The Black Pearl

as Mike stated in post #158

we are getting a lot of fan mail about this topic and we will be getting around to answering it.

There are a lot of questions on copyright and IP theft etc. people want to know the truth and not a twisted made up version.

I state here I am not qualified to comment on such issues, However we do have someone that is and we will present to all of you the truth and nothing but the truth.

while that is being done i am off down a different road on actually building a model of the Black Pearl.
 
Hey guys,

There must be someone other than ZHL making Black Pearl's. A rather cheap knockoff too, I received mine yesterday and just took a quick look. Lots of ply sheets, plenty wood, but no plans/instructions and some costume jewlery anchors. Yet it sports turned brass cannons and some other nice details. Its a kind of head scratcher, extreme cheap to not bad..... concidering. There is no name on the box, just a sku number and I doubt that'll point me anywhere when I get a chance to look it up.

Heres 2 quick shots of the hardware and an anchor. This kit came from Bejing, China via Ebay.

Clair

Edit: Cant speel good

1592935483283.temp.jpg0623201403.jpg​
 
Oh, sorry about the horrible photo's, my camera lens on my phone got damaged during an auto repair recently. Something hit it just right to dent the clear plastic inwards right at the arpiture :/
 
Hello Clair. Thank you for sharing your pictures. I can definitely tell you the parts in the picture you shared did not come from any ZHL kit of the Black Pearl. Beyond that we really cannot comment on the origins. We would be happy to research it if you could share information such as the link where you ordered it from, vendor name, part number, sku number.... you say there are no instructions? I am curious how you came across this product and what made you decide to purchase it? I would love to read the product description. Feel free to PM me any additional information if you don't want to share publicly. From the look of the parts I am guessing this might be more of a souvenir or toy assembly product?? More info please!!

Thanks!!!!
 
Hi Mike, it was a total impulse buy hoping to score a good deal on a good kit. I knew better and should have saved up for the ZHL but I gambled... House won. I can still use it to teach my oldest son the basics as everything is there, but I want the ZHL lol.

www.ebay.com

32 Inch Ship Assembly Model DIY Kits Wooden Sailing Boats Decoration Toy DIY | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 32 Inch Ship Assembly Model DIY Kits Wooden Sailing Boats Decoration Toy DIY at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

Now I know a couple guys from SOS here are somewhat local to me, so if they'd like to inspect the kit for themselves Im more than happy to accomadate :)
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
ok I went back to post #73 and got it straight the DIY in this is actually Do It Yourself and not a DIY Model company
so there are different versions of the Black Pearl which you state as original designs
All Scenario Version is a ZHL design that came out in 2016

All Scenario Version: 2016 - 2020. KL15. Plank on Bulkhead design. All original.
Click to expand...

Well... if we are going to get into it, lets. I was going to stay out of this as I thought it would go in a different direction. It seems we are veering back on the who copied who course. So... I offer some confirmations and follow with questions. ZHL has different versions of the Black Pearl, that is agreed. Their "original version" is different from their "All Scenario" version. Distinctly different and different again from their "Golden Version." Hachette/Amati released their version in 2011, while ZHL released their "All Scenario" version in 2017.

So how is it that ZHL came to these designs all on their own, and that they should be exactly the same as the Watton/Amati/Hachette design? It appears to me, that ZHL perfected their versions of this build by borrowing (stealing) designs from others. While the ZHL kit may be different in materials, detail, etc - the design is the same. Like buying a Ford, painting it, adding a badge and calling it a Chevy.

I offer the below examples, collected on my own and ask how one might explain this. All this is taken from unboxing videos of each kit:

The below shows comparison of frame pieces that are clearly the same.
Untitled_Artwork 3.jpg

The below example shows two cut layouts of a keel piece that is most certainly the same design.
Untitled_Artwork 2.jpg

The below is a ham-fisted digital cutout of those same keels pieced together for comparison. These are taken from video, so try to overlook the distortion. I include a video of the assembly to ensure I did not manipulate these to fit. They are essentially the same. Minor changes are evident to size and width of frame material and notches but no one would call this an original design, despite ZHL's claim otherwise. ZHL clearly reoriented their placement and adjusted the assembly to fit their material and likely to fit their laser cutter:
Untitled_Artwork.jpg

What I dont understand is how anyone can say this isn't a copied design. No prior ZHL kit uses this design, until after it debuts under the Hachette/Amati label. For the sake of argument, I dont really see whats to be gained or lost from confirming this. The only person complaining was the designer himself, and he has opted not to participate or has judged it futile to argue his case here. The others complain loudly, and with much enthusiasm (as we all know). In my mind, we all know perfectly well who is complaining - they just didnt make the list.

The copyright/licensing/trademark debate is boring and irrelevant unless you are 1: An expert in this field or 2: Actively involved in some kind of litigation on the issue. Since none of us are either of these, why belabor what is clearly a case of one company "borrowing" the work of another? They did it, and we can accept it and carry on or we can tie ourselves up in endless debate to shore up our own denial that we readily and happily buy superior products (even if they are stolen). Why are we dancing around this very compelling evidence (which I presented earlier in this thread) that at least one ZHL design is a copy and/or stolen from Hachette/Watton/Amati.

Please dont delete this, I mean this not as a criticism but as devil's advocate - to enrich the conversation and get us all thinking. Lets hash it out.

View attachment Untitled_Artwork.mp4
 
Ill add as a follow-up - this is just the tip of the iceberg. There is plenty of readily available evidence that one could collect on one's own to come to similar conclusions about other kits, of other ships from the same maker. Right or wrong, or free market or not the very basic fact remains and is supported by simple comparison. Ive built quite a few kits, and I dont remember two that had such obvious similarities - let alone two separated by nearly a decade and two continents. Coincidence? I think not.
 
I think you have a point Ophotn
yup looks to me the same and I say so what not my problem if you don't like the "All Scenario" version. then buy the "original version". or don't buy either.

the bottom line it is not up to me to tell you what to buy or not to buy.

There is plenty of readily available evidence that one could collect on one's own to come to similar conclusions about other kits,

this is not about other kits this is a blog on the black pearl
 
The copyright/licensing/trademark debate is boring and irrelevant unless you are 1: An expert in this field or 2: Actively involved in some kind of litigation on the issue.

oh boy! you hit it square on the head stop grinding that ax and let it go all ready no one seems to care.
but it went this far might as well finish it with what Disney has to say. Maybe finally lay it to rest.
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
There is plenty of readily available evidence that one could collect on one's own to come to similar conclusions about other kits,
Click to expand...
Agreed. This is not about other kits. I was simply mentioning that this is part of a pattern. As well, I only make the point about the ZHL Black Pearl because the conversation seemed to overlook this fact while simultaneously arguing that copying of designs did not happen, when in fact it did.

I'll also accept that it is not up to any of us to tell others what to do. I do think, however, that it is important to discuss it openly and fairly if we are going to discuss it at all.
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
might as well finish it with what Disney has to say
Click to expand...
I honestly dont give two dead jacktars what Disney has to say about it. They are already gazillionaires. They own Black Pearl and could shut everyone down if they wanted to. The fact that they likely make 4x more money selling Pirates of the Caribean socks then they have lost on Black Pearl ship model liscensing should help us all realize the silliness of all this. No offense to you guys doing all the research - but what questions are you trying to answer? I wish some of the PM questions could be shared so we could all see whats being discussed or what people are curious about. To me, it all seems like common sense...
 
I honestly dont give two dead jacktars what Disney has to say about it. They are already gazillionaires. They own Black Pearl and could shut everyone down if they wanted to.

but they didn't and they don't shut it all down there must be a reason maybe because there never was IP property stolen and it is all fake news, lies and propaganda

I just don't care one way or the other

been down this road and it ends in quick sand a quagmire of confusion that goes no where.

I wish some of the PM questions could be shared so we could all see what's being discussed or what people are curious about.

model ship builders want to know what all the fuss is about and the banning of people and the mud slinging and name calling and the harassing's and the bulling and all the propaganda and lies everyone wants it to go away and we tried to just ignore it but it just does not stop.

and it leaks into this topic and other topics and on and on and on and on and on it goes

I get it Ophotn but will we shut down the thread because some nut case is bent out of shape? not a chance of that.

and actually like you sad you don't give two dead jacktars what Disney has to say but to set the record straight is the goal.
 
so lets stop this and go on to what we found out in research and continue with the build log of the first and original model of the Black Pearl
 
As well, I only make the point about the ZHL Black Pearl because the conversation seemed to overlook this fact while simultaneously arguing that copying of designs did not happen, when in fact it did.

to be fare I see what you see and I do not want to gloss over or over look or be bias toward one way or the other. Things did happen i can not pass judgement i just recognize it.

maybe the Hachette design copied the original ZHL design and then ZHL copied back the Hachette design and back and forth it goes
don't step in the quick sand. We just don't know what went on or what goes on. One thing and only one thing is for sure ZHL was the first to come up with a kit design of the Black Pearl.
Beyond that no one cares

so now that we mucked up the topic maybe do a little editing and get rid of all this garbage
 
ok I was going to sit down tonight and edit and clean up the trash including mine.

but I will use the time and be constructive and translate more of the build log of the first and original Black Pearl model

but I got you point

but we still need to set the record straight
 
I think that the whole thread needs to be kept as is also. The point of the whole thing is to discover the Black Pearl - warts and all. If some get offended - too bad. At the very least we must all agree to disagree at some point and let the squabbling go by the way-side. This is a facinating thread and appears to be of interest to a great many people. More on the scratch build please.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top