the end of the day, I can make all sizes needed, and I’m not restricted to the regular comercial dimensions.

Normally, deadeyes diameter, are half of the corresponding mast diameter, or double the circumference of the attached rigging, shrouds, stays, etc…
From here, we can understand the importance of not being limited to a couple of sizes…

I have to make about 40 units of these 5mm, later all other sizes. These are just for the main mast shrouds.

 

[dockattner]

That's a very nice round needle file - any chance you know where you found that? Maybe even a link? I haven't been able to source one that small...

 

[Dfolgado]

That's a very nice round needle file - any chance you know where you found that? Maybe even a link? I haven't been able to source one that small...

Fine Tools in Germany.

You can see it here:

Needle files | FINE TOOLS

Needle files are small files used for fine work and smaller work pieces.

www.fine-tools.com

It is the 1mm round file.

 

[dockattner]

Fine Tools in Germany.

You can see it here:

Needle files | FINE TOOLS

Needle files are small files used for fine work and smaller work pieces.

www.fine-tools.com

It is the 1mm round file.

Thank you, my friend!

 

[Jimsky]

That's a very nice round needle file - any chance you know where you found that? Maybe even a link? I haven't been able to source one that small...

Paul. look for escapement files. BTW, Corradi has those

Round Grobet Escapement Files

Also known as square handle needle files, these files are used in watchmaking, finishing, extrusion dies, jewelry repair and other fine work. Length of cut varies according to shape from 1 9/16" to 2 9/16". Overall length is 5 1/2". First quality. Cut 0 is the coarsest, cut 6 the finest. Click...

contenti.com

Escapement Files - CORRADI Shop

CORRADI Shop - Escapement Files

www.corradishop.com

 

[dockattner]

Paul. look for escapement files. BTW, Corradi has those

Round Grobet Escapement Files

Also known as square handle needle files, these files are used in watchmaking, finishing, extrusion dies, jewelry repair and other fine work. Length of cut varies according to shape from 1 9/16" to 2 9/16". Overall length is 5 1/2". First quality. Cut 0 is the coarsest, cut 6 the finest. Click...

contenti.com

Escapement Files - CORRADI Shop

CORRADI Shop - Escapement Files

www.corradishop.com

Excellent. Do you have any of these? Neither store shares the diameter of these files...

 

[WilliamM]

I made this cannon in 3D :

View attachment 451659View attachment 451660

Absolutely beautiful! Can you make them in 1/100 scale?

Bill

 

[Jimsky]

Excellent. Do you have any of these? Neither store shares the diameter of these files...

yes, I do. At the very end (point) it is 0.3mm and close to the handle, it is 1.9mm The one I have is Grobet + Valorbe made in Swiss #8 (actually, I think it is 00 cut). The #4 is the square file.

 

[Dfolgado]

yes, I do. At the very end (point) it is 0.3mm and close to the handle, it is 1.9mm The one I have is Grobet + Valorbe made in Swiss #8 (actually, I think it is 00 cut). The #4 is the square file.

View attachment 454043

View attachment 454044

Hello Jim,

In Europe I buy escapement files from:

R.M.A. TOOLS - Italian made, high quality files and rasps

Online Shop of high quality files and rasps, entirely made in Italy by CORRADI. Ships internationally.

en.rma-tools.com

They have cut 4 as the smoothest, 56 teeth per cm.

The Swiss cut 00, I think have 51 teeth per inch (20 teeth per cm).

My 1 mm round file (regular needle file, not escapement) has 46 teeth per cm.

From my experience, and the for the kind of work that I do, very small files only worth it if they are very smooth, let’s say more than 40 teeth per cm.

 

[Dfolgado]

Still trying to get/prepare all the necessary tools and jigs to produce the deadeyes…

Got a couple more small round files and more are on the way!



These are 1mm and 1,2mm diameter from cut 1 to cut 4 (31 teeth/cm to 56 teeth/ cm)

Already have 3mm, 4mm, 4,5mm and 5mm deadeyes, this is mainly just for the lower masts, upper masts must be a lot smaller:



I want to go all the way until 1mm deadeyes, let’s see if it will be possible, I just ordered some Vallorbe escapement files all the way until cut 10 (156 teeth/cm!!) This is total insanity, but let’s see how it goes! For now I’m enjoying a lot doing this.

I just love precision tools, that’s why I’m becoming almost blind of working with such small parts…

Have a nice weekend!

 

[dockattner]

Still trying to get/prepare all the necessary tools and jigs to produce the deadeyes…

Got a couple more small round files and more are on the way!

View attachment 455117

These are 1mm and 1,2mm diameter from cut 1 to cut 4 (31 teeth/cm to 56 teeth/ cm)

Already have 3mm, 4mm, 4,5mm and 5mm deadeyes, this is mainly just for the lower masts, upper masts must be a lot smaller:

View attachment 455118

I want to go all the way until 1mm deadeyes, let’s see if it will be possible, I just ordered some Vallorbe escapement files all the way until cut 10 (156 teeth/cm!!) This is total insanity, but let’s see how it goes! For now I’m enjoying a lot doing this.

I just love precision tools, that’s why I’m becoming almost blind of working with such small parts…

Have a nice weekend!

Thanks to your build log and @Jimsky recommendation I have also added a few of these escapement files to my workbench... I was able to source these in the US through Contenti which saved loads on shipping.

 

[WilliamM]

Most references show evidence of the channels at a lower position, although there are some that shows them at the position that I have on my model.

There is inclusive one very well known painting that shows a french vessel contemporary with Soleil Royal with the channels in the upper position:

View attachment 453348

This one representing Soleil Royal itself, clearly shows the channels in the lower position:

View attachment 453349

Most of existing paintings regarding Soleil Royal, shows the lower position:

View attachment 453350

View attachment 453351

View attachment 453352

This is a page of a German book about Soleil Royal, which I don’t have, but it does show it with the channels in the upper position:

View attachment 453353

Another painting showing the lower position:

View attachment 453355

View attachment 453362View attachment 453363

I also found a couple of drawings in the book “Les Vaisseaux du Roi Soleil”, showing Royal Louis with channels in the upper position:

View attachment 453364View attachment 453365

The model from the Louis XV that is in Paris museum from 1700 also shows the lower postion:


View attachment 453366View attachment 453367

My “educated” guess is that probably the channels should be in the lower position, but as there exist some evidence regarding the contrary, I think I will proceed as it is now…

Kirill,

What is the name of the German book?

Bill

 

[dafi]

Very nice work, especially love the deadeyes

Please be careful with the sources in #301. All the ones but the last 5 ones are modern interpretations. Only the last 5 ones seem to be contemorary and are valid as source.

The german book was of a forums mate. The model is very nicely build, but the research was very, even very-very anachronistic or better saying fancyful ...

XXXDAn

 

[Dfolgado]

Very nice work, especially love the deadeyes

Please be careful with the sources in #301. All the ones but the last 5 ones are modern interpretations. Only the last 5 ones seem to be contemorary and are valid as source.

The german book was of a forums mate. The model is very nicely build, but the research was very, even very-very anachronistic or better saying fancyful ...

XXXDAn

Thanks for the info and the nice words Daniel!

Do you know where I can see more details about that model referred in the German book? Was it based on the Heller Soleil Royal?

I really would like to see more of it, but the book is unavailable on Amazon. Is there any other place where we canget it, or does it worth it?

 

[dafi]

Here is a link to the books description

Versailles der Meere – Die barocken Segelschiffe Ludwigs des XIV. im Kontext seiner Zeit - Bücher und Zeitschriften zum Thema - Das Wettringer Modellbauforum