Tecumseth 1815

The stern just did not look right the cap rail slanted backwards and it should have been level. Every stern i looked at the cap rail was level.

new stern2.jpgnew stern3.jpg

The problem i was having was trying to make the cap in one piece. The problem with that idea was there were to many bends and twists in the piece.

new stern4.jpg

it was suggested the center of the caprail was one piece and the two sides were seperate. The problem with that was the joint between the top and the side pieces, they just did not line up.

first thing i did was rip out the caprail and the right side piece. My thinking here was to leave the side pieces in place like on the left side. That was not going to work so i started to pry the left piece off. The plan now is to rip out the filler piece i tinted blue, the right side has been ripped out.

new stern1.jpg
 
Good evening Dave, what you are doing is very appreciated but in real there is no one particular piece, you risk distorting the model, this is my reflection
The stern just did not look right the cap rail slanted backwards and it should have been level. Every stern i looked at the cap rail was level.

View attachment 313051View attachment 313052

The problem i was having was trying to make the cap in one piece. The problem with that idea was there were to many bends and twists in the piece.

View attachment 313053

it was suggested the center of the caprail was one piece and the two sides were seperate. The problem with that was the joint between the top and the side pieces, they just did not line up.

first thing i did was rip out the caprail and the right side piece. My thinking here was to leave the side pieces in place like on the left side. That was not going to work so i started to pry the left piece off. The plan now is to rip out the filler piece i tinted blue, the right side has been ripped out.

View attachment 313050
 
When it came time for the railing i saw a problem. I set a piece of rail on the stanchion and noticed at the stern the railing has nothing to attach to. There is no way the end of the railing would butt against the stern and just float in the air at the end.
One solution is to add a knee like the bow and have the railing sitting on the knee. But i still had the issue with the caprail slanting. I need a solution to fix both problems.

new stern6.jpg

new stern5.jpg

at the bow there is a large knee that sits under the end of the railing

new stern7.jpg
 
When it came time for the railing i saw a problem. I set a piece of rail on the stanchion and noticed at the stern the railing has nothing to attach to. There is no way the end of the railing would butt against the stern and just float in the air at the end.
One solution is to add a knee like the bow and have the railing sitting on the knee. But i still had the issue with the caprail slanting. I need a solution to fix both problems.

View attachment 313057

View attachment 313056

at the bow there is a large knee that sits under the end of the railing

View attachment 313058
I'm sorry, I can't understand the translation
 
after removing the filler timber i replaced them with a post.

rail1.jpg


Starting at the bow i ran sections of railing along the tops of the stanchions

rail2.jpg

i left the timbers at the stern long until the last section of the railing went on. This way i can get the correct height from the slightl sweep of the railing as it approaches the stern.

rail3.jpg

rail4.jpg
 
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in 1800 there were not all that many shipwrights and ship carpenters around the great lakes so what i did was to take a look at all the drawings of early lake vessels. It is very possible the same ship builders who built the early vessels may of worked in the shipyards durning the war of 1812.

these two ships have the railing stop at the stern

carleton.jpgmaria 2.jpg

the Ontario has a railing across the stern

ontario final.jpg

side railing of the Royal George and Washington ends on a post

royal george final.jpg

washington final.jpg

now we come to the General Hunter built by the same ship builders as the Tecumseh. The side railing ends on the post but there is a rail across the stern.
I redid the Tecumseth stern based on these drawings.

gh1.jpggh2.jpg

lee final.jpg
 
Hi Dave, Congrats on finishing the model. I agree with Brian, it could be a really good project. If I may say, the model looks uncompleted. You may add treenails or breach the guns. Also, you may add bolts and eyerings all those small details make a model - complete, IMHO.
 
Looks like a great project Dave. Hope you might consider selling a timbering set for this model.

thanks

a few final notes on the build.

the project started out to be a kit but things went off the rails. I had a lot of time in research and drawing, i figured i went this far might as well finish what i started and take it on as a personal build.

My goal with the build was to reconstruct the Tecumseth and show the construction of the hull. I did enjoy building in a larger scale of 1:32 which allowed better details in the joinery. Everything just felt bigger and less delicate than building at a small scale.

As for the stern it is just an educated guess and turned out different than what was drawn on the original plan. Other details were left out such as the cabin and rigging of the cannons, gratings and hatch covers. You could say the model is more of a proof of design and concept and not so much as a fine detailed model.

There are CAD drawings and laser cutting files, however as i built the model i found the drawings for the bow and stern frames needed adjusting in their shape. The errors were fixed on the model and i did not go back to correct the plans as there was no need to do so.

The Tecumseth and her sister the Newash are interesting ships with a fine hull built for speed and the interesting tear drop shape to accommodate the two 24 pound cannons. Both the cannons and carronades were designed to fire over the railing rather than through it which was the more common method.

This was the first deck i built with curved planking, i was a bit worried about how it will look and if i could even do it. In the end i really like the deck with curved planking. i did leave a lot of decking off the model to show the deck beams, carlings and the heavy deck clamps and waterways. Much of the joinery on the deck is around the hatches and companionway.

From the CAD work the model can easly be converted to any scale and from a plank on frame to a plank on bulkhead hull. Much more detail can be added to the hull and a full rigging plan is available. There are molds for the guns in 1:48 as well as 1:32 scale.
I will leave this project as an open end just incase a group build forms or there is enough interest which would make the time worth it to go back and fix the plans.

do not try and use the following drawings they have been distorted to prevent use and are for viewing only. Seems a certain guild has little respect for IP theft and takes screen shots from Ship in Scale forum on a regular basis.

so that's it folks time to move on to another interesting build i have sitting here.

js plan3.jpgplan1.JPGplan2.JPGplan3.JPGplan4.JPGplan5.JPGplan6.JPGplan7.JPGplan8.JPG
 
Hi Dave, Congrats on finishing the model. I agree with Brian, it could be a really good project. If I may say, the model looks uncompleted. You may add treenails or breach the guns. Also, you may add bolts and eyerings all those small details make a model - complete, IMHO.

yes i agree 100% all the finer details would make this subject really stand out. Actually the goal was to make the model "uncompleted" because it leaves the Tecumseth wide open for anyone wanting to carry it to a fine scale model "finish line" with rigging the guns, showing nailed hull and deck planks a table and chair in the cabin and on it goes.
As for me i am calling it done
 
As you can see in post #114 there is nothing on the wreck to assist in the building of the deck but there is the actual deck plan.
So i know what was built but i do not know how it was built. There are questions like where the ends of the deck beams notched into the top of the clamp or notched over the clamp or both? Were deck knees used like lodging, hanging and dagger knees? I know carlings were used because they frame in the fore and aft sides of the hatches. Were ledges used?

View attachment 255697


What does a model builder do when they run out of information?

here is my approach
Six degrees of separation is the idea that all people on average are six, or fewer, social connections away from each other.
As a result, a chain of " friend of a friend " statements can be made to connect any two people in a maximum of six steps.
It is also known as the six handshakes rule.

how does this apply? well, like any craft or artisan trade there are guilds and unions and schools and apprenticeships programs. What happens is information is taught and passed on within the industry of ship buiding. Ship carpenters and master shipwrights went from yard to yard taking the knowledge with them and spreading it about. The odds are quite hight that the shipwrights who built these ships knew one another and were familiar with the lastest ideas and who was doing what and how.

sit back and take a read about the main shipwrights of the time and place and see if you spot any similarity between them.

while you do the reading i will prep up a 3D model of the deck beams and deck clamp and then get back to the build.

Henry Eckford (1775–1832) was a Scottish-born Shipbuilder, Naval Architect, Industrial Engineer, and entrepreneur who worked for
the United States Navy & the Navy of the Ottoman Empire in the early 19thC. After building a national reputation in the United States
through his Shipbuilding successes during the War of 1812, he became a prominent Business & Political figure in New York City in the 1810s,
1820s, & early 1830s. Eckford was born in Kilwinning, near Irvine, on 12th March 1775, the youngest of 5 sons. As a boy, he probably
trained as a Ship’s Carpenter in the Shipyard at Irvine on the Firth of Clyde. In 1791, at the age of 16, Eckford left Scotland to begin
a 5-year Shipbuilding Apprenticeship with his mother’s brother, the noted Scottish-born Canadian Shipwright John Black, at a Shipyard on
the St Lawrence River in Lower Canada. In 1796, he moved to New York City to work as a journeyman in a Boatyard on the East River.


William Moodie Bell Naval shipwright and farmer.
William Moodie Bell (1777-1837) was the son of John Bell and his wife Ann, née Stenhouse.
He was born on 9 January and baptized on 12 January 1777 in the parish of Aberdour, near
Kirkcaldy in Fifeshire, Scotland. He entered the employ of the Provincial Marine as a naval
shipwright and began his career at Amherstburg, Upper Canada, in June 1799. There he
designed and built vessels for the Great Lakes service. Many of these were lost in 1813 at the
Battle of Lake Erie, after which he was evacuated from Amherstburg, at the time of the retreat
from the Western District, and served thereafter at the Kingston dockyard. The Admiralty's
appointment of Thomas Strickland as Master Builder in Upper Canada displaced Bell from
that position, but in 1814 he was appointed as Strickland's assistant. Upon Strickland's death
in 1815, Bell became Acting Master Builder in Upper Canada until the end of 1816, when the
establishment at Kingston was reduced and Bell returned to Scotland.
Having succeeded in obtaining a government pension, Bell returned to Canada, where he
seems to have considered going into partnership with his brother John Bell (1779-1841) and
a French Canadian shipbuilder, François Romain, at Quebec, before settling down as a farmer
at Little River, Lower Canada.



MUNN, ALEXANDER, shipbuilder and shipowner; born 26 Sept. 1766 in Irvine, Scotland, son of John Munn, shipbuilder, and Catherine Edward;
m. 6 Dec. 1797 Agnes Galloway at Quebec, Lower Canada, and they had 11 children, of whom six died in infancy; d. there 19 May 1812.

Alexander Munn is a shadowy figure. Since his personal and business records have apparently not survived, the only direct evidence
about him consists of disparate references found in routinely generated sources such as notarial records, newspaper notices, and ship
and church registers. Difficult to work, these sources do not yield a rounded portrait. But the broad picture that emerges clearly indicates
he was a leading Quebec shipbuilder in the beginning stages of that highly productive sector of the city’s economy. It is Munn’s entrepreneurial function that provides the focus in the following sketch.

Munn undoubtedly learned the “mysteries” of shipbuilding from his father before immigrating to Quebec in or before May 1793. In the 1790s
the establishment of big-ship construction in the city implied a transfer of skills and capital in person from Britain. Certainly the cumulative evidence about British American shipbuilding in general shows a heavy reliance on Britain for technology (in the wide sense of the term), capital, and markets; the emergence of a native-born shipbuilder before about 1830 is rare.

Munn first appears in Quebec records in February 1794 when he described himself as a “ship carpenter” in a notarial act; by 1803, however,
he was calling himself a “shipbuilder.” These descriptions superficially suggest that he rose from journeyman to master craftsman within
the craft hierarchy, but in shipbuilding at Quebec at the turn of the 19th century the craft system seems to have been a vestigial formality
which bore little weight in the actual economy of shipyards. Apprenticeships, which were common, were clearly used by employing shipbuilders
primarily as a legal device to circumvent labour shortages, and the status of master shipbuilder did not entail any special political
privilege as it did at Saint John, N.B., where it carried with it admission to the freedom of the city.
The change in Munn’s title is more likely explained by what appears to have been a well-observed unwritten rule reserving the use of
the appellation of shipbuilder to those who operated substantial yards, as Munn did by the later date.

Beginning in the mid 1790s, at premises leased from the firm of Johnston and Purss [see James Johnston*] on the King’s Wharf in Lower Town,
and after 1806 as proprietor of an extensive shipyard at Anse des Mères, Munn frequently launched two large vessels a year, one in the
spring and the other in the fall. In addition, a certain amount of repair work seems to have been turned out from his yards. A conservative
estimate of his new production, based mainly on the certificates of ship registry, would be 17 vessels having an aggregate of 4,470 tons,
built between 1798 and 1812 inclusive. The actual launchings may have exceeded these figures considerably since certificates do not always
fully identify builders and no other satisfactory source exists. As with the bulk of the tonnage built in British America in the century
after the American revolution, Munn’s ships and brigs were constructed for the British market. His known production indicates that he built
primarily on his own account, or under contract with a British agent, an example of the latter arrangement being an 1807 agreement with
ohn Drysdale for construction of a 435-ton ship. Since contract building appears to have involved a flow of capital from the future owner
to the builder at specified periods during construction, Munn’s registration of ten vessels in his own name testifies to his strong financial
position; he possessed, or had access to, sufficient capital to avoid the dependence usually imposed by contract construction. The source of the capital with which he established operations is unknown; presumably he drew from his family network, but it seems a safe assumption that much of the subsequent finance was generated from sales.

Alexander was one of at least five contemporary shipbuilding Munns, four of whom established themselves in Lower Canada and were probably
of the same family. The fifth, Alexander’s brother, James, was a shipbuilder at Troon, Scotland, in 1800 when, following the death of their
father, Alexander gave him power of attorney to look after his shipping interests in Scotland. He may have been the same James Munn,
shipbuilder, located at Irvine in 1803 and mentioned in the correspondence of John Scott and Sons, a shipbuilding firm of Greenock, Scotland,
and Saint John, N.B.; he was one of the first steamship builders on the Clyde. A John Munn, who may have been Alexander’s brother, began building at Quebec as early as the fall of 1797, and within a few years he had brought his young son John* into partnership to run a shipyard in the faubourg Saint-Roch, the area of the port, bordering the Rivière Saint-Charles, which later in the century was to have the largest concentration of shipbuilding in British America. David Munn, who may also have been Alexander’s brother, operated a shipyard next to Molson’s Brewery in the Montreal suburb of Sainte-Marie from 1805 to about 1820, and much of his construction may have been financed by the Greenock merchant Robert Hunter, with whom he registered 14 of 17 vessels, totalling 4,916 tons. David also had business interests at Quebec; in 1812 he guaranteed the performance of John Munn and Son in a contract to build a ship for a London merchant. The same year he was one of two shipbuilders who valued the vessels in Alexander’s estate, and two years later he rented Alexander’s shipyard from the latter’s widow.

Given the paucity of evidence, it is difficult to trace in detail the operations of the early colonial shipyards and the social formations which developed from them, not least in the instance of Alexander Munn. Nevertheless, the general outline is sufficiently clear to allow assertion that the shipyard represented a vanguard stage in colonial productive enterprise in terms of unit size, division of labour, rhythm of employment, control of materials, labour discipline, and capital requirements. Similarly, shipbuilders may be seen as a new class of entrepreneurs in the colonial setting, a variety of manufacturer as different from the contemporary master artisan as from the industrial capitalist who followed him. If only broad generalizations can be made about the work and financial structures of Munn’s shipyard operation – principally from the size of vessels constructed (of those registered, between 119 arid 469 tons) – there are a few precise indications of his own economic and social status. The rents for his shipyard site at the King’s Wharf amounted to nearly £400 annually by about 1800, and in 1806 he paid the bankrupt estate of the London
shipbuilders William and John Beatson £3,050 for the shipyard at Anse des Mères. In 1812 an inventory of his movable property
(but not of the land, buildings, or cash) indicated that effects in his “Yard & Stores” were worth £1,055; as well, a sloop afloat was valued
at £300, a new brig, the James, at £2,700, and a new ship on the blocks, the Diana, at £4,000. In his marriage agreement in 1797
Alexander promised Agnes £300 on his death. His estate, for which she was administratrix, did indeed leave her well established.
She lived on in a newly built, substantial stone house, employing a manservant for at least one year at a salary of £20. The shipyard was
subsequently leased on an annual basis to various individuals, including David and John Munn, and finally sold in 1839 to James Bell Forsyth*
for £6,250.

Munn’s only evident sally into a public position took place around 1807 when he became acting surveying officer of the port. Certainly he was
a privileged member of Quebec society, enjoying advantages that clearly stemmed from being a shipbuilder. In addition to trips to Britain,
there are signs of gracious living in the inventory of his estate: two calèches and three carrioles; a lady’s side-saddle; and a piano. Also,
for the education of the children, Munn had employed a tutor who lived in. These luxuries were beyond the reach of his employees;
one of his apprentices, for example, was engaged in 1807 for but £8 per year plus meat, drink, and lodging. There can be little doubt that
they were also beyond the resources of master craftsmen, then the typical entrepreneurs of production outside shipbuilding in the
pre-industrial economy of British America.
 
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