Starter kit?

[Stuart Little]

If the Mamoli and Model Shipways longboat kit are the same, take a close look at the arrangement of the tiller and mainsheet horse.

View attachment 563600

As any sailor will instantly see, the tiller is on top of the horse and even from their advertising photos, it is obvious that this is a gross error as the lower mainsheet purchase block in the picture is fouling the tiller. Under sail, when the boom crosses the center line, it therefore necessarily forces the tiller to leeward, turning the boat uncontrollably into the wind! I discussed this error with the model's designer who maintained the position that he had based his model on the original in the National Museum, Greenwich and that is how the contemporary model in NMG's collection was built. He was indeed correct. In fact, there is also another similar contemporary small craft in the NMG's collection with the same error. While we cannot know for sure why this error appears in two models in the NMG's collection, it is indisputably grossly incorrect. The whole purpuse of a mainsheet horse is to permit the tiller to run beneath the horse so as to permit the lower mainsheet purchase block to slide along the horse over the tiller without fouling it. This may be explained by the possibility that another "lubber" who conserved these two models at some point. The designer's argument in the face of these facts was that his model was an exact "model of a model" in the NMG, so it wasn't an error. When you build the model, you can decide whether you want to build "a model of a model version" or the "model of a boat that would be capable of being sailed" version.

Other than that, it's a damn fine model. One of the best on the market in terms of design and accuracy in all other respects.

I can confirm that the kits are one and the same. Seems like a 'buy-out' has taken place unbeknown to us or some of us?

 

[danielsje]

For beginner kit ideas take look at Lauckstreetshipyard.com. Bob Hunt has several recommendations plus building practicums if you are in need of support.

 

[PD Lieutenant]

My first wooden ship was the Occre Albatros. It was a good kit and she taught me a lot. It prepared me for my second ship, which turned out much better. The only issue with Occre is they won’t replace broken or missing parts for free - you have to pay for shipping now. On my current ship a couple of the helm handles were broken. They wanted $10 bucks to send it to me. Other than that issue they are great kits.

 

[mick]

Hi Mick,
If you don’t get a reply to your offer, I would be interested. I live near Oxford so it would have to be posted as you are in Lancashire.

Sorry for my late reply Dennis I've only just seen your message. I have another member who I'm waiting for a response from regarding the postage cost so if I don't hear from him soon I will get back to you. Regards Mick

 

[mberg]

It's interesting news to me that Model Shipways is cutting corners on parts and materials. That's not the sort of thing I'd expect Dave Antscherl to stand for. I did notice that Model Expo bought out the Midwest Products wooden model line and are now selling those.

It's not up to David, unfortunately. He was contracted to design the kits and that was the end of it. He did what he did and was paid well for it. He's not happy with the current state of things, but accepts it since he has no control over the intellectual property he sold.

I've spoken to him directly about this.

 

[Bob Cleek]

It's not up to David, unfortunately. He was contracted to design the kits and that was the end of it. He did what he did and was paid well for it. He's not happy with the current state of things, but accepts it since he has no control over the intellectual property he sold.

I've spoken to him directly about this.

If you have occasion to speak with Mr. Antscherl further, do pass my condolences on to him. I've been ship modeling for over half a century, but It's only in the last few years that I've paid any attention to the wider community of modelers, primarily via online forums, etc. I'm quite taken aback by the crass commercialization of the ship modeling artform by the current "paint by numbers" ship model kit industry. I've nothing against kits per se, but I take exception to the fraudulent promises of "museum quality" and "anybody can do it" marketing, as well as the frequently mediocre quality of the kits themselves. They cheapen the artform.

 

[Roger Pellett]

Hear Hear! And invite him to joint our “Gang of four” refugees from MSW here on SOS.

 

[Bob Cleek]

Hear Hear! And invite him to joint our “Gang of four” refugees from MSW here on SOS.

Oh, I'm pretty sure that there's more than just we four around here in that gang. Lots more!

 

[frankieg]

I started my building with the AL cutter "Le Renard". Vanguard is way better quality, with some pre cut items, eg deck. There's plenty of quality building materials in there. I think a cutter is a good start, especially one from Vanguard. Good luck.

 

[Korsan]

Hello all

I am looking for my first wooden starter kit (over 60 years in plastic) and the

"Vanguard Models" HM Armed Cutter Sherbourne – 1763 is looking like a good one to begin with.

Is it a good company to deal with or is there any other kit makers to consider?
All advice is greatly

Hello all

I am looking for my first wooden starter kit (over 60 years in plastic) and the

"Vanguard Models" HM Armed Cutter Sherbourne – 1763 is looking like a good one to begin with.

Is it a good company to deal with or is there any other kit makers to consider?
All advice is greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Dave

Imho opinion naming a model as a starter kit does not mean it can be build easily.The measure is how perfect you can build it. In fact all consist of Hull Deck Masts Yards etc. The so called not starter kits differ in details where you need more patience and time and more tool for your workshop (probably you will need some more tools for woodworking )

 

[Korsan]

Hello all

I am looking for my first wooden starter kit (over 60 years in plastic) and the

"Vanguard Models" HM Armed Cutter Sherbourne – 1763 is looking like a good one to begin with.

Is it a good company to deal with or is there any other kit makers to consider?
All advice is greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Dave

Hello all

I am looking for my first wooden starter kit (over 60 years in plastic) and the

"Vanguard Models" HM Armed Cutter Sherbourne – 1763 is looking like a good one to begin with.

Is it a good company to deal with or is there any other kit makers to consider?
All advice is greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Dave

Hi Dave
Imho opinion naming a model as a starter kit does not mean it can be build easily.The measure is how perfect you can build it and est your ability without spending much money.In fact all consist of Hull Deck Masts Yards etc. The so called not starter kits differ in details where you need more patience and time and more tool for your workshop (probably you will need some more tools for woodworking )
My starter kit in 1981was Adler von Lübeck and i finished it in 3 years
Merry Christmas and a happy new year
Fethi

 

[Bob Cleek]

Don't expect your many years of experience assembling plastic model kits to be of much help in building wooden ship kits. The two are quite different animals entirely. It's as if a sculptor has worked for many years sculpting in clay and then decides he wants to sculpt by carving stone or wood. Note also that many, if not most, kit manufacturers' so-called "starter kits," are just their bottom-of-the-line products and for that reason often more difficult to build well than more expensive kits. I would recommend you buy a few basic books on ship modeling and read up first before spending a lot of money on a kit which may not suit your needs. In fact, there's really no need for a kit at all. Get a book that has some very basic plans for building full size wooden boats. Pick a simple one, like a plywood rowboat. Go to the hobby shop and buy some scale plywood and such and build the simple full-size boat to the scale of your choice. Follow the instructions in the modeling books you find. Build your model much like you'd build the real boat, only smaller. You'll end up building better models and spending a lot less on poor quality ship model kits. You can then buy some nice tools with the savings as you go along. Start simple and strive for perfection. Small steps. Walk before you try to run.